Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VI | Marner Reportedly Turns Down 8 Year Term

[Suntouchable13]

maybe but Penguins pulled it off with Crosby Malkin and Kessel. can leafs do it with Matty JT and Willy? time will tell.

Crosby is a generational talent, though. JT and AM are nowhere near Crosby's level. I would also take Malkin over JT. It's not a slight against JT either.

 

[phillipmike]

How do you know this?

Couldn't they offer-sheet him to just under the 4 1st round pick compensation limit?

They could and the Leafs match and would pay him 10.5M or less a year.

Rumor is Mitch wants 11M+ (what Matthews got) so Mitch has no incentive to sign an offer sheet at 10.5M or less. Mitch has no leverage, he is in a lose-lose.

 

[jmichael7753]

like an arizona or nj? I wouldn't mind that.

I see you premise here, but if Arizona were to Offersheet Marner, that would likely be the piece that puts them over the top into the playoff picture, so it would be 4 late teen, early 20s first, is that still worth it to you all?

 

[Notsince67]

Logically, if he wasn't asking for that much it would be done by now. Leafs are probably very comfortable with a 10x8 contract.

Yeah it doesn't work that way. A 10.5 x 6 is 1.1MM lower than Matthews with one extra UFA year. And yet you maintain the negotiation is Marners fault. Pay the man and move on

 

[Suntouchable13]

Yeah it doesn't work that way. A 10.5 x 6 is 1.1MM lower than Matthews with one extra UFA year. And yet you maintain the negotiation is Marners fault. Pay the man and move on

It's a horrible deal for Toronto, sorry. 10x8 or 11x8. 10.5x6 he can take a hike. You're not going to win with these guys making that much money. They are no where near Crosby/Malkin level. Sorry.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Crosby is a generational talent, though. JT and AM are nowhere near Crosby's level. I would also take Malkin over JT. It's not a slight against JT either.

Totally agreed i was talking about CAP. There 3 guys >>>>>>>>> our 3 guys.

 

[ShaneFalco]

They could and the Leafs match and would pay him 10.5M or less a year.

Rumor is Mitch wants 11M+ (what Matthews got) so Mitch has no incentive to sign an offer sheet at 10.5M or less. Mitch has no leverage, he is in a lose-lose.

And many fans have soured on him

 

[Suntouchable13]

Totally agreed i was talking about CAP. There 3 guys >>>>>>>>> our 3 guys.

I meant that you could win with those guys taking up so much of the cap because they are that good. When our guys are nowhere near that, you can not win when they make this much dough.

 

[Apotheosis]

I am so glad I have stayed off of HF the last little while to not keep up with the Marner crap. Such unneeded stress. His dad is an ass and he needs to prove where his loyalties lie.

 

[Mess]

Yeah so Dreger is saying Marner is not asking for 11 and the last clickbate was that there was a feeing that Marner would only get 11 if he signed for 8 so I guess it means that Marner is asking for 11 right

Marner wants $11 mil AAV on an 5 year deal and Leafs want 8 years in order to be willing to pay $11 mil AAV.

The first is $55 mil / 5 years = $11 mil AAV = ** Marner's position ** Surrenders 1 X UFA year.

The second $88 mil / 8 years = $11 mil AAV = ** Dubas' position ** Surrenders 4 X UFA years.

Both contracts are worth $11 mil AAV that is not the issue its the term that is the disagreement.

 

[dubey]

I, for one, welcome our 4 potential first round picks

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I am so glad I have stayed off of HF the last little while to not keep up with the Marner crap. Such unneeded stress. His dad is an ass and he needs to prove where his loyalties lie.

There is no need to get into this really. You put so much into your kid in GTHL that it kinda happens to most parents. But Paul once you cut through the drama crap is ok. It is hard to cut a good path forward for your kid in GTHL so many *hole coaches and people out there backstabbing you it is kinda disgusting looking back.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Sometimes you have to take a hard stance. 11x8 (or whatever it is) or see ya. Unfortunately, it has to be with Mitch because we already have so much money allocated to other players. No way I am caving in, if I am Dubas, to a 11x6 contract. That's unacceptable.

 

[Duke Silver]

Marner wants $11 mil AAV on an 5 year deal and Leafs want 8 years in order to be willing to pay $11 mil AAV.

The first is $55 mil / 5 years = $11 mil AAV = ** Marner's position ** Surrenders 1 X UFA year.

The second $88 mil / 8 years = $11 mil AAV = ** Dubas' position ** Surrenders 4 X UFA years.

Both contracts are worth $11 mil AAV that is not the issue its the term that is the disagreement.

Stop pushing this idea that the Leafs want 8 years in order to go to $11M AAV.

Elliotte Friedman said the Leafs would only go to a high number, LIKE $11M, on a long-term deal. It's complete and total speculation on his part.

He did not say "the Leafs have offered Marner an 8x11 contract" nor did he say the Leafs were comfortable with 11m AAV on any length of contract.

 

[Shayne Corsi]

So Nylander sits out one year, demands a trade, doesn’t get it? He has the leverage of signing in Europe.

I don't consider this very strong leverage, given the massive gulf in present and future earning potential between playing in Europe vs the NHL.

And offer sheets are rare, not illegal.

I absolutely never claimed they were illegal - this is something entirely concocted. I implied they were extremely rare, which they are (30 or so in the history of the NHL according to Wikipedia). Implausible =/= Impossible.

You on one hand suggest sitting a player the entire season to play hardball, which has occurred maybe twice in the thousands of thousands of contracts signed in the NHL, is perfectly reasonable. Yet an offer sheet which has occurred tenfold more frequently is implausible.
That is very disingenuous reasoning.

Again, this is disingenuous. You're creating a false equivalence by, amongst other things, conflating the distinct concepts LIKELY and COMMON. I am talking from the perspective of Dubas and, in particular, about what I think Dubas should have done during the negotiations; and you are talking about what you think Dubas was worried about vis-a-vis the particular approach that I advocated for. So it's completely disingenuous to then turn around and say, well, sitting a player has historically happened less often than an offer sheet being signed, ergo your scenario is more implausible than mine. For one, if we qualify offer sheet with something to the effect of high value and therefore high compensation offer sheet, the 30 odd offer sheets in the history of the NHL get whittled down significantly further. But, really, the main issue is that you're implying it's less likely in this context--which is strictly false--when you actually mean it's less common. Again, these are two different concepts. I advocated for an approach that Dubas had a 100% likelihood of successfully enacting if he had chosen to, and you're claiming that he didn't do so because he was worried about an eventuality that had a negligible likelihood of occurring thereafter (particularly given the context). That is my argument. That a player sitting the entire season is historically less common than an offer sheet being signed is largely irrelevant.

And you suggested that $6M was a reasonable contract for Nylander which has no support in terms of inflation adjusted comparable contracts.

First, I said "closer to 6mm," not 6mm. But, in retrospect, I regret saying even that, because it has given you the opportunity to fixate one what is an insubstantial element of my position. I haven't recently looked at the numbers in depth (though I did at the time), but it doesn't really prejudice my broader position to concede this point in the interim, so I will.

 

[Leafsman]

Don't want to overreact but if Marner steps foot in another team's front office, we should be pulling his citizenship, then packing up all his shit and mailing it to whatever city he visited.

Then when he tries to re-enter the country, we tell him the border's closed.

I'm starting to get a whiff of "Muskoka Five" with a few of these players, mainly Nylander and Marner. If you value getting overpaid over winning then good-writtens!

 

[Notsince67]

Marner wants $11 mil AAV on an 5 year deal and Leafs want 8 years in order to be willing to pay $11 mil AAV.

The first is $55 mil / 5 years = $11 mil AAV = ** Marner's position ** Surrenders 1 X UFA year.

The second $88 mil / 8 years = $11 mil AAV = ** Dubas' position ** Surrenders 4 X UFA years.

Both contracts are worth $11 mil AAV that is not the issue its the term that is the disagreement.

Not sure how you read that from:
I believe the parameters of an extension with Leafs have been discussed. $11 mil or more not part of discussions.

 

[nuck]

Mods can't we just have a single Marner thread?

 

[Mess]

Mods can't we just have a single Marner thread?

What other Marner thread are you referring to outside of this one?

 

[ShaneFalco]

I'm hearing Marner's comparable is now Kawhi Leonard

 

[Trapper]

What’s the deal with these guys not wanting to commit 8 years?
McDavid did it. Draisaitl did it.

Sorry but why should any player on this team not be available in trade. There is no loyalty anymore.

 

[ShaneFalco]

What’s the deal with these guys not wanting to commit 8 years?
McDavid did it. Draisaitl did it.

Sorry but why should any player on this team not be available in trade. There is no loyalty anymore.

None! Local boy, bleeds blue and white, was a Leaf fan growing up.....all meaningless now

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

What’s the deal with these guys not wanting to commit 8 years?
McDavid did it. Draisaitl did it.

Sorry but why should any player on this team not be available in trade. There is no loyalty anymore.

I think part of it is that the NHL is about to sign a new TV deal in the next few years. They don't want to be locked into a team friendly deal when the cap increases based on it.

 

[Duffman955]

I'm hearing Marner's comparable is now Kawhi Leonard

Kawhi comparable would be Ovechkin

Marner comparable would be Lillard

 

[Bomber0104]

They could and the Leafs match and would pay him 10.5M or less a year.

Rumor is Mitch wants 11M+ (what Matthews got) so Mitch has no incentive to sign an offer sheet at 10.5M or less. Mitch has no leverage, he is in a lose-lose.

$10.5M is anything but a loss for Marner.

He'd be the highest paid winger, no?