Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VI | Marner Reportedly Turns Down 8 Year Term

[Leafidelity]

I, for one, welcome our 4 potential first round picks

8 first round picks in 4 years is a pretty good way to keep the pipeline of cheap talent coming.

 

[supermann_98]

My blood is already boiling over Marner/his dad/his agent and their asinine threats ... to the point where I want my favourite Leaf traded because he’s being such a greedy little prick.

Where is the loyalty? I understand Nylander and Matthews valuing cash over everything else because they aren’t from here, but this guy is a hometown boy who grew up cheering for the leafs and idolizing them.

Instead of taking a moderate hometown discount, he wants more (much more) than the league MVP who outscored him by 40 points

 

[Notsince67]

What’s the deal with these guys not wanting to commit 8 years?
McDavid did it. Draisaitl did it.

Sorry but why should any player on this team not be available in trade. There is no loyalty anymore.

leafs suck at long term deals

 

[supermann_98]

8 first round picks in 4 years is a pretty good way to keep the pipeline of cheap talent coming.

And also a good way of showing other players the Leafs won’t be bent over a barrel in RFA negotiations ..... (anymore at least).

 

[Leafidelity]

I'm hearing Marner's comparable is now Kawhi Leonard

Paul Marner is furious Kawhi Leonard is winning that poll

 

[TrueTT]

I, for one, welcome our 4 potential first round picks

Yup. Use the cap savings to resign Kapanen and add another top-6 winger like Zuccarello.

Hyman-Tavares-Zuccarello
Kapanen-Matthews-Nylander

 

[TrueTT]

What’s the deal with these guys not wanting to commit 8 years?
McDavid did it. Draisaitl did it.

Sorry but why should any player on this team not be available in trade. There is no loyalty anymore.

To be fair, McDavid and Draisaitl did so after they went to game 7 of the second round after not even sniffing the playoffs their first year. They were probably convinced they'd be contending from 2018 onward based on trend data.

I highly doubt they would do such a thing if the same offer were presented today.

Also, I think Babcock is a big factor. It's a shame we let the Panthers snag Q.

 

[Pilky01]

Also, I think Babcock is a big factor. It's a shame we let the Panthers snag Q.

Yep.

If the players were enjoying their time in the Leafs dressing room, if they felt it was a good environment for them, they wouldn't be putting money over everything.

 

[IPS]

8 first round picks in 4 years is a pretty good way to keep the pipeline of cheap talent coming.

I'm pretty confident about it. The scouting is as good as it's ever been in the Leafs organization. If we're pulling 2 Sandin-level talents out of the draft every year Leafs are in terrific shape going forward.

 

[Mess]

Not sure how you read that from:
I believe the parameters of an extension with Leafs have been discussed. $11 mil or more not part of discussions.

1 +1 = 2 .. Its like piecing a puzzle together based on all the information going around.

Bobby Mac says Marner believes he is worth every bit as much as Matthews & We know Matthews just got $11.634 mil X 5 years.

Dreger says " Like the Matthews contract, term is a huge sticking point for Marner. Not interested in max term". & We know max term = 8 years

Elliotte Friedman said the Leafs would only go to a high number, LIKE $11M, on a long-term deal.

Every time a new "Insider" posts an update we have more of the puzzle to work with..

Dubas doesn't need to to toss out the amount he knows what Marner's asking price is, and so the 2 sides discuss term of which Marner is claiming he is not interested in "max term" and the info is suggesting Leafs are pursuing a longer deal. But until you come to an agreement on # of years in length it doesn't make sense talking dollars because that is entirely dependent on the term and how many UFA years are included.

Bob McKenzie did a good job recently covering this ..

 

[willmma]

How do you know this?

Couldn't they offer-sheet him to just under the 4 1st round pick compensation limit?

the 4 1st round pick compensation limit is based on 5 year contracts. If the offer is greater than 5 years then the total contract is divided by 5 and checked against the $10.6M limit.

That means if you offer him as little as $9M for 6 years for a total of 54M. That is recalculated to 5 years which ends up being $10.8Mx5. So 4 1st round picks is the cost.
the only way to not pay 4 1st round draft picks is to offer sheet him at less than $10.6M for 5 year term or less. (or $8.75Mx6, or $7.5Mx7)


check it out: Offer Sheet Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[v4karuna]

Why not just pay Marner what he wants? (he is arguably our best player)

I don't get why people are mad at Marner, and some people want him out if he doesn't sign a team friendly deal..

Trader the others to make space, if necessary.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Why not just pay Marner what he wants? (he is arguably our best player)

I don't get why people are mad at Marner, and some people want him out if he doesn't sign a team friendly deal..

Trader the others to make space, if necessary.

But why should we sign him to a player friendly deal? 10.5x8 or 11x8, or no deal.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Yep.

If the players were enjoying their time in the Leafs dressing room, if they felt it was a good environment for them, they wouldn't be putting money over everything.

All old school coaches like Babs never make friends with players. Babs has issues with parents who coach their kids. Hint hint hint Willy and Mitch. But that ship already sailed. unless of course hard feelings are still there.

 

[indigobuffalo]

I don't consider this very strong leverage, given the massive gulf in present and future earning potential between playing in Europe vs the NHL.



I absolutely never claimed they were illegal - this is something entirely concocted. I implied they were extremely rare, which they are (30 or so in the history of the NHL according to Wikipedia). Implausible =/= Impossible.



Again, this is disingenuous. You're creating a false equivalence by, amongst other things, conflating the distinct concepts LIKELY and COMMON. I am talking from the perspective of Dubas and, in particular, about what I think Dubas should have done during the negotiations; and you are talking about what you think Dubas was worried about vis-a-vis the particular approach that I advocated for. So it's completely disingenuous to then turn around and say, well, sitting a player has historically happened less often than an offer sheet being signed, ergo your scenario is more implausible than mine. For one, if we qualify offer sheet with something to the effect of high value and therefore high compensation offer sheet, the 30 odd offer sheets in the history of the NHL get whittled down significantly further. But, really, the main issue is that you're implying it's less likely in this context--which is strictly false--when you actually mean it's less common. Again, these are two different concepts. I advocated for an approach that Dubas had a 100% likelihood of successfully enacting if he had chosen to, and you're claiming that he didn't do so because he was worried about an eventuality that had a negligible likelihood of occurring thereafter (particularly given the context). That is my argument. That a player sitting the entire season is historically less common than an offer sheet being signed is largely irrelevant.



First, I said "closer to 6mm," not 6mm. But, in retrospect, I regret saying even that, because it has given you the opportunity to fixate one what is an insubstantial element of my position. I haven't recently looked at the numbers in depth (though I did at the time), but it doesn't really prejudice my broader position to concede this point in the interim, so I will.

I’m sorry, there was a 100% likelihood of success in what?

What I understood your meaning there was that it was guaranteed that sitting Nylander for a year would result in him accepting a contract with a lower AAV.

This confuses me because I cannot see how you arrive at that conclusion.

Or else you were making some other point.

I’ll wait for clarification.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Why not just pay Marner what he wants? (he is arguably our best player)

I don't get why people are mad at Marner, and some people want him out if he doesn't sign a team friendly deal..

Trader the others to make space, if necessary.

He is our 3rd best player. Tavares and Matty are much better players. He may look flashier at times.

 

[v4karuna]

But why should we sign him to a player friendly deal? 10.5x8 or 11x8, or no deal.

Because the player friendly deal is not that bad - 11 x 5 is not bad. This will give leafs a solid 5 year window to contend. Who cares what happens 5+ years from now, that's a lonnng time away and I don't want to stress out thinking about it.

 

[TMLS]

I don't blame him. No one wants to play for that dinosaur Babcock....unless you some washed or talent less scrub.

 

[Leafidelity]

Why not just pay Marner what he wants? (he is arguably our best player)

I don't get why people are mad at Marner, and some people want him out if he doesn't sign a team friendly deal..

Trader the others to make space, if necessary.

You don't get why people are angry that he won't take a contract to be the highest paid winger in NHL history for 8 years?

 

[Lenovs]

I can't believe all these numbers. three first round exits in a row and we pay these guys multiple cup winners? no way we're contending anything with three forwards eating up 40+% of the cap.

if marner won't sign max term but still wants to make #34 money let the isles or rangers offersheet him and get a top 4 rhd. i'm not gonna miss him.

 

[willmma]

Logically, if he wasn't asking for that much it would be done by now. Leafs are probably very comfortable with a 10x8 contract.

It's not even July yet. It's too soon to reach this conclusion. Not a single high level RFA signed yet.

I either they're all asking for 11x8 or the process actually takes bit more time.

 

[The CyNick]

Yup. Use the cap savings to resign Kapanen and add another top-6 winger like Zuccarello.

Hyman-Tavares-Zuccarello
Kapanen-Matthews-Nylander

Goal to become one line team?

 

[TrueTT]

Dubas should bring him a #16 home sweater with the C on the right shoulder, and just say "c'mon Mitch you know you want it, lets' do it!"

problem, as they say, solved!

Great message we'd be sending to the hockey world. Strong-arm us in contract talks and you'll be rewarded with the C on your jersey.

 

[nuck]

Why not just pay Marner what he wants? (he is arguably our best player)

I don't get why people are mad at Marner, and some people want him out if he doesn't sign a team friendly deal..

Trader the others to make space, if necessary.

Mitch?

 

[Hockey Crazy]

My blood is already boiling over Marner/his dad/his agent and their asinine threats ... to the point where I want my favourite Leaf traded because he’s being such a greedy little prick.

Where is the loyalty? I understand Nylander and Matthews valuing cash over everything else because they aren’t from here, but this guy is a hometown boy who grew up cheering for the leafs and idolizing them.

Instead of taking a moderate hometown discount, he wants more (much more) than the league MVP who outscored him by 40 points

Relax, it's all speculation at this point. Also why does every players dad instantly get targeted during negotiations?