Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VI | Marner Reportedly Turns Down 8 Year Term

[Terrible GM]

Mariners camp is pissing me off with these stupid media leaks

Whoever running that camp is a classless prick. Especially when criticizing Matthew's contract

I know they totally leaked the Edwin Encarnacion trade..

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I will reserve opinion on Marner until it shakes out. Personally i believe 8@$10,000,000 is the number that is reasonable.

 

[The CyNick]

No trading Marner is what makes sense. Trading a whole pile of players (probably without any luck as in the case with Marleau) so you can ridiculously overpay one player makes zero sense.

We've overpaid for Nylander and matthews. We are where we are.

This is not going to get any better going forward.

Muzzin will want $7M next summer

Freddy will be looking at $10M+ in a couple years

Rielly will looking at $13M+ by the time he's up.

Kadri will want to get every dollar he can because he's been on a team friendly deal. Likely ends up at $7M when he's up.

Then if Kap or AJ continue to progress they will be looking at $6-7M

Dermott will be looking for $5-6M

This team will constantly be throwing guys overboard year after year. Need those 1st round picks to be home runs. At least when we have them.

 

[93LEAFS]

Mariners camp is pissing me off with these stupid media leaks

Whoever running that camp is a classless prick. Especially when criticizing Matthew's contract

Seems everything is leaking now though. Seems both sides are playing the media game. Big difference from Lou.

 

[Marshy]

The league needs to take a stand here. These guys want to be paid like there's no salary cap. Should have stayed on the picket line longer then when you had the chance. You agreed to the cap system but now everyone wants to be overpaid. You can't even trade a player who wants to be overpaid ....why would a team trade good assets to overpay one of these kids? Make an example of them now or regret it later.

 

[Leaf4Life]

@MyBudJT The other thread got closed so I'll reply here.

I don't know how you came up with your Boston numbers but they spent just under $28M on their top 4 guys (compared to potentially $40M+ for us). Boston had $50M for the rest of their roster. Plus that included their 5th highest paid player, Marchand, who only had $6M cap hit! Good luck finding that kind of player vs. cap hit moving forward.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The league needs to take a stand here. These guys want to be paid like there's no salary cap. Should have stayed on the picket line longer then when you had the chance. You agreed to the cap system but now everyone wants to be overpaid. You can't even trade a player who wants to be overpaid ....why would a team trade good assets to overpay one of these kids? Make an example of them now or regret it later.

Another good reason why a hard CAP always fails. You can never be great. It is designed like that.

 

[ACC1224]

The league needs to take a stand here. These guys want to be paid like there's no salary cap. Should have stayed on the picket line longer then when you had the chance. You agreed to the cap system but now everyone wants to be overpaid. You can't even trade a player who wants to be overpaid ....why would a team trade good assets to overpay one of these kids? Make an example of them now or regret it later.

Picket line?

 

[Mad hatter]

Matthews contract, which was to much I think, is what is causing the Marner contract problems I’d assume. He feels he’s as good as Matthews and should be paid as such. Problem for Mitch is Matthews is a centre and probably the best goal scorer in the NHL so unfortunately we’ve got to pay for that.

 

[Trapper]

With our cap structure, it can fit!

A] Matthews @11.634M
B] Tavares @ 11M
C] Marner @11M
D] Nylander @ 6.963M

1) 6M (Acquisition)
2) 5M (Andersen)
3) 5M (Rielly)
4) 4.5M (Kadri)
5) 4M (Muzzin)
6) 2.25 (Hyman)
7) 2.75M (Acquisition)
8) 1.6M (Acquisition)

For the top 12 players, we'd spend ~ 71.75M Leaving us with ~10M to sign the bottom 11 players.

9) 1.5M (Acquisition)
10) 1.25M (Acquisition)
11) 0.925 (Mikheyev)
12) 0.925 (Kivihalme/Korshkov/Engvall)
13) 0.863 (Dermott/Liljegren)
14) 0.842 (Bracco)
15) 0.775 (Moore)
16) 0.775 (Petan)
17) 0.750 (Rosen)
18) 0.750 (Sparks/Back-up)
19) 0.675 (Gauthier/Holl)

These 19 players + Matthews + Marner + Nylander + Tavares = ~ 81M in cap space.


Fill in the blanks as you see fit:

_______- Tavares - Marner
Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Mikheyev/Petan - Kadri - Bracco/Moore
Mikheyev/Petan - _______ - Bracco/Moore
Gauthier

Rielly - ________
Muzzin - ________
Dermott - Rosen
Kivihalme, Holl

Andersen
_______

Have approximately 14.5 M to fill those holes.

Don’t worry you will get what you want.
Just don’t blame the other 75% of the team if/when they can’t keep up.
Doubtful you get too many Nylander/Marner stats out of the cheap replacements.

 

[Joey Hoser]

The league needs to take a stand here. These guys want to be paid like there's no salary cap. Should have stayed on the picket line longer then when you had the chance. You agreed to the cap system but now everyone wants to be overpaid. You can't even trade a player who wants to be overpaid ....why would a team trade good assets to overpay one of these kids? Make an example of them now or regret it later.

The players don't even utilize the upper 15-20% of the payscale available to them.

 

[glue]

I don't hate on Marner for sticking it to the Leafs anymore then Nylander or Matthews. But ultimately Dubas's job is to make the best decisions for the 'team'. Marner ultimately could have signed sooner to try and get a bigger piece of the pie or he can even now accept that the Cap situation will make it very difficult for the Leafs to ice a Stanley Cup contender and take less. Dubas simply can't afford to pay more then a certain amount at this point even if he did give in a little to Nylander and Matthews. At this point if Marner is traded, offer sheeted, etc. don't care. We need Dubas to do what's best for the Leafs and Marner can choose to do what's best for him.

 

[ACC1224]

Mariners camp is pissing me off with these stupid media leaks

Whoever running that camp is a classless prick. Especially when criticizing Matthew's contract

Why do you attribute leaks to them?
The last thing stated was after Matthews signed and they didn't leak that, they owned it.

It's not healthy to be mad about something since February, might be time to let that one go.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

There's no convincing anyone.

There's an argument for Matthews. Mitch Marner will likely get a lot more than his projection and comparables dictate as well, but William Nylander signed for less than his projection and in the same area as his comparables.

He's guilty of having a poor December and January after missing camp and the first two months. After that, his scoring and production started increasing back to normal levels.

Oh, I have a feeling with the next round of contracts coming A LOT of people are going to turn around on the Willy contract.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

yup , that horrible group he left behind on the Island collapsed without him

J. Bailey, 2017-2018: 71 points
J. Bailey, 2018-2019: 56 points

A. Lee, 2017-2018: 62 points
A. Lee, 2018-2019: 51 points

Collapsed? Nope. Trend? You betcha:

M. Marner, 2017-2018: 69 points.
M. Marner, 2018-2019: 94 points.

See it, don't see it. Your choice.

Edit: Forgot to add the one guy that stayed relatively consistent in this analysis:

J. Tavares, 2017-2018: 84 points
J. Tavares, 2018-2019: 88 points

Anyone not seeing who props up who is plain out not seeing.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Marner pretty easily but really no reason not to have both.
Tavares plays a much harder game, he won't be the same player by the time Marner hits his peak.

He was exactly the same player when Marner hit his peak last season.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Lol I guess I meant if we did decide to trade what team could entice us with assets and have the space to pay him?
ToneDog suggested the Rangers as he fits their rebuild

Fair enough and good question I’m just trying to nip the misinformation away as quickly as possible.

I think a team with young talented Defense in theory is a good partner but I do not like the idea of trading a player like Marner for a defenseman not named Werenski or Dahlin. What defensemen are actually worth a player of Marner’s calibre? Who would the Blackhawks have traded Kane for that they wouldn’t have kicked themselves over afterward? A 21yr old Karlsson, Subban, Hedman ?

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

The worst part about the deals Dubas has signed so far is the cap ceiling may be stabilizing or even trending downwards over the next few years, so it's not like they'll look great in retrospect like some of the earlier big deals of Crosby and Kane, etc. And even if the cap does trend up he didn't sign them to long enough deals, so they'll be at the dinner table again in a few years asking for more money.

 

[ULF_55]

Why do you attribute leaks to them?
The last thing stated was after Matthews signed and they didn't leak that, they owned it.

It's not healthy to be mad about something since February, might be time to let that one go.

When you have a history you have to own it.
Marner's agent says 'lowball' comments were from offseason

Agent: Marner '100 percent' not negotiating contract until end of season

Marner agent tries to walk back divisive comments following Matthews deal

 

[Mess]

Whatever number he signs him for, it will have been Shanahan approved, just like Willie and AM. KD will not be fired over the Marner handling, it did not occur in a vacuum.

That's true and it would also MLSE BOD approved.

However what happens if you sign 3 players at $11 mil and that results in missed playoffs, because the surrounding depth is simply no longer good enough to make the playoff and as a result less Cup competitive?

Signing players to contracts is really only 1/2 the equation, the GM is ultimately judged on job performance based on the teams performance in a results oriented business.

There are more than a few hockey employed people skeptical that Leafs can compete when you have 3 of the top 5-6 highest cap hit players in the game all on the same team.

There are consequences in play here by signing Marner and already having JT and AM in the top 5 AAV players and it will show up in how well the remaining depth can play when you're icing 1/2 roster at Marlie level experience or contract equivalence to be cap compliant.

 

[ACC1224]

He was exactly the same player when Marner hit his peak last season.

You expect him to be the same player for the duration of his contract?

 

[thewave]

We've overpaid for Nylander and matthews. We are where we are.

This is not going to get any better going forward.

Muzzin will want $7M next summer

Freddy will be looking at $10M+ in a couple years

Rielly will looking at $13M+ by the time he's up.

Kadri will want to get every dollar he can because he's been on a team friendly deal. Likely ends up at $7M when he's up.

Then if Kap or AJ continue to progress they will be looking at $6-7M

Dermott will be looking for $5-6M

This team will constantly be throwing guys overboard year after year. Need those 1st round picks to be home runs. At least when we have them.

They have two options...

Trade Matthews and pay Marner less than Kucherov or trade both and reset the internal cap. Once those contracts are on the books, they are on the books and everyone looks at them. There is no other solution and even firing Dubas will not change what has been done. The CBA could possibly help them out, or force them to unload one of these players.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

You expect him to be the same player for the duration of his contract?

We can only hope.

 

[Duffman955]

Why do you attribute leaks to them?
The last thing stated was after Matthews signed and they didn't leak that, they owned it.

It's not healthy to be mad about something since February, might be time to let that one go.

Lmao why the f*** would you come out and say that publicly. Never in my life have I seen a camp criticize teammates in the media.

Classless and stupid. Tells me all I need to know about the camp. I just hope these aren't Marner approved antics. If it is, he can take his talents elsewhere. No player is above the team

 

[hotpaws]

J. Bailey, 2017-2018: 71 points
J. Bailey, 2018-2019: 56 points

A. Lee, 2017-2018: 62 points
A. Lee, 2018-2019: 51 points

Collapsed? Nope. Trend? You betcha:

M. Marner, 2017-2018: 69 points.
M. Marner, 2018-2019: 94 points.

See it, don't see it. Your choice.

i guess you missed the part where the team did much better without him when the new coach installed a defense first system instead of the run and gun that inflated individual point totals but bleed goals and led the team no where

yup lucky for that scrub Marner who never produced his entire life that he got to play with JT so he could inflate his points , lol

and an islander fan could point to there team doing better without JT while we performed the same , is that a trend also ?

JT's an excellent player but i never understood the constant need to shit on all his teammates to make his light shine brighter .