Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VI | Marner Reportedly Turns Down 8 Year Term

[Advanced stats]

break the draft floor by trading him

As if that would happen. The best return would be 4 1sts if it gets to that point.

 

[ACC1224]

For me the issue is not Marner carried JT or the other way around but rather if Rantanen signs for 9mil/8yrs and Marner really goes, I don’t care, I should be paid like JT and Matthews, that’s just wrong.

Rantanen and Marner are the closest comparable you can find and personally I give the edge to Rantanen.

It's going to be interesting if that happens.
Internal comparables are what's important to Marner.

The league has gone crazy with RFA contracts.
The cap is no fun for me as a fan. It takes too much of the focus away from the actual play.

 

[Gabriel426]

Then what's the point of the cap then? If they don't enforce their rules, then anybody can be over the cap during the season and the league will not do anything? Doesn't make sense, man. The Leafs can be over the cap any time they want with no consequences?

Loss of draft picks, bad press...
But honestly, I think a Bird rule will happen sooner than later.
What I don’t understand is that, why is it easier for NBA teams to trade salary but it is close to impossible for NHL teams to do it.
Look at contracts like Perry or Dion or Loui Erickson it Lucic, if they are NBA players, teams wont force to buy them out or whatever as it is very easy for them to facilitate trades.

 

[MyBudJT]

Again, don’t complain if the guys can’t cut it.
Those that think we are fine spending half the cap on 4 forwards have zero reason to complain.

We will see what happens.
Currently our D is decimated, we are trying to unload big hurdles like Marleau to ease the burden, and we will look at moving Kadri plus whatever we have too.

Stars are fine, but you need stars at other positions as well.

Not sure what point you're getting at. You'll very rarely see me complain about low-salaried players.

 

[ULF_55]

Better players playing with better players may have better results.

Matthews line mates:

• Hyman 2nd and 3rd year player
• Nylander rookie and 2nd. year
• Johnsson rookie
• Kapanen first full year

Marner linemates:

• Bozak - veteran
• van Riemsdyk - veteran
• Kadri - veteran
• Marleau - veteran
• Hyman - 4th. year player
• Tavares - superstar veteran

Exactly, who do you think benefited more

• Marner playing with a prime aged superstar and 4th. year grinder
• Matthews playing with a rookie and a player with less than a year experience

Rhetorical ...

 

[kb]

Just for giggles.

 

[Gabriel426]

It's going to be interesting if that happens.
Internal comparables are what's important to Marner.

The league has gone crazy with RFA contracts.
The cap is no fun for me as a fan. It takes too much of the focus away from the actual play.

To me that’s the problem, all these internal comparables are just excuses for Marner to say I want more money.
Is Laine going to sign less than Schef? Or Rantanen signs less than McKinnon? Did McDavid signed slightly more than Hall? Did Horvat went I need to get pay more than Loui Eriksson bc he sucks and he is getting 6.75mil a yr?
For a kid who claims to be a lifelong Leafs fans, bleeds Blue and White... he sure is not showing that with all these internal comparables crap.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Just for giggles.

View attachment 238415

It's so obvious and right there to see yet people want to not only debate it, they want to call it silly to even discuss it.

 

[Sypher04]

It's going to be interesting if that happens.
Internal comparables are what's important to Marner.

The league has gone crazy with RFA contracts.
The cap is no fun for me as a fan. It takes too much of the focus away from the actual play.

I agree. The magnifying glass on the business side today is hurting the enjoyment to me.

 

[Havoc]

The part you misquoted and bolded instead: They hired a Jack Adams winner coming off a Stanley Cup win and lucked into a Masterson Trophy winning goalie that turned his life around and literally set records in net for a team with a storied history. I mean, did you really need me to type this?



OK so net even. Marner elevates the play of his linemates and Tavares elevates the play of his linemates. One guy's production skyrocketed and the other guy's didn't. Guess who is who?

This isn't a video game man. What kind of increase are you expecting in Tavares points? Even if you gave him Crosby it would be hard to sky rocket his production from a 84 point starting location.

Point: 66 to 92.
Pasta: 20 something to 70.
Rantanen: 30 something to mid 80's

Now Marner hitting 94.

This is what happens when you pair all stars with all stars. Big jumps are due to the pairing never existing before. For example, let's say Barzal bust and Tavares put up numbers similar to 16 / 17 (66 points). What then? It would be 66 to 88 instead of 84 to 88.

If Marner played an entire season with a no.1 C last year he probably puts up ~80 as well and this sky rocket doesn't exist.

 

[ORRFForever]

We can't fault him for squeezing every last dollar out of negotiations - even if it is disappointing.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I agree. The magnifying glass on the business side today is hurting the enjoyment to me.

Exactly. That's what the cap has done. No cap, I couldn't care less what any Leafs player is making.

 

[ACC1224]

To me that’s the problem, all these internal comparables are just excuses for Marner to say I want more money.
Is Laine going to sign less than Schef? Or Rantanen signs less than McKinnon? Did McDavid signed slightly more than Hall? Did Horvat went I need to get pay more than Loui Eriksson bc he sucks and he is getting 6.75mil a yr?
For a kid who claims to be a lifelong Leafs fans, bleeds Blue and White... he sure is not showing that with all these internal comparables crap.

Comparables since they are all signing at the same time.
If any of your examples were signing now you'd have to think they would get considerably more than they're making

 

[Trapper]

Classic Dreger. He’s had the leafs trading Kadri for the last 6 seasons. He puts it out there probably twice a year. Some day he might be correct. The insider!

Say it enough every year for most of his career and you might be right one day.

At this point the speculation is probably more warranted.
We need to sign Marner and need to overhaul the D. That money takes precedence over a 4.5 mil C no matter how good you think his contract is.

 

[Gabriel426]

Comparables since they are all signing at the same time.
If any of your examples were signing now you'd have to think they would get considerably more than they're making

So if Rantanen signs for 9mil/8yrs, is not a close comparables for Marner?

 

[Guided by Veseys]

Say it enough every year for most of his career and you might be right one day.

At this point the speculation is probably more warranted.
We need to sign Marner and need to overhaul the D. That money takes precedence over a 4.5 mil C no matter how good you think his contract is.

I suppose so but who are some decent third line centres at a lower cap hit? Nylander can’t do 3C so we can’t reduce quality down the middle too badly. Matthews or Tavares gets hurt and we would be in deep shit. When Kadri filled in at 2C last year while Matthews was hurt the team hardly missed a step. Imagine nick bonino or Ryan strome having to play as our third Center just because we want to gain a million in cap space by trading Kadri

 

[ACC1224]

So if Rantanen signs for 9mil/8yrs, is not a close comparables for Marner?

I imagine Rantanen will wait to see what Marner gets.
Marner will be comparing himself to Matthews.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I suppose so but who are some decent third line centres at a lower cap hit? Nylander can’t do 3C so we can’t reduce quality down the middle too badly. Matthews or Tavares gets hurt and we would be in deep ****. When Kadri filled in at 2C last year while Matthews was hurt the team hardly missed a step. Imagine nick bonino or Ryan strome having to play as our third Center just because we want to gain a million in cap space by trading Kadri

I don't trust Kadri anymore. Does management? We'll see.

 

[ACC1224]

Just for giggles.

View attachment 238415

There were many questions asked about that chart earlier today, perhaps I missed the answers or whoever posted it the first time was too busy giggling to respond.
Seems kind of meaningless to me as it's presented.

 

[diceman934]

Please, Dreger is being fed information by somebody in the Marner camp

Do you think he's smart enough to pull Marner going around the league and soliciting offersheets and talking about Marner being "disrespected" out of his ass do you?



So announcing the Matthews contract signing is what kicked this **** show off is it?

The next day Marner's agent was talking **** in the media and somebody is feeding very pro Marner stuff to Dreger

No bull****, are you Marner's old man?

You are so bias that that you can not even thing. Dubas stated several times that centers get paid more then others when announcing the Mathews signing taking dead aim at Marner it was such a bs moved by an idiot. That is who started this not required nonsense. Next time pay attention. And stop with the nonsense that I am his father. Look at my join date.

 

[The CyNick]

Just for giggles.

View attachment 238415

How many 5on5 minutes did Tavares and marner play together vs apart this past season?

 

[Mr Hockey]

How many 5on5 minutes did Tavares and marner play together vs apart this past season?

1060 together and 152 apart, 5vs5

 

[The CyNick]

They have two options...

Trade Matthews and pay Marner less than Kucherov or trade both and reset the internal cap. Once those contracts are on the books, they are on the books and everyone looks at them. There is no other solution and even firing Dubas will not change what has been done. The CBA could possibly help them out, or force them to unload one of these players.

Nah. They just have to gut the depth of the team and hope we churn out good players from the marlies. That's why teams like the leafs need to hold on to their 1sts like they are gold.

 

[The CyNick]

1060 together and 152 apart, 5vs5

Solid sample size to draw conclusions.

 

[Trapper]

I suppose so but who are some decent third line centres at a lower cap hit? Nylander can’t do 3C so we can’t reduce quality down the middle too badly. Matthews or Tavares gets hurt and we would be in deep ****. When Kadri filled in at 2C last year while Matthews was hurt the team hardly missed a step. Imagine nick bonino or Ryan strome having to play as our third Center just because we want to gain a million in cap space by trading Kadri

As other posters have pointed out, Nylander is too valuable to not play with Matthews/Tavares.

What we need is a 1.5 million C who is strong on the D side of the puck, can PK/face off well and has a decent GF/GA per 60 ratio.