Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VI | Marner Reportedly Turns Down 8 Year Term

[Throw More Waffles]

Kessel? The guy who was instrumental on 2 cup runs and put up 92 points a year ago? If 94 points is worth 11+ million, I'd say he's not overpaid

I think he means the kessel that the leafs were forced to retain salary on in order to trade him.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

According to CJ, Marner isn’t going to be visiting cities about offersheets due to the bad PR he’d get from it. Will still take calls thought.

CJ said talks aren’t really close right now. Thinks it gets done eventually, but the Leafs likely won’t like the number.

Lets pretend this is true..............
Who leaked it? Why on green earth would Marners camp say anything remotely close to this?
Again, IF true, a statement like this would only benefit the Leafs management
It's probably not true though

 

[TheDoldrums]

Lets pretend this is true..............
Who leaked it? Why on green earth would Marners camp say anything remotely close to this?
Again, IF true, a statement like this would only benefit the Leafs management
It's probably not true though

Outside of Mirtle, I think CJ seems to have the most inside stuff from Dubas. So yeah, I would think it's coming from the Leafs.

 

[Kiwi]

Lets pretend this is true..............
Who leaked it? Why on green earth would Marners camp say anything remotely close to this?
Again, IF true, a statement like this would only benefit the Leafs management
It's probably not true though

This looks more like a "heard it through the grapevine" type roumor rather than being a deliberate leak by somebody

If he talks to other teams and it leaks his position is going to be bloody difficult

The fan base will go crazy

 

[indigobuffalo]

If that’s true and being the highest paid winger in the league is not good enough he might be hard to trade. Also not sure they’ll have to worry about an offer sheet because if 11 million really was turned down what team would offer him more?

From the sounds of it “less is more” so $11M x 7 (offer sheet limit) is better than $11M x 8 (right’s holding club limit).

It’s $11M but eats one less year of UFA.

Still, from the sounds of it an offer sheet will likely be 5 years at $10,568,589 exactly below the limit for 4x 1st rnd pick compensation. That compensation is 2x firsts, a 2nd, and 3rd.

There are probably a few teams planning on trying to negotiate that offer sheet so probably what will happen is the most interested of those rival teams will make a deal with Dubas at some interval between those compensatory amounts, probably 2 1sts, 2 2nds and a prospect (like a Sprong or something). Especially a prospect that might be forced out of the lineup with Mitch incoming.

 

[HolyCrap]

Let him make his calls, if we get lucky he will find somebody stupid enough to give him the contract it's rumored he's demanding

Take the compensation and be done with this ****

Amen. Use the picks and free cap space along with other players moving out And fill up the missing pieces. Albeit there will be a fair few missing positions though. But it’s doable.

 

[Mr Hockey]

This looks more like a "heard it through the grapevine" type roumor rather than being a deliberate leak by somebody

If he talks to other teams and it leaks his position is going to be bloody difficult

The fan base will go crazy

He will be disowned if he did that, Marner knows it also... its all fake news

 

[The CyNick]

From the sounds of it “less is more” so $11M x 7 (offer sheet limit) is better than $11M x 8 (right’s holding club limit).

It’s $11M but eats one less year of UFA.

Still, from the sounds of it an offer sheet will likely be 5 years at $10,568,589 exactly below the limit for 4x 1st rnd pick compensation. That compensation is 2x firsts, a 2nd, and 3rd.

There are probably a few teams planning on trying to negotiate that offer sheet so probably what will happen is the most interested of those rival teams will make a deal with Dubas at some interval between those compensatory amounts, probably 2 1sts, 2 2nds and a prospect (like a Sprong or something). Especially a prospect that might be forced out of the lineup with Mitch incoming.

What a horrible outcome that would be for us.

 

[Kiwi]

He will be disowned if he did that, Marner knows it also... its all fake news

I honestly don't know what the Marner camp is up to

I'd have said that feeding Dreger information about him visiting other cities was a bloody terrible idea as well but it would seem somebody thought it was a decent idea

 

[Notsince67]

Kessel? The guy who was instrumental on 2 cup runs and put up 92 points a year ago? If 94 points is worth 11+ million, I'd say he's not overpaid

He had a career high of 82 points before the contract. before that last year it was a 64 point high. He signed at 12.44% of the cap which is 10.3MM in todays money. Any more questions?

 

[Stamkos4life]

People who defend the nylander signing in comparison to pasta love to post the numbers over their elc as some sort of proof that Will deserved that money, ignoring all sorts of other factors.

Pasta first 3 seasons:
172 gp 123 points = 0.715 ppg

Nylander first 3:
185 gp 135 points = 0.729 ppg

Okay so if ppg over their elc is the deciding factor, why do we have matthews making basically McDavid money?

McDavid first 3 seasons:
209 gp 256 points = 1.225 ppg

Matthews first 3:
212 gp 205 points = 0.966 ppg

For comparrison
Marner:
241 gp 224 points = 0.929 ppg

McDavid beat matthews by 0.259 ppg while marner was only 0.037 ppg behind auston.

So is ppg over elc really the deciding factor? Or just when certain posters want it to be?

 

[Walshy7]

He will be disowned if he did that, Marner knows it also... its all fake news

there will be a portion of the fanbase who will always blame dubas no matter what Marner does now or in the future. Make no mistake if marner leaves on an offersheet for $12M ther would for sure still be working out ways to blame dubas

 

[ToneDog]

CJ said talks aren’t really close right now. Thinks it gets done eventually, but the Leafs likely won’t like the number.

Dubas starting to remind me of Clarence Beeks in the last scene of Trading Places.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Trade him please.

11m winger is a joke.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

This looks more like a "heard it through the grapevine" type roumor rather than being a deliberate leak by somebody

If he talks to other teams and it leaks his position is going to be bloody difficult

The fan base will go crazy

Agreed.
It would also tarnish the brand. So in no way could I see anyone associated with Marner leaking such info.
On the other side, the Leafs seem to be tight lipped on almost everything. So, again, these insiders (much like I defender Nylander for) are vastly out too lunch, and only a faction of what they say ever materializes.

I know Mitch, and Paul, and no, I am not friends with any of them, but being a rink Dad you run into the same people.
I know Mitch bleeds blue and white, I know there are sour feelings with Pridham, but I 99% believe that Mitch will put his foot down and sign before crap hits the fan. Take it for what you will.

I could always change my name to Babcocks Willy....... pretty good.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Journalists are the worst. They talk and make words , but they say absolutely nothing.

Just like politicians...

 

[Superstar]

From the sounds of it “less is more” so $11M x 7 (offer sheet limit) is better than $11M x 8 (right’s holding club limit).

It’s $11M but eats one less year of UFA.

Still, from the sounds of it an offer sheet will likely be 5 years at $10,568,589 exactly below the limit for 4x 1st rnd pick compensation. That compensation is 2x firsts, a 2nd, and 3rd.

There are probably a few teams planning on trying to negotiate that offer sheet so probably what will happen is the most interested of those rival teams will make a deal with Dubas at some interval between those compensatory amounts, probably 2 1sts, 2 2nds and a prospect (like a Sprong or something). Especially a prospect that might be forced out of the lineup with Mitch incoming.

I don't see Marner signing that...he would be purposely trying to screw the Leafs and not make it any less obvious, and the Leafs would match that deal because he wants Matthews money, so 5 x $11.6 million is what Marner is looking at.

 

[Kiwi]

Agreed.
It would also tarnish the brand. So in no way could I see anyone associated with Marner leaking such info.
On the other side, the Leafs seem to be tight lipped on almost everything. So, again, these insiders (much like I defender Nylander for) are vastly out too lunch, and only a faction of what they say ever materializes.

I know Mitch, and Paul, and no, I am not friends with any of them, but being a rink Dad you run into the same people.
I know Mitch bleeds blue and white, I know there are sour feelings with Pridham, but I 99% believe that Mitch will put his foot down and sign before crap hits the fan. Take it for what you will.

I could always change my name to Babcocks Willy....... pretty good.

I hope your right, I've always felt there was a deal that was acceptable for everybody involved but things are getting uglier than I like already

This much stuff in the media isn't a positive development imo

 

[Randy Randerson]

People who defend the nylander signing in comparison to pasta love to post the numbers over their elc as some sort of proof that Will deserved that money, ignoring all sorts of other factors.

Pasta first 3 seasons:
172 gp 123 points = 0.715 ppg

Nylander first 3:
185 gp 135 points = 0.729 ppg

Okay so if ppg over their elc is the deciding factor, why do we have matthews making basically McDavid money?

McDavid first 3 seasons:
209 gp 256 points = 1.225 ppg

Matthews first 3:
212 gp 205 points = 0.966 ppg

For comparrison
Marner:
241 gp 224 points = 0.929 ppg

McDavid beat matthews by 0.259 ppg while marner was only 0.037 ppg behind auston.

So is ppg over elc really the deciding factor? Or just when certain posters want it to be?

normalized production is certainly a factor, position is a big factor as well. It's not a single-factor formula by any means though


Matthews doesn't make McDavid money or close to it, McDavid makes over $13M factoring in the year of cap inflation. AAV is a bad comparison for players signing in different years, % of cap is better

 

[Notsince67]

Trade him please.

11m winger is a joke.

Yeah. You were calling for 8MM x8 during the year. We all bow to your judgement

 

[Throw More Waffles]

People who defend the nylander signing in comparison to pasta love to post the numbers over their elc as some sort of proof that Will deserved that money, ignoring all sorts of other factors.

Pasta first 3 seasons:
172 gp 123 points = 0.715 ppg

Nylander first 3:
185 gp 135 points = 0.729 ppg

Okay so if ppg over their elc is the deciding factor, why do we have matthews making basically McDavid money?

McDavid first 3 seasons:
209 gp 256 points = 1.225 ppg

Matthews first 3:
212 gp 205 points = 0.966 ppg

For comparrison
Marner:
241 gp 224 points = 0.929 ppg

McDavid beat matthews by 0.259 ppg while marner was only 0.037 ppg behind auston.

So is ppg over elc really the deciding factor? Or just when certain posters want it to be?

The narrative changes based on whatever leaf overpayment we're discussing.

Nylander: Total elc points matter most and ppg matter most. 3rd elc year is no more important than any other elc year. Goals are no more significant than points.

Matthews: Total points and goals don't matter in the slightest, and neither does ppg. It's all just 5v5 goals/60. That's all that matters. We can safetly ignore quite literally every other stat. 73 points career high? Who cares. 5v5 g/60.

Marner: You know that e5v5 goals/60 that mattered more than anything eles in the world for Matthews? Well... they're useless now. They don't matter in the slightest. Neither do the first 2 elc years that mattered so much for Nylander. It's just the actual real point totals on elc year 3. That's it. 94 points. Goals? Those are for chumps. Nobody gets paid for goals.

I have absolutely no idea how so many leaf fans can take the above stance on all 3 players with a straight face. I just don't understand how they don't see the hypocrisy.

All of this spin is done in order to rationalize a rookie gm that doesn't know what he's doing. It will just hurt far too much for everyone to just admit that Dubas pretty much ruined this rebuild with these dramatic overpayments. So instead of facing reality, absolutely absurd contradictory narratives are created.

 

[Gallagbi]

there will be a portion of the fanbase who will always blame dubas no matter what Marner does now or in the future. Make no mistake if marner leaves on an offersheet for $12M ther would for sure still be working out ways to blame dubas

I don't see a web welcome if he leaves

 

[Stamkos4life]

If Nylander had signed for 600K less Marner would just demand 600K more than he is currently demanding. If Matthews had taken 1.4M less, Marner would just demand 1.4M more. He needs it all.

Careful, you're starting to sound very bitter.

If auston had of signed for reasonable money, I have no doubt marner would've as well. Mitch might yet surprise us and sign a good deal.

 

[Canadian Finn]

The narrative changes based on whatever leaf overpayment we're discussing.

Nylander: Total elc points matter most and ppg matter most. 3rd elc year is no more important than any other elc year. Goals are no more significant than points.

Matthews: Total points and goals don't matter in the slightest, and neither does ppg. It's all just 5v5 goals/60. That's all that matters. We can safetly ignore quite literally every other stat. 73 points career high? Who cares. 5v5 g/60.

Marner: You know that e5v5 goals/60 that mattered more than anything eles in the world for Matthews? Well... they're useless now. They don't matter in the slightest. Neither do the first 2 elc years that mattered so much for Nylander. It's just the actual real point totals on elc year 3. That's it. 94 points. Goals? Those are for chumps. Nobody gets paid for goals.

I have absolutely no idea how so many leaf fans can take the above stance on all 3 players with a straight face. I just don't understand how they don't see the hypocrisy.

All of this spin is done in order to rationalize a rookie gm that doesn't know what he's doing. It will just hurt far too much for everyone to just admit that Dubas pretty muched ruined this rebuild with these dramatic overpayments. So instead of facing reality, absolutely absurd contradictory narratives are created.

This is extremely accurate.

 

[Superstar]

normalized production is certainly a factor, position is a big factor as well. It's not a single-factor formula by any means though


Matthews doesn't make McDavid money or close to it, McDavid makes over $13M factoring in the year of cap inflation. AAV is a bad comparison for players signing in different years, % of cap is better

Of course Matthews does...in 5 years when Matthews renews his contract at what? $15 million plus per? What percentage of the cap would that be, while McDavid is still only making $12.5 million against that new cap.