Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VI | Marner Reportedly Turns Down 8 Year Term

[6ix]

If Marner turned down 8 x 11 I want him off this team.

 

[hotpaws]

They had the best PDO in the league which is not sustainable and a goalie with a .940. The collapse is coming.

hopefully , i don't think some in our fan base could take another season of the Islanders making the playoffs with LL there and JT not , lol

 

[ACC1224]

J. Bailey, 2017-2018: 71 points
J. Bailey, 2018-2019: 56 points

A. Lee, 2017-2018: 62 points
A. Lee, 2018-2019: 51 points

Collapsed? Nope. Trend? You betcha:

M. Marner, 2017-2018: 69 points.
M. Marner, 2018-2019: 94 points.

See it, don't see it. Your choice.

Edit: Forgot to add the one guy that stayed relatively consistent in this analysis:

J. Tavares, 2017-2018: 84 points
J. Tavares, 2018-2019: 88 points

Anyone not seeing who props up who is plain out not seeing.

Marner as a young player has consistently been on an upward trend.
Saying this is only now because of Tavares is a little silly.
If he moves away from him and his stats drastically dip, you may be on to something.

Why would anyone give him such 9,10, 11 million a year if he needs to be carried like Bailey?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

i guess you missed the part where the team did much better without him when the new coach installed a defense first system instead of the run and gun that inflated individual point totals but bleed goals and led the team no where

Yeah, it's almost as though the Islanders made NO OTHER CHANGES that affected their outcome this season (sigh).

yup lucky for that scrub Marner who never produced his entire life that he got to play with JT so he could inflate his points , lol

and an islander fan could point to there team doing better without JT while we performed the same , is that a trend also ?

JT's an excellent player but i never understood the constant need to **** on all his teammates to make his light shine brighter .

Who's crapping on his linemates? You seem to have way too much invested in this for a reasonable discussion. I pointed out a trend. BTW, that trend extends throughout JT's career. It ain't a 1-off.

 

[ACC1224]

Lmao why the **** would you come out and say that publicly. Never in my life have I seen a camp criticize teammates in the media.

Classless and stupid. Tells me all I need to know about the camp. I just hope these aren't Marner approved antics. If it is, he can take his talents elsewhere. No player is above the team

Yep, no doubt a stupid comment.
Looks like they've learned from it, they haven't said anything since.

 

[diceman934]

Seems everything is leaking now though. Seems both sides are playing the media game. Big difference from Lou.

Dubas started this. When he announced the Mathews signing. That is where the leaks are coming from.

 

[Caesium]

It's hilarious that, one year after Marner's 90 point pace to finish out his second season was used as part of the presentation to woo Tavares into signing with the Leafs, that Marner's 94 points is now being entirely attributed to playing with Tavares now that he needs a new contract. Talk about having your cake and wanting to eat it too.

 

[Kiwi]

Seems everything is leaking now though. Seems both sides are playing the media game. Big difference from Lou.

The Nylander holdout is the "good old days" now

This is not good, when people start attacking each other in the media feelings get hurt and things escalate exponentially

 

[diceman934]

It's hilarious that, one year after Marner's 90 point pace to finish out his second season was used as part of the presentation to woo Tavares into signing with the Leafs, that Marner's 94 points is now being entirely attributed to playing with Tavares now that he needs a new contract. Talk about having your cake and wanting to eat it too.

It is like Marner finished behind JT in points by a large margin. Marner was not carried at all.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Marner as a young player has consistently been on an upward trend.
Saying this is only now because of Tavares is a little silly.
If he moves away from him and his stats drastically dip, you may be on to something.

Why would anyone give him such 9,10, 11 million a year if he needs to be carried like Bailey?

I'm onto something regardless and it's not silly (I haven't resorted to pejoratives, why do you feel the need?).

Marner's production increased 13.1% between his rookie and sophomore years. Pretty standard, linear progression. His production increased 36.2% between his sophomore season and being paired with Tavares. This is a statistical anomaly by any reasonable standard. Conversely, JT's production only changed by 3.1%.

Did I mention *everyone* predicted this would happen when we signed JT and it was rumoured he'd be paired with Marner? What is this about anyway? Why are you so adamant to not admit he absolutely flourished when put on Tavares' line? It's almost inarguable yet here we are.

 

[Hockey Crazy]

If Marner turned down 8 x 11 I want him off this team.

We dont actually know that.

 

[hotpaws]

Yeah, it's almost as though the Islanders made NO OTHER CHANGES that affected their outcome this season (sigh).

what are these great personal changes did LL make to enable there team to perform much better without JT ?

Who's crapping on his linemates? You seem to have way too much invested in this for a reasonable discussion. I pointed out a trend. BTW, that trend extends throughout JT's career. It ain't a 1-off.

and Marner has a track record of elevating his teammates and having much much better team success than JT going back to jr

and of course it helps a winger to play with a high quality num 1 c , it also helps that it comes with more ice time and as with JT's wingers more pp time and o-zone starts

 

[Kiwi]

Yep, no doubt a stupid comment.
Looks like they've learned from it, they haven't said anything since.

Please, Dreger is being fed information by somebody in the Marner camp

Do you think he's smart enough to pull Marner going around the league and soliciting offersheets and talking about Marner being "disrespected" out of his ass do you?

Dubas started this. When he announced the Mathews signing. That is where the leaks are coming from.

So announcing the Matthews contract signing is what kicked this **** show off is it?

The next day Marner's agent was talking **** in the media and somebody is feeding very pro Marner stuff to Dreger

No bull****, are you Marner's old man?

 

[MapleLeafs77]

I think its simple:

1. Marner signs for 10 or less
• johnsson or kapanen are traded for a D
2. Marner wants more than 10
• break the draft floor by trading him
• sign johnsson and kapanen

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

The part you misquoted and bolded instead: They hired a Jack Adams winner coming off a Stanley Cup win and lucked into a Masterson Trophy winning goalie that turned his life around and literally set records in net for a team with a storied history. I mean, did you really need me to type this?

and Marner has a track record of elevating his teammates and having much much better team success than JT going back to jr

and of course it helps a winger to play with a high quality num 1 c , it also helps that it comes with more ice time and as with JT's wingers more pp time and o-zone starts

OK so net even. Marner elevates the play of his linemates and Tavares elevates the play of his linemates. One guy's production skyrocketed and the other guy's didn't. Guess who is who?

 

[Mr Hockey]

If Marner turned down 8 x 11 I want him off this team.

I am not sure he was offered that, or it was turned down, etc, don't get sucked into believing opinions or rumors is a fact in Leaf land, and the Op is also a huge seeker of attention ...

 

[ACC1224]

I'm onto something regardless and it's not silly (I haven't resorted to pejoratives, why do you feel the need?).

Marner's production increased 13.1% between his rookie and sophomore years. Pretty standard, linear progression. His production increased 36.2% between his sophomore season and being paired with Tavares. This is a statistical anomaly by any reasonable standard. Conversely, JT's production only changed by 3.1%.

Did I mention *everyone* predicted this would happen when we signed JT and it was rumoured he'd be paired with Marner? What is this about anyway? Why are you so adamant to not admit he absolutely flourished when put on Tavares' line? It's almost inarguable yet here we are.

The thought that an exceptional player like Marner needs to be carried is what I have issue with.
He played with Tavares and flourished, 100%. He also played at that pace without Tavares.
We won't know if that is because of Tavares until he plays without him.
It's silly that you diminish Marners accomplishments because of who he played with when he was trending to those point totals anyway. Saying you're on to something doesn't necessarily mean you're on to something.

 

[Gabriel426]

NHL tells the teams they have to be CAP compliant by certain date at start of season. But many teams are over in the summer. So Dubas tries to trade Z and Marleau. Then you can also play with less players on the roster too. And you can shift guys to the minors to free some up if they clear waivers like maybe Z. and then is my point. once you have exhausted those vehicles and you can't make a trade then what? what will the NHL do? this is my point. i can't see them telling Leafs you can't play games. it would cost the NHL mega millions to payback the season ticket holders and sponsors. That alone would bankrupt the league.

That’s like playing chicken with the League and actually might just work.
I think in Euro football, teams tried to do that and UEFA not only fined them but also stated they cannot pay transfer fees for players until they clear.
Worst thing is losing draft picks and might not allow to sign UFAs.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

The thought that an exceptional player like Marner needs to be carried is what I have issue with.
He played with Tavares and flourished, 100%. He also played at that pace without Tavares.
We won't know if that is because of Tavares until he plays without him.
It's silly that you diminish Marners accomplishments because of who he played with when he was trending to those point totals anyway. Saying you're on to something doesn't necessarily mean you're on to something.

Once again, I'm not trying to diminish Marner's accomplishments. I'm trying to give context in the middle of a salary negotiation. Do you not think that this is the exact conversation happening right now between Dubas and Ferris? Because it is. And it's a valid point.

 

[MyBudJT]

Don’t worry you will get what you want.
Just don’t blame the other 75% of the team if/when they can’t keep up.
Doubtful you get too many Nylander/Marner stats out of the cheap replacements.

Lol, cheeky, eh? "Don't worry, you will get what you want" pffft.

Anyway you put it, its foolish to unload your superstars. What is the general rule of thumb in hockey transactions again? Quality almost always trumps quantity? You're not going to get a Marner caliber player in return in any trade/offer sheet scenerio... so if you can, keep Marner at all costs!!!

Now onto the depth issue. When you have 4 or 5 stars on a team, they are going to eat up a significant amount of your cap. That is the reality of the situation. This IS NOT A BAD THING. What this means is that you have to have cheaper depth. You trade the Johnssons/Kapanens/Browns, etc, and fill them in with quality ELC / Low salaried players. That is how you make things work. Just because a player is on their ELC, or is signed to a lower salary (i.e. Ennis), it doesn't mean they are an incapable player. The more depth options you have, the more likely you will find another Johnsson/Kapanen, etc.

 

[Gabriel426]

The thought that an exceptional player like Marner needs to be carried is what I have issue with.
He played with Tavares and flourished, 100%. He also played at that pace without Tavares.
We won't know if that is because of Tavares until he plays without him.
It's silly that you diminish Marners accomplishments because of who he played with when he was trending to those point totals anyway. Saying you're on to something doesn't necessarily mean you're on to something.

For me the issue is not Marner carried JT or the other way around but rather if Rantanen signs for 9mil/8yrs and Marner really goes, I don’t care, I should be paid like JT and Matthews, that’s just wrong.

Rantanen and Marner are the closest comparable you can find and personally I give the edge to Rantanen.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

It sounds like Kadri + Kapanen + Brown are the focus.
https://www.tsn.ca/darren-dreger-to...e-dubas-to-meet-with-marner-s-agent-1.1325879

Classic Dreger. He’s had the leafs trading Kadri for the last 6 seasons. He puts it out there probably twice a year. Some day he might be correct. The insider!

 

[Suntouchable13]

NHL tells the teams they have to be CAP compliant by certain date at start of season. But many teams are over in the summer. So Dubas tries to trade Z and Marleau. Then you can also play with less players on the roster too. And you can shift guys to the minors to free some up if they clear waivers like maybe Z. and then is my point. once you have exhausted those vehicles and you can't make a trade then what? what will the NHL do? this is my point. i can't see them telling Leafs you can't play games. it would cost the NHL mega millions to payback the season ticket holders and sponsors. That alone would bankrupt the league.

Then what's the point of the cap then? If they don't enforce their rules, then anybody can be over the cap during the season and the league will not do anything? Doesn't make sense, man. The Leafs can be over the cap any time they want with no consequences?

 

[Gabriel426]

Lol, cheeky, eh? "Don't worry, you will get what you want" pffft.

Anyway you put it, its foolish to unload your superstars. What is the general rule of thumb in hockey transactions again? Quality almost always trumps quantity? You're not going to get a Marner caliber player in return in any trade/offer sheet scenerio... so if you can, keep Marner at all costs!!!

Now onto the depth issue. When you have 4 or 5 stars on a team, they are going to eat up a significant amount of your cap. That is the reality of the situation. This IS NOT A BAD THING. What this means is that you have to have cheaper depth. You trade the Johnssons/Kapanens/Browns, etc, and fill them in with quality ELC / Low salaried players. That is how you make things work. Just because a player is on their ELC, or is signed to a lower salary (i.e. Ennis), it doesn't mean they are an incapable player. The more depth options you have, the more likely you will find another Johnsson/Kapanen, etc.

I agree with you but this is not the NBA where it is okay for your 10th-13th player on the roster to have a 0 minutes stat per game. Even a 4th liner or your 6th Dman will eat up 5-10 mins per game.

 

[Trapper]

Lol, cheeky, eh? "Don't worry, you will get what you want" pffft.

Anyway you put it, its foolish to unload your superstars. What is the general rule of thumb in hockey transactions again? Quality almost always trumps quantity? You're not going to get a Marner caliber player in return in any trade/offer sheet scenerio... so if you can, keep Marner at all costs!!!

Now onto the depth issue. When you have 4 or 5 stars on a team, they are going to eat up a significant amount of your cap. That is the reality of the situation. This IS NOT A BAD THING. What this means is that you have to have cheaper depth. You trade the Johnssons/Kapanens/Browns, etc, and fill them in with quality ELC / Low salaried players. That is how you make things work. Just because a player is on their ELC, or is signed to a lower salary (i.e. Ennis), it doesn't mean they are an incapable player. The more depth options you have, the more likely you will find another Johnsson/Kapanen, etc.

Again, don’t complain if the guys can’t cut it.
Those that think we are fine spending half the cap on 4 forwards have zero reason to complain.

We will see what happens.
Currently our D is decimated, we are trying to unload big hurdles like Marleau to ease the burden, and we will look at moving Kadri plus whatever we have too.

Stars are fine, but you need stars at other positions as well.