Abbotsford Canucks | Season Starting

[HairyKneel]

I'm pleased and somewhat relieved to see Lekkerimaki up with Vancouver now. As far as I'm concerned the faster ypu can get your real blue chip prospects graduated and out of the AHL the better. Five games, perfect! There's really nothing to deter the league's numerous pure goons from doing to Lekkerimaki what Montana Onyebuchi just did to Mark Friedman. It's like the 1970s down there with the AHL seeming to market the violence to the fanbase.

And not a word from the league to Onyebuchi for that, just as there wasn't a peep when Podkolzin embarrassed Keaton Middleton on the ice and paid for it with a vertical pile driver straight down on his head and then went into convulsions on the ice. The fans like this sort of thing we're led to believe.

Anyway, I'm super excited to see Lekkerimaki up with the big team and I really hope he can stick around. His hands and his smarts are world clas imho.

Thanks for the awesome updates Meg. Good stuff as usual.

 

[Lindgren]

Kiril Kudryavtsev was a healthy scratch, according to CanucksArmy's David Hall.

 

[F A N]

I'm pleased and somewhat relieved to see Lekkerimaki up with Vancouver now. As far as I'm concerned the faster ypu can get your real blue chip prospects graduated and out of the AHL the better. Five games, perfect! There's really nothing to deter the league's numerous pure goons from doing to Lekkerimaki what Montana Onyebuchi just did to Mark Friedman. It's like the 1970s down there with the AHL seeming to market the violence to the fanbase.

And not a word from the league to Onyebuchi for that, just as there wasn't a peep when Podkolzin embarrassed Keaton Middleton on the ice and paid for it with a vertical pile driver straight down on his head and then went into convulsions on the ice. The fans like this sort of thing we're led to believe.

Anyway, I'm super excited to see Lekkerimaki up with the big team and I really hope he can stick around. His hands and his smarts are world clas imho.

I do have my concerns about graduating prospects too early but in reality a lot of star players don’t spend much time in the AHL. There are some here who felt we rushed Gaudette and he was 22 but Lekkerimaki is a prospect the Canucks ranked like 8th so from a top 10 pick perspective there is less of a concern. If Lekkerimaki is going to be a legit top 6 scorer in the NHL, he probably doesn’t need much AHL time in the first place given that this is his draft +3 year.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

I do have my concerns about graduating prospects too early but in reality a lot of star players don’t spend much time in the AHL. There are some here who felt we rushed Gaudette and he was 22 but Lekkerimaki is a prospect the Canucks ranked like 8th so from a top 10 pick perspective there is less of a concern. If Lekkerimaki is going to be a legit top 6 scorer in the NHL, he probably doesn’t need much AHL time in the first place given that this is his draft +3 year.

I agree 100 percent regarding Gaudette, he was the kind of prospect that needed time in the AHL to develop but the previous regime wasn't exactly patient with their young players. I think it's a shame, but I just don't see the AHL as being a safe place to develop real high end prospects like Lekkerimaki, there is just too much unaccountable violence down there at the present time. It might be different if management here decided to deploy a violent psychopath that can't play hockey and a couple of other tough AHL veterans in Abby the way many other organizations are doing in recognition of the kind of retrograde league the AHL currently is but that's not the direction the Balderson's are going. I'm thinking of the safety of the player first and foremost.

 

[F A N]

I agree 100 percent regarding Gaudette, he was the kind of prospect that needed time in the AHL to develop but the previous regime wasn't exactly patient with their young players. I think it's a shame, but I just don't see the AHL as being a safe place to develop real high end prospects like Lekkerimaki, there is just too much unaccountable violence down there at the present time. It might be different if management here decided to deploy a violent psychopath that can't play hockey and a couple of other tough AHL veterans in Abby the way many other organizations are doing in recognition of the kind of retrograde league the AHL currently is but that's not the direction the Balderson's are going. I'm thinking of the safety of the player first and foremost.

But what’s the solution if we aren’t employing a legit enforcer? Not developing prospects (regardless of quality) because of concerns over player safety is a huge problem if we do think the AHL is important to player development.

Are there any elite HW enforcers left (who could play) that we can acquire?

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

But what’s the solution if we aren’t employing a legit enforcer? Not developing prospects (regardless of quality) because of concerns over player safety is a huge problem if we do think the AHL is important to player development.

Are there any elite HW enforcers left (who could play) that we can acquire?

The thing is, the kind of player I'm talking about isn't a real hockey player. He's just a big cement head that can really hurt someone in a fight and enjoys skating around trying to injure players with cheap shots. Montana Onyebuchi, the guy who deliberately injured Friedman, is just that kind of 'player;' This kind of person can be found in the ECHL or in even lower leagues, being able to skate and fight are the requirements for the position. And then add a couple of tough legitimate AHL veterans to back up your goon and you're good to go, AHL style.

Unfortunately the Balderson's seem to be dug in on priniple and have completely eshewed the slightest element of toughness on the Abbotsford roster and they seem to be moving further and further in this direction year to year. It's a recipe for distater in my opinion.

 

[Blue and Green]

The thing is, the kind of player I'm talking about isn't a real hockey player. He's just a big cement head that can really hurt someone in a fight and enjoys skating around trying to injure players with cheap shots. Montana Onyebuchi, the guy who deliberately injured Friedman, is just that kind of 'player;' This kind of person can be found in the ECHL or in even lower leagues, being able to skate and fight are the requirements for the position. And then add a couple of tough legitimate AHL veterans to back up your goon and you're good to go, AHL style.

Unfortunately the Balderson's seem to be dug in on priniple and have completely eshewed the slightest element of toughness on the Abbotsford roster and they seem to be moving further and further in this direction year to year. It's a recipe for distater in my opinion.

Balderson's, LOL.

That was one thing about the 2019-20 season; with MacEwen, Gadjovich, Arseneau and Stevenson, opponents who pushed the envelope physically had to answer for their sins and usually got the worst of it.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Balderson's, LOL.

That was one thing about the 2019-20 season; with MacEwen, Gadjovich, Arseneau and Stevenson, opponents who pushed the envelope physically had to answer for their sins and usually got the worst of it.

It's the old nuclear deterrent issue, sadly. I don't like it any more than anyone else but it's a big issue in the AHL these days.

And it isn't completely absent from the NHL quite yet either. I believe the recent Tanner Jeannot headshot on Boeser was 'old fashioned' retribution for Hoggy's earlier slew foot on Anze Kopitar. I do wonder if that payback shot would have happened without the absence of deterrance in the Canucks lineup.

Most probably yes, he would have done it. But it's something I've been thinking about recently.

 

[orcatown]

The thing is, the kind of player I'm talking about isn't a real hockey player. He's just a big cement head that can really hurt someone in a fight and enjoys skating around trying to injure players with cheap shots. Montana Onyebuchi, the guy who deliberately injured Friedman, is just that kind of 'player;' This kind of person can be found in the ECHL or in even lower leagues, being able to skate and fight are the requirements for the position. And then add a couple of tough legitimate AHL veterans to back up your goon and you're good to go, AHL style.

Unfortunately the Balderson's seem to be dug in on priniple and have completely eshewed the slightest element of toughness on the Abbotsford roster and they seem to be moving further and further in this direction year to year. It's a recipe for distater in my opinion.

Don't know who you are refering to in Balderson but the lack of any protection for younger players is something I 've been harping on for at least two years. The only player that has been brought in to address the situation was the ridiculous Loewen who had no deterrance value at all.

You watch a game like the other night against Bakersfield and you just have to hope the other team goes easy on Abbotsford. Bakersfield, like every other team, has players like Brown, Carrick, Grubbe and others who supply toughness. Any time they wanted in the last game they could have started banging Abby around. And this is the same every game. Every team they play has a couple of enforcers and some intermediate toughness while Abby has near none.

The result has been that teams can take shots at the prospects any time they want without any fear of meaningful retaliation. This has lead to whole string of serious injuries. This is sheer stupity but any number of posters, here, are only too willing to support how the team has been put together and say any criticism is being a "Johnson Hater".

Fact is rather than getting some players to protect our propsects, Johnson has brought in a bunch of less the mediocre AHL/ECHL types who have done nothing to improve the team. Guys like Smith, Twarynski, Kambeitz, and Steveson provide very little (like a combined 4 goals in 13 games) and it would infinitely better if some legitimate toughness replaced them.

This team is very poorly constructed and yet the GM of the team is extolled around here for setting up a "model franchise". It is like how some posters defended Benning up to the day he was finally canned.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Don't know who you are refering to in Balderson but the lack of any protection for younger players is something I 've been harping on for at least two years. The only player that has been brought in to address the situation was the ridiculous Loewen who had no deterrance value at all.

You watch a game like the other night against Bakersfield and you just have to hope the other team goes easy on Abbotsford. Bakersfield, like every other team, has players like Brown, Carrick, Grubbe and others who supply toughness. Any time they wanted in the last game they could have started banging Abby around. And this is the same every game. Every team they play has a couple of enforcers and some intermediate toughness while Abby has near none.

The result has been that teams can take shots at the prospects any time they want without any fear of meaningful retaliation. This has lead to whole string of serious injuries. This is sheer stupity but any number of posters, here, are only too willing to support how the team has been put together and say any criticism is being a "Johnson Hater".

Fact is rather than getting some players to protect our propsects, Johnson has brought in a bunch of less the mediocre AHL/ECHL types who have done nothing to improve the team. Guys like Smith, Twarynski, Kambeitz, and Steveson provide very little (like a combined 4 goals in 13 games) and it would infinitely better if some legitimate toughness replaced them.

This team is very poorly constructed and yet the GM of the team is extolled around here for setting up a "model franchise". It is like how some posters defended Benning up to the day he was finally canned.

Oh yeah preach brotha! I agree completely with just about all of this, in fact I'd like to frame it and hang it on Johnson's wall.

'The Balderson's' is a nickname we have hung on the management tandem of Rutherford and Allvin since it gets pretty murky trying to determine who exactly is responsible for what with this management. And that probably extends to Abbotsford as well. Though Ryan Johnson himself is not at all challenged in the follicle department

 

[arttk]

Don't know who you are refering to in Balderson but the lack of any protection for younger players is something I 've been harping on for at least two years. The only player that has been brought in to address the situation was the ridiculous Loewen who had no deterrance value at all.

You watch a game like the other night against Bakersfield and you just have to hope the other team goes easy on Abbotsford. Bakersfield, like every other team, has players like Brown, Carrick, Grubbe and others who supply toughness. Any time they wanted in the last game they could have started banging Abby around. And this is the same every game. Every team they play has a couple of enforcers and some intermediate toughness while Abby has near none.

The result has been that teams can take shots at the prospects any time they want without any fear of meaningful retaliation. This has lead to whole string of serious injuries. This is sheer stupity but any number of posters, here, are only too willing to support how the team has been put together and say any criticism is being a "Johnson Hater".

Fact is rather than getting some players to protect our propsects, Johnson has brought in a bunch of less the mediocre AHL/ECHL types who have done nothing to improve the team. Guys like Smith, Twarynski, Kambeitz, and Steveson provide very little (like a combined 4 goals in 13 games) and it would infinitely better if some legitimate toughness replaced them.

This team is very poorly constructed and yet the GM of the team is extolled around here for setting up a "model franchise". It is like how some posters defended Benning up to the day he was finally canned.

Wait there are Johnson defenders??
At the surface level, it feel like he has done a really crappy job. He might be doing a lot behind the scenes to support and nurture prospects but it really doesn’t mean much if they go out on the ice and get their heads taken off by goons.

 

[VanJack]

Oh yeah preach brotha! I agree completely with just about all of this, in fact I'd like to frame it and hang it on Johnson's wall.

'The Balderson's' is a nickname we have hung on the management tandem of Rutherford and Allvin since it gets pretty murky trying to determine who exactly is responsible for what with this management. And that probably extends to Abbotsford as well. Though Ryan Johnson himself is not at all challenged in the follicle department

When you break down this Abbotsford Canucks roster, they have a lot of veterans like PDG, Blais, Wolanin, Friedman and Brisebois. Problem is they've hardly played. But they have bunch more guys who are starting third year as AHL players. So they aren't rookies either.

Your complaint is that the Canucks don't have a knuckle-dragger to discourage other teams from taking liberties with some of Abby's skill players. But the fact they haven't signed a guy like that since Vinny Arseneau left town isn't really on Johnson.

If Allvin and Rutherford felt Abbotsford needed an enforcer, they'd have gone out and found one. You can assume they don't think it's a problem. But I'm sure they'll monitor it as the season goes on.

But again, the purpose of an AHL farm team is to groom players for the NHL. And granting valuable ice time to an ECHL-AHL 'tweener, simply because he'll drop the gloves and pound on somebody just doesn't do anything for player development.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Wait there are Johnson defenders??
At the surface level, it feel like he has done a really crappy job. He might be doing a lot behind the scenes to support and nurture prospects but it really doesn’t mean much if they go out on the ice and get their heads taken off by goons.

Exactly. If the violent psyxchopaths of the AHL are allowed to run roughshod ovewr the Lekkerimaki's and the Tom Willander's what your doing in Abbotsford isn't really development. Quite the contrary.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

When you break down this Abbotsford Canucks roster, they have a lot of veterans like PDG, Blais, Wolanin, Friedman and Brisebois. Problem is they've hardly played. But they have bunch more guys who are starting third year as AHL players. So they aren't rookies either.

Your complaint is that the Canucks don't have a knuckle-dragger to discourage other teams from taking liberties with some of Abby's skill players. But the fact they haven't signed a guy like that since Vinny Arseneau left town isn't really on Johnson.

If Allvin and Rutherford felt Abbotsford needed an enforcer, they'd have gone out and found one. You can assume they don't think it's a problem. But I'm sure they'll monitor it as the season goes on.

But again, the purpose of an AHL farm team is to groom players for the NHL. And granting valuable ice time to an ECHL-AHL 'tweener, simply because he'll drop the gloves and pound on somebody just doesn't do anything for player development.

You've got a bunch of guys on the roster on AHL contracts and a few on NHL deals who are there to fill roles on the team. Whether the twelfth forward is Carsen Trwarnyski or Alex Gallant doesn't factor into development one way or the other. One player provides a measure of deterrence in a very violent league, the other fill;s a sweater and does little else.

The only concievable reason that, say, a Twarnyski is on the team instead of a Gallant facsimile is pacifist ideolgy on the part of management. This thinking has seemingly advanced with this group to the point where they either don't see, or don't want to see the danger in dressing no toughness in the lineup. And if they do see it, and Lekkerimaki is seriously hurt down there then they'll stand on principle and take the hit.

These guys were pragmatic enough in Pittsburgh to listen to Crosby and add Ryan Reaves to the lineup once upon a time, but it seems to me we've moved beyond that kind of fl;exible thinking here with respect to this issue.

 

[sting101]

Yes fuxxxin rights let's go get a half dozen knuckle draggers and goon it up....Boogaard Probert Belak Kordic Peat would be awesome to go and fuxx up other teams top prospects with head injuries???

And who cares about the guys doing the fighting?

Dallas/Texas sucks too they were the least penalized AHL team with Stankoven and Bourque. They should have had a goon to protect them

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

 

[Blue and Green]

View attachment 929484

Was the company called Atlas? I remember the ad from comic books and vaguely remember the device. EDIT: Charles Atlas, right? "Dynamic Tension"

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Was the company called Atlas? I remember the ad from comic books and vaguely remember the device.

Dammit @Blue and Green I'm tired of having sand kicked in my face. I'm ordering Charles Atlas' book!

Look at it this way though. Friedman and Boeser can compare notes while they're in concussion protocol...

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The thing is, the kind of player I'm talking about isn't a real hockey player. He's just a big cement head that can really hurt someone in a fight and enjoys skating around trying to injure players with cheap shots. Montana Onyebuchi, the guy who deliberately injured Friedman, is just that kind of 'player;' This kind of person can be found in the ECHL or in even lower leagues, being able to skate and fight are the requirements for the position. And then add a couple of tough legitimate AHL veterans to back up your goon and you're good to go, AHL style.

Unfortunately the Balderson's seem to be dug in on priniple and have completely eshewed the slightest element of toughness on the Abbotsford roster and they seem to be moving further and further in this direction year to year. It's a recipe for distater in my opinion.

Right, Onyebuchi is "just that kind of player". Which is why having an enforcer wouldn't actually have prevented what he did to Friedman. I watched Onyebuchi a lot in junior, he likes to fight, he wants to fight your enforcer.
I agree that if that's how the league is going to be run you should have a couple of your own guys like that. In no way does it stop dirty players from being dirty though. Enforcers don't even stop the Matt Cooke's of the world, and he's 195 lbs and can't fight a lick.
Only league enforcement stops this shit. When's the last bench clearing brawl you saw?? Guys just didn't feel like doing that anymore or what?

 

[orcatown]

Yes fuxxxin rights let's go get a half dozen knuckle draggers and goon it up....Boogaard Probert Belak Kordic Peat would be awesome to go and fuxx up other teams top prospects with head injuries???

And who cares about the guys doing the fighting?

Dallas/Texas sucks too they were the least penalized AHL team with Stankoven and Bourque. They should have had a goon to protect them

What in the world are talking about. Dallas/Texas has got all kinds of size and toughness throughout their line including:

Curtis Mavkenzie (one of the better fighters in the League)

Alexander Petrovic (who has been an enforcer for years at the both the NHL and the AHL

Kyle Looft (decent fighter)

Lian Bischel (huge and very aggressive)

Mike Karow (legit fighter)

and others who bring vet toughness

Using them as example of team that doesn't use toughness or have toughness is simply wrong and mindless. Why don't you really find an AHl team that doesn't have toughness. (outside of Abbotsford)

Then exaggerating that anyone who wants some toughness to protect our prospects just wants a team of thugs and knuckle draggers is just a way to deflect away from the point that people legitmately want the younger smaller players protected .

All people are saying is that like any team at this level you need a couple of players at least to make other teams have some fear about taking open runs at our players. Maybe the Laegue should do more but it obviously doesn't. You have to take care of this problem of protecting your team. To think and argue otherwise is mindless and pathetically unrealistic

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

It's hard to watch the Podkolzin and Friedman incidents and then the non reaction from the AHL, and the Canucks and have any expectation that anything will change without some preventative measures taken by the team itself. As @orcatown has said, the Canucks seem to on a blissfully unaware island by themselves as to the stark realities of AHL violence. I guess you really do have to sit through some of these player siezure on the ice and stretchered off to the ambulance with no response or acknowledgement from the league or the team after being attacked by an ECHL level pure goon incidents to fully understand this issue

I didn't really want to go there but it does seem to be a dividing line in this debate.

 

[mossey3535]

I think it's also a special situation that's endemic to the AHL. At the NHL level I don't think the enforcer thing works unless the guy can actually play the game as well. But at the AHL level it's a lot more of a throwback game.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

I think it's also a special situation that's endemic to the AHL. At the NHL level I don't think the enforcer thing works unless the guy can actually play the game as well. But at the AHL level it's a lot more of a throwback game.

The AHL seems to be selling enforcer fights and the threat of extreme violence to the fans in some their non traditional markets. It's the only rationale for their non action in these incidents that seem to keep repeating themselves.

I'm open to other explanations, but can't offer any myself.

 

[Nick Lang]

Do goons actually protect players from cheap shots?

Absolutely not or with very little effect in my opinion. Lifelong pro hockey players are smart enough not to be deterred by lame tactics like that.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Do goons actually protect players from cheap shots?

Absolutely not or with very little effect in my opinion. Lifelong pro hockey players are smart enough not to be deterred by lame tactics like that.

It’s hard to prove a negative.
You see a team with toughness have a star player get hurt by a cheap shot and say, “see enforcers do nothing”.
But you don’t see any of the cheap shots that guys had second thoughts about throwing out of concern about retribution.