Mitch Marner Continued II

[forecheck]

You hire rookies - You get Rookie mistakes

 

[DraftSchmaft]

My theory is that Dubas was too young/inexperienced to have any leverage. And Marner's agent banked on that.

After essentially caving to Nylander and than losing him for an entire season (7 goals/27 points?), Marner's agent knew he could use that to his advantage. If Marner sat out a part season (and then was invisible all year like Nylander) or actually did sit out the whole season, there is a legitimate possibility that Dubas would be fired. The better gamble for Dubas is to give in to Marner, give him his unprecedented dramatic overpayment, and hope to hell he lives up to it. Because if rookie Dubas got fired, that's likely it for his gm career (see jfj).

Now imagine it was still Lou (note: I am NOT saying he's perfect with his contracts, so don't bother with that.)

But again, let's take Lou in this precise situation. Let's say Lou plays hardball and Marner sits for the season. If Lou gets fired, that is NOT it for his career. He signs with the Islanders or some other team the very next day. He had WAY more leverage in the situation than rookie Dubas.

And in this situation, it isn't really even Dubas' fault. He was faced with a choice... What's more likely to get me fired and ruin my gm career? Massively overpaying Marner and hoping he lives up to it? Or a Nylander sit out situation where we lose a full season of Marner? He chose the former. Which was probably safer for him.

Isn't it fact by this point Nylander caved and called Dubas back last second.

 

[Stephen]

The best thing that can happen between the Toronto Maple Leafs and Mitch Marner is to uncouple the story of the Leafs climb as contenders with Marner's personal growth story.

I think the whole mental anguish around the team has a lot to do with a young guy feeling all the pressure of the world on his shoulders because he insisted he was a big dog and he has to carry this whole thing. Let's unburden that. Maybe he isn't as big a dog as he thinks he is. You're not Michael Jordan. But can you be Scottie Pippen? Or to use a hockey analogy, you're not Crosby, you're not Malkin, but can you be Phil? Recast Marner as the facilitator and sidekick that he is and let him play free and easy doing what he does best which is focus on piling up the points.

 

[Notsince67]

The best thing that can happen between the Toronto Maple Leafs and Mitch Marner is to uncouple the story of the Leafs climb as contenders with Marner's personal growth story.

I think the whole mental anguish around the team has a lot to do with a young guy feeling all the pressure of the world on his shoulders because he insisted he was a big dog and he has to carry this whole thing. Let's unburden that. Maybe he isn't as big a dog as he thinks he is. You're not Michael Jordan. But can you be Scottie Pippen? Or to use a hockey analogy, you're not Crosby, you're not Malkin, but can you be Phil? Recast Marner as the facilitator and sidekick that he is and let him play free and easy doing what he does best which is focus on piling up the points.

This narrative is exhausting. He has the 14th highest cap hit contract in the league and scores easily in the top10.
Holy hell can you folks give it a rest.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Isn't it fact by this point Nylander caved and called Dubas back last second.

Yes, but some posters want to keep running this B.S. narrative. Nylander's ask was the Draisaitl contract of 8.5M. Thats a big drop from the 6.9 that he got. If Dubas had caved he would have gotten closer to that 8.5.

I do think Dubas should have taken a harder stance against Marner's camp.

 

[Stephen]

This narrative is exhausting. He has the 14th highest cap hit contract in the league and scores easily in the top10.
Holy hell can you folks give it a rest.

So like I said, let him be a point compiling sidekick and contribute in ways that suit his strengths. Not every loss needs to be laid at his feet, but also don't expect him to put the team on his back when the chips are down.

 

[egd27]

This narrative is exhausting. He has the 14th highest cap hit contract in the league and scores easily in the top10.
Holy hell can you folks give it a rest.

How did you get 14th?

 

[Racer88]

So we are comparing Marner to a Generational Talent-Crosby. Who scored over 30 goals and 100 pts in his rookie season. The face of not only the Pens but the NHL. Then led his team to Three Cups and 4 Finals. Not to mention a lock for Team Canada even when he is out injured.

Regardless of how much Cap% Sid signed after his ELC, he delivered in the regular season and playoffs with Cup, in his next two seasons after he signed the contract.

I am not going to get into whether or not Marner deserves his contract as it is an endless loop. The fact is the core of the Leafs as of now could not get anything done in the playoffs, I mean they have not even win 4 games in a series. How can any Leafs fans be okay with that? I really don't care about insane goaltending or these players got chances but just could not convert....thats all excuses. Listening to they created chances but got tough luck is the same as somebody saying here is a cheque for your hard work but don't cash it bc there is no money in the account.

My sentiments exactly. Winners celebrate wins and losers talk about bad luck and moral victories

 

[PromisedLand]

signing bonus drop mimics play drop eh?

Mitchell Marner Contract, Cap Hit, Salary and Stats - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Racer88]

So like I said, let him be a point compiling sidekick and contribute in ways that suit his strengths. Not every loss needs to be laid at his feet, but also don't expect him to put the team on his back when the chips are down.

Sounds like a good idea but sidekicks usually don’t get super hero money.
It’s going to be almost impossible to get past that awful contract.
Only 2 possible outcomes for Marner. Either they win a cup or he is traded.

 

[Menzinger]

Marner is a fantastic player and he's going to shake this off eventually and the points will come in droves.

A problem though is, when things and bounces don't seem to go his way he seems to get overly frustrated and at the same time hasn't found ways to adjust his game to deal with it. Was similar during some of those Habs games in the playoffs.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This narrative is exhausting. He has the 14th highest cap hit contract in the league and scores easily in the top10.
Holy hell can you folks give it a rest.

What's exhausting is the thousands of posts with regular season numbers to show how awesome Marner is. Listen carefully now. Are you listening?

Get back to us when he has brag worthy playoff numbers but until then, give it a rest already with the regular season numbers, nobody cares.

 

[Gabriel426]

So like I said, let him be a point compiling sidekick and contribute in ways that suit his strengths. Not every loss needs to be laid at his feet, but also don't expect him to put the team on his back when the chips are down.

I don’t think that’s possible due to his contract. Esp since the sidekick role has been taken by JT.
He just needs to put his head down and produce. It is as simple as that.

 

[notbias]

How did you get 14th?

Probably cap %, but he is 13th, and his contract looks reasonable in that context.

Cap % is a much more logical way to look at cap hits, but it is often ignored.

Also makes you laugh at people saying "but it wasn't his UFA contract", there are some really bad UFA contracts sprinkled around there.

 

[Gabriel426]

Probably cap %, but he is 13th, and his contract looks reasonable in that context.

Cap % is a much more logical way to look at cap hits, but it is often ignored.

Also makes you laugh at people saying "but it wasn't his UFA contract", there are some really bad UFA contracts sprinkled around there.

There is no logical way looking at players contract. They are worth the contract when they produce esp in playoffs.
You can use cap % all you want bc the people that often use cap % in a discussions is bc the player they are discussing is not producing. Does anyone use cap% to justify McDavid contract? Which was 25% more than the highest contract at that time? Nobody is talking about Mack’s contract bc he is producing now but people often forget how much crap he received for being overpaid at 6.35mil and was moved to RW bc the Avs thought he couldn’t handle playing the C.
If you take comfort in Marner or AM or JT being the 3rd, 12th and 13th(whatever) instead of being 3 of the top 7 salaries in the league therefore it is okay for them to not produce in playoffs, that’s fine but I expect more from them in the playoffs.

 

[Aashir]

1. Lou was here to do Nylander early and he di'int.

1.5 Lou's idiotic bonus rule made Marner negotiate for every penny

2. Didn't really cave for Nylander, even back then the contract was fine.

3. I believe that someone from above Shanny pushed for them to get the contract done and save the franchise the embarrassment twice.

No, a career best 61 points playing sheltered minutes was not worth 7 million for 6 years. His literal counterpart Ehlers signed for 6.5 x 7, a better deal for virtually the same player.

Isn't it fact by this point Nylander caved and called Dubas back last second.

If 7 x 6 is dubas having the leverage then…….. i don’t even know. Dubas folded way too hard if this is true, at that point you hard ball nylander for 6 x 6 or a bridge deal around 4 million or he sits. We were sweltering hot around that time anyways and were a top 3 team at the time

 

[Notsince67]

So like I said, let him be a point compiling sidekick and contribute in ways that suit his strengths. Not every loss needs to be laid at his feet, but also don't expect him to put the team on his back when the chips are down.

I as a fan hope any player on any given day might do that. That is why we watch sports. To say he might is what we should expect from sport. To say he wont...which has been the tone by many here, just sound sulky and petty.

 

[Notsince67]

How did you get 14th?

Look at cap% of the contracts at signing.

 

[ACC1224]

Isn't it fact by this point Nylander caved and called Dubas back last second.

There is no doubt he caved, who called who first is irrelevant unless you believe that Dubas NEVER would have called him back. Even his harshest critic wouldn’t believe him to be that incompetent.

His bigger mistakes though were first not taking Marners initial offer and then signing Matthew’s first.

Done now, most should just move on like the rest have.

 

[hotpaws]

Look at cap% of the contracts at signing.

we should round it up to a nice even num and just say he has a top cap hit , lol

and while we're at it we can also do the same for little Yanni pajamas who's played much worse than Marner but gets a free pass because he's speshall

 

[Notsince67]

we should round it up to a nice even num and just say he has a top cap hit , lol

and while we're at it we can also do the same for little Yanni pajamas who's played much worse than Marner but gets a free pass because he's speshall

Not centering on anyone specifically but cap hits have become as boring around here as the low social value posters around here attempting an elevation by knocking down a high social value player when they can. It isnt about sports anymore when we begin using the lenses of celebrity and greed as a figurative cudgel for shaming.
Tut tutting scolds are totally cringe. It totally degrades the discourse of this game into the realm of a netflix special.

 

[hotpaws]

Not centering on anyone specifically but cap hits have become as boring around here as the low social value posters around here attempting an elevation by knocking down a high social value player when they can. It isnt about sports anymore when we begin using the lenses of celebrity and greed as a figurative cudgel for shaming.
Tut tutting scolds are totally cringe. It totally degrades the discourse of this game into the realm of a netflix special.

''social value'' lol , your outdoing yourself today , on this board they'll always be one or maybe the odd time two players who get signaled out as the reason the team didn't succeed

when Andy didn't play in the playoffs and wasn't re-signed there needed to be a new whipping boy and by process of elimination Marner became the chosen one so you can take back handed swipes at me and others but that won't help get Marner out of the dog house

 

[Racer88]

I don’t think there is any doubt that Marner take a lot of anger from leafs fans everywhere. It not just on this site. It in the public, it’s on social media.
There is so much of it the GM and the coach have addressed it on multiple occasions..
The question becomes why has this happened to him.
Some on this site believe he can do no wrong and has been awesome but if that were truly the case…….why does he receive such anger?
I’m not sure it’s just because people need a whipping boy but if so why him?

 

[Notsince67]

''social value'' lol , your outdoing yourself today , on this board they'll always be one or maybe the odd time two players who get signaled out as the reason the team didn't succeed

when Andy didn't play in the playoffs and wasn't re-signed there needed to be a new whipping boy and by process of elimination Marner became the chosen one so you can take back handed swipes at me and others but that won't help get Marner out of the dog house

You miss the point. Criticizing play is fair game. The pettiness however, is so obvious at this point, there are people who criticize the kid for being invisible after 4 shifts. No...only cognitive dissonance prevents people from realizing their low self worth piousness has infected their game evaluation.

 

[ACC1224]

I don’t think there is any doubt that Marner take a lot of anger from leafs fans everywhere. It not just on this site. It in the public, it’s on social media.
There is so much of it the GM and the coach have addressed it on multiple occasions..
The question becomes why has this happened to him.
Some on this site believe he can do no wrong and has been awesome but if that were truly the case…….why does he receive such anger?
I’m not sure it’s just because people need a whipping boy but if so why him?

“Stupid is as stupid does”.