Mitch Marner Continued II

[MattySnipes]

I think everyone in organization has to take a piece of blame for how organization has faltered in playoffs. They know they are not supposed to be outed in 1st round based on the talent they have. But countless times we see that to go far in playoffs you need the talent, the will, depth players showing up, special teams expertise, and definitely some luck.

I have moved on from having any favourites on this team anymore. Used to be Nylander, Matthews, and Marner. But I've realised I've just been defending them bc they're a Leaf and team's new young stars. I have to defend and be a fan of the TEAM.

M&M and Nylander may not be here in a few years but the Leafs organization will always be around, along with other prospects and players climbing within ranks.

Dubas is to blame a bit as well as Shanahan. No one is innocent. If you want to give 40 mill to 4 players, then you better be able to fill rest of roster to make it competitive team. What happens if m&m are locked down? What happens if JT is injured? What if talent produces but your goalie is shit and loses you games.

It's a team sport, while we all like to have our favourites and defend them over others, in a luck game like hockey (played on frickin ice) you're literally one bounce (good or bad) away from winning or losing.

I've been a fan of the team for over 50 years, and it won't stop because we've overpaid players. We'll figure our way out hopefully and one day (hopefully soon) we can rejoice being Leafs fans.

Been a long week with no Leafs action. Tmrw should be a good one.

 

[Jojalu]

My sentiments exactly. Winners celebrate wins and losers talk about bad luck and moral victories

While I sort of agree with your premise, the Leafs don't have and didn't have a HOF goalie as well as a second generational player to go with Crosby who is probably top 5 all time.

The Leafs can be a good team without ever winning a Cup. They just won't be the best team.

Good to great teams don't win Championships every year in sports, because contrary to your opinion, luck does play a part. Not the be all and end all but it does make a difference

 

[MJK]

Campbell wasn't great in Games 5-7. He was great in Games 1-4. Although Andersen certainly was not one of our best players in the CBJ series... Not our only issue, but certainly one of our worst players.

I agree about Marner though, and I think he is looked much of the same in the first four games of this season offensively. Just not quite as sharp as he should be.

He had a .936 sv%! He actually was one of the better players in that series; the Leafs could not score…..again!

 

[SeaOfBlue]

He had a .936 sv%! He actually was one of the better players in that series; the Leafs could not score…..again!

Hypothetical: Who would you rather have in net? A guy who puts up a .925 behind the worst defense in the league or a guy who puts up a .935 behind the best defense in the league? The former is a much better goalie than the latter.

The Leafs defense made that series extremely easy for Andersen. A .936 was subpar, especially when the other goalie was having a historical 7 game stretch in net where he had like a .975 save percentage. Add in a team that can park the bus extremely well when you spot them goals, which is what Andersen did on numerous occasions, and this is what you get.

Andersen was our biggest liability in our own end. He was certainly not one of the better players in that series, and was arguably one of the worst.

 

[Rogue Leader]

The best thing that can happen between the Toronto Maple Leafs and Mitch Marner is to uncouple the story of the Leafs climb as contenders with Marner's personal growth story.

I think the whole mental anguish around the team has a lot to do with a young guy feeling all the pressure of the world on his shoulders because he insisted he was a big dog and he has to carry this whole thing. Let's unburden that. Maybe he isn't as big a dog as he thinks he is. You're not Michael Jordan. But can you be Scottie Pippen? Or to use a hockey analogy, you're not Crosby, you're not Malkin, but can you be Phil? Recast Marner as the facilitator and sidekick that he is and let him play free and easy doing what he does best which is focus on piling up the points.

I like this idea, but in reality he needs a new contract for his sidekick role - to reflect his support position.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Not petty. Adjusting expectations.

Marner ran into trouble in this market because he insisted he was every bit as important as Auston Matthews and demanded the money as proof. And ever since then his storyline it’s just been a running list of how he doesn’t do A,B,C… X, Y, Z.

Well, stop asking him to. Focus on getting those points aka what he’s reliable and elite at and uncouple Marner’s big game, clutch, goal scoring, whatever issues like it’s a team wide Leafs issue.

There were even delusional posters on this site - who insisted that Marner was actually better than Matthews.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Ya no there’s a difference between being a fair contract now vs at the time of signing. He’s doing more with less now. Before he played with Matthews and was a perimeter 60 point player, now he’s a 70 point player with john Tavares, a objectively worse Center.

I guess we can agree to disagree on the original fairness of the contract, but since then it’s undeniable he’s lived up to it

What? He scored 61 pts as a 20 yr old rookie and followed it up with another 61 pt season as a 21 yr old. That wasn't going to be his peak. He was going to get better. Again 6-7M Is the going rate for a 60+pt player, so he was paid accordingly at the time. Now that he is improving, the deal looks better. If we compare it to Pastrnak, he had 70 pts in his contract year in 2017 and scored at a 40 pt pace the season before. So Willy had actually showed more production over the 2 years leading into his contract. When Pasta signed his contract in 2017, the cap was 75M and signed for 8.89% of the cap. Willy signed his contract in 2018 when the cap was 79M and he signed for 8.76% of the cap. Pretty comparable. Pasta broke out after signing his contract to over a ppg player as he should have entering his prime. We are seeing that from Willy now.

And yes @yubbers, Pasta would be considered a super steal. Same with Mack and Marchand

 

[supermann_98]

At this point Marner just needs a little luck and a puck to bounce in off his shin pads or skate, and you'd think once that happens the floodgates will open up for him.

The problem with that however is that he has to go to the net to get a lucky bounce like that, and as well all know he avoids going to the net like the plague, as ouchies happen when you go to the net

 

[francis246]

So what's Pasta then? A super steal? You're just not used to seeing us having contracts that aren't overpayments :p

Pasta is a super steal. to this day I'm not sure why he didn't have the balls to bet on himself. Good for the bruins. LOL, the Nylander contract is not an overpayment at all. Sure saving $499,000 would have been nice but in the grand scheme of things it wouldn't have saved us any players and isn't that big of a deal. It's also pretty clear to me and others that Nylander is all of a sudden worth every penny of that contract since he's better than Marner now right?

Ya'll kill me, you only want the narrative to fit when it suits you. Nylander is better than Marner but he's not worth his contract, how does that make any sense. If Nylander is better than Marner would that not mean that he's better than both Ehlers and Pasta who Marner is better than? You can't have it both ways.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I think everyone in organization has to take a piece of blame for how organization has faltered in playoffs. They know they are not supposed to be outed in 1st round based on the talent they have. But countless times we see that to go far in playoffs you need the talent, the will, depth players showing up, special teams expertise, and definitely some luck.

I have moved on from having any favourites on this team anymore. Used to be Nylander, Matthews, and Marner. But I've realised I've just been defending them bc they're a Leaf and team's new young stars. I have to defend and be a fan of the TEAM.

M&M and Nylander may not be here in a few years but the Leafs organization will always be around, along with other prospects and players climbing within ranks.

Dubas is to blame a bit as well as Shanahan. No one is innocent. If you want to give 40 mill to 4 players, then you better be able to fill rest of roster to make it competitive team. What happens if m&m are locked down? What happens if JT is injured? What if talent produces but your goalie is shit and loses you games.

It's a team sport, while we all like to have our favourites and defend them over others, in a luck game like hockey (played on frickin ice) you're literally one bounce (good or bad) away from winning or losing.

I've been a fan of the team for over 50 years, and it won't stop because we've overpaid players. We'll figure our way out hopefully and one day (hopefully soon) we can rejoice being Leafs fans.

Been a long week with no Leafs action. Tmrw should be a good one.

Actually what they know is they are 1st round losers .. they don't know they should be past round 1 because they never ever have been .. each of them individually thinks he is da cats meow yes that is true of every pro player .. but collectively they already know they are 1st round losers .. cultures are difficult to change .. they require severe interventions to change them .. but this year I am sure they will fight for their lives just to make playoffs as wildcards

 

[ECYCLE]

Not petty. Adjusting expectations.

Marner ran into trouble in this market because he insisted he was every bit as important as Auston Matthews and demanded the money as proof. And ever since then his storyline it’s just been a running list of how he doesn’t do A,B,C… X, Y, Z.

Well, stop asking him to. Focus on getting those points aka what he’s reliable and elite at and uncouple Marner’s big game, clutch, goal scoring, whatever issues like it’s a team wide Leafs issue.

It's this, exactly to a tee. If you can't see that all of the criticism is just the natural course of overcorrection that was inevitable, then you are guilty of overrating as much as Marner, Dubas, etc.

I agree that Marner should just stick to what he's good at but unfortunately and quite evidently too, his game doesn't translate too well in the playoffs.

 

[Stephen]

It's this, exactly to a tee. If you can't see that all of the criticism is just the natural course of overcorrection that was inevitable, then you are guilty of overrating as much as Marner, Dubas, etc.

I agree that Marner should just stick to what he's good at but unfortunately and quite evidently too, his game doesn't translate too well in the playoffs.

Marner clearly has the tools to produce offensively in all situations so he should focus on that. There’s so much noise and mental energy wasted in the fanbase and probably by the player himself about this annoying Marner/Leafs come up story, team of destiny, mental fragility, assuming the mantle of greatness from past Leafs, being a local guy etc. You can see how carrying all that burden weighs him down. Just load up the points, do what you do and unburden yourself from all those extra legacy things.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

The details of the call were released? How many times did each party call each other during the time he sat out?
How much money did Nylander lose by sitting out?

Flip the script away from Dubas perspective . Let's pretend we're Nylander.

You come in hot at the beginning starting off in the 8 mil range.

When it's all said and done you missed half the season. It came down to the last hour that DID involve a phone call from you to Dubas to settle around 7 mil instead otherwise you're missing the whole season.

Do you feel confident signing then turning around grinning saying "oh boy I sure made him bend over and cave to me"

Answer is a simple no. There's not enough there to suggest Dubas caved with confidence . You yourself admit Nylanders situation is not similar to marner and matthews.

LEt's not forget the key to all this is the contract is a value contract today. Seems it's right where Dubas wanted it to be. The word cave should not be anywhere near a value contract. Looks like a pure win by Dubas

But yeah carry the 1 cancel out the exponent and when you extrapolate all of this it seems Marner will be scoring some goals soon and busting out this slump. I don't know why others can't stay on topic like us.

 

[Menzinger]

This thread is about Marner, not about Nylander's contract negotiations.

 

[123offtheglass]

Reporter: "anything you need to d..."
Mitch: "NOPE nothin."

pretty funny answers in this one

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Reporter: "anything you need to d..."
Mitch: "NOPE nothin."

pretty funny answers in this one

hes actually looking jacked compared to last year. good to see

 

[Kiwi]

He's been playing well, it's just a matter of time before the points start to flow

Especially with Matthews back

 

[Antropovsky]

Reporter: "anything you need to d..."
Mitch: "NOPE nothin."

pretty funny answers in this one

Reporter: What do you have to do to make your chances fall
Marner: hope the puck goes in, passes the goal line....* huge sarcastic smile
Reporter: ok but your being paid to be a difference maker, what do you need to do...
Marner: smile drops "Yeah........ it goes in...proceeds to discuss getting chances.

Kudos to the reporter for calling his contract out after his ridiculous sarcastic smile and comment. Made Marner give a legit response, least he could do.

I'd like Keefe to keep Marner away from Matthews.... don't want him to get the easy points. Rather him have to work for the 11 million and suffer through the expectations.

 

[Racer88]

Reporter: What do you have to do to make your chances fall
Marner: hope the puck goes in, passes the goal line....* huge sarcastic smile
Reporter: ok but your being paid to be a difference maker, what do you need to do...
Marner: smile drops "Yeah........ it goes in...proceeds to discuss getting chances.

Kudos to the reporter for calling his contract out after his ridiculous sarcastic smile and comment. Made Marner give a legit response, least he could do.

I'd like Keefe to keep Marner away from Matthews.... don't want him to get the easy points. Rather him have to work for the 11 million and suffer through the expectations.

This is one of the reasons Marner gets a lot of shade thrown at him.
He is arrogant and petulant.

 

[Racer88]

Reporter: "anything you need to d..."
Mitch: "NOPE nothin."

pretty funny answers in this one

Phil Kessel was more likeable then Marner

 

[studebaker17]

This is one of the reasons Marner gets a lot of shade thrown at him.
He is arrogant and petulant.

Name a hockey player who's not arrogant in some regard lol. Marner to me seems kind of not to bright though . The majority of players are good at hiding their arrogance .

 

[notbias]

There is no logical way looking at players contract. They are worth the contract when they produce esp in playoffs.
You can use cap % all you want bc the people that often use cap % in a discussions is bc the player they are discussing is not producing. Does anyone use cap% to justify McDavid contract? Which was 25% more than the highest contract at that time? Nobody is talking about Mack’s contract bc he is producing now but people often forget how much crap he received for being overpaid at 6.35mil and was moved to RW bc the Avs thought he couldn’t handle playing the C.
If you take comfort in Marner or AM or JT being the 3rd, 12th and 13th(whatever) instead of being 3 of the top 7 salaries in the league therefore it is okay for them to not produce in playoffs, that’s fine but I expect more from them in the playoffs.

Brings up McDavid... whose production drops off a lot in the playoffs and says no one should question his contract... okay.

Cap % is used because it is the only logical way to compare contracts.

 

[Racer88]

Name a hockey player who's not arrogant in some regard lol. Marner to me seems kind of not to bright though . The majority of players are good at hiding their arrogance .

Exactly. It obvious he doesn’t like talking to reporter but he needs to be a little more personable.

 

[studebaker17]

Reporter: What do you have to do to make your chances fall
Marner: hope the puck goes in, passes the goal line....* huge sarcastic smile
Reporter: ok but your being paid to be a difference maker, what do you need to do...
Marner: smile drops "Yeah........ it goes in...proceeds to discuss getting chances.

Kudos to the reporter for calling his contract out after his ridiculous sarcastic smile and comment. Made Marner give a legit response, least he could do.

I'd like Keefe to keep Marner away from Matthews.... don't want him to get the easy points. Rather him have to work for the 11 million and suffer through the expectations.

I agree with keeping him away from Mathews to but probably for a different reason. Both players are easily capable of producing apart from each other and making their line mates better. In Marners case he's got it easy passing to Mathews so yeah having to be the guy , which is the level he's paid at , to produce away from Mathews will require more work from him. In the end i think we'd have 2 lines more the sum of what we have now.

 

[ACC1224]

Name a hockey player who's not arrogant in some regard lol. Marner to me seems kind of not to bright though . The majority of players are good at hiding their arrogance .

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