Mitch Marner Continued II

[francis246]

No, a career best 61 points playing sheltered minutes was not worth 7 million for 6 years. His literal counterpart Ehlers signed for 6.5 x 7, a better deal for virtually the same player.


If 7 x 6 is dubas having the leverage then…….. i don’t even know. Dubas folded way too hard if this is true, at that point you hard ball nylander for 6 x 6 or a bridge deal around 4 million or he sits. We were sweltering hot around that time anyways and were a top 3 team at the time

why are still you crying over $490,000? The Nylander deal is an absolute steal at the moment. RFA’s who score 40 points are getting 8 million and you guys are STILL crying over both the Nylander and Marner contracts. It’s gotten to a whole new level of pettiness.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

No, a career best 61 points playing sheltered minutes was not worth 7 million for 6 years. His literal counterpart Ehlers signed for 6.5 x 7, a better deal for virtually the same player.


If 7 x 6 is dubas having the leverage then…….. i don’t even know. Dubas folded way too hard if this is true, at that point you hard ball nylander for 6 x 6 or a bridge deal around 4 million or he sits. We were sweltering hot around that time anyways and were a top 3 team at the time

7M is the going rate for a 60+ pt player. Look at some of the contracts signed this offseason as comparables. B.Tkachuk got 8.2 and has been a 50+ pts guy. Suzuki signed for 7.5 and has a career pace of 50 pts. Hyman and Danault got 5.5 and are 50 and 40 pt guys. Boeser is another RFA comparable who is making just under 6M and is a 60+pt player but his contract was only 3 years and didn't buy up UFA years. There are plenty of 7M+ contracts around the league that I could also point out that Aren't producing.

Willy has been producing at a 70 pt pace since signing that contract and is at an 80 pts pace so far this year. His contract was fair for both sides then and is looking great now. Willy's contract isn't the one to complain about on this team. Posters I guess still cling to him because he held out till December and started the whole holdout snowball but his contract is more than fine. Like i said before, Marner's negotiation is the one I look at as Dubas caving but at the same time he has the 7th highest cap hit in the league but has also been top 10 in scoring the last 2 years, so it is hard to argue there that it is a bad contract (playoff struggles aside). JT's contract is the one that is going to be the one that looks bad as it ages.

 

[Stephen]

I as a fan hope any player on any given day might do that. That is why we watch sports. To say he might is what we should expect from sport. To say he wont...which has been the tone by many here, just sound sulky and petty.

Not petty. Adjusting expectations.

Marner ran into trouble in this market because he insisted he was every bit as important as Auston Matthews and demanded the money as proof. And ever since then his storyline it’s just been a running list of how he doesn’t do A,B,C… X, Y, Z.

Well, stop asking him to. Focus on getting those points aka what he’s reliable and elite at and uncouple Marner’s big game, clutch, goal scoring, whatever issues like it’s a team wide Leafs issue.

 

[Dekes For Days]

What's exhausting is the thousands of posts with regular season numbers to show how awesome Marner is.

No, what's exhausting is thousands of posts cherry picking tiny samples of production with no context or consideration for anything else to dismiss how awesome Marner is.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Marner ran into trouble in this market because he insisted he was every bit as important as Auston Matthews and demanded the money as proof.

Marner did not get Matthews money. He just wanted to be paid appropriately.

 

[ACC1224]

What's exhausting is the thousands of posts with regular season numbers to show how awesome Marner is. Listen carefully now. Are you listening?

Get back to us when he has brag worthy playoff numbers but until then, give it a rest already with the regular season numbers, nobody cares.

All of it is tiring. If there was a redundancy police they would be dispatched in full force here daily.

 

[Notsince67]

All of it is tiring. If there was a redundancy police they would be dispatched in full force here daily.

Yup. They would cite the bottom part of this rule:
3) Spamming: Posts that advertise anything without the authorization of site Administrators may be considered “spam”. If you wish to advertise on HFBoards please contact [email protected]. No money leagues are allowed in the Fantasy Talk forum. Do not post the same content multiple times, whether on the same forum, or across multiple forums.

 

[MJK]

The “wait till Matt gets back” argument is weak, and loser mentality. Your top players have to be your top players.

Exactly!!! $11m……he needs Matthews!?!?
Just a godawful contract!

 

[IPS]

No, what's exhausting is thousands of posts cherry picking tiny samples of production with no context or consideration for anything else to dismiss how awesome Marner is.

You mean the playoffs? Where you have to play well in order to achieve a larger sample size?

 

[81Leafs50]

Do yourself a favor and don't look up Marner's even-strength goal numbers, they may destroy your narrative.

He doesn't score on the PP is a more accurate assessment.

And Marner can drive a line and has in the past easily.

FACT. Assists are no scoring. Scoring is putting the puck in the net.

Matthews score goals regardless of who is passing to him.

Matthews is being wasted. Sundin all over again. Matthews needs a Panarin, Draisaitl, P Kane .... a true scorer on his line. Matthews is going to waste all of his time in Toronto playing with losers like Mitch, Ritchie, etc.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

There is no doubt he caved, who called who first is irrelevant unless you believe that Dubas NEVER would have called him back. Even his harshest critic wouldn’t believe him to be that incompetent.

His bigger mistakes though were first not taking Marners initial offer and then signing Matthew’s first.

Done now, most should just move on like the rest have.

Nylander was very close to missing the entire season and his contract is also a value contract today .

These are not characteristics that exist if your GM caved. Who calls back who also matters. If the other party is calling you back as well saying "okay fine", that is also not a characteristic of you caving.

 

[Gary Nylund]

FACT. Assists are no scoring. Scoring is putting the puck in the net.

Matthews score goals regardless of who is passing to him.

Matthews is being wasted. Sundin all over again. Matthews needs a Panarin, Draisaitl, P Kane .... a true scorer on his line. Matthews is going to waste all of his time in Toronto playing with losers like Mitch, Ritchie, etc.

This is way over the top. What Matthews needs is a playmaker, someone like ... wait for it ... Marner.

I wish Marner was more of a threat to score and a number of things piss me off about that boy but let's be serious here, a generational scoring talent and an elite playmaker is a match made in heaven and that's exactly what M&M are.

 

[IPS]

FACT. Assists are no scoring. Scoring is putting the puck in the net.

Matthews score goals regardless of who is passing to him.

Matthews is being wasted. Sundin all over again. Matthews needs a Panarin, Draisaitl, P Kane .... a true scorer on his line. Matthews is going to waste all of his time in Toronto playing with losers like Mitch, Ritchie, etc.

What exactly does hyperbole like this do for you?

 

[DraftSchmaft]

This is way over the top. What Matthews needs is a playmaker, someone like ... wait for it ... Marner.

I wish Marner was more of a threat to score and a number of things piss me off about that boy but let's be serious here, a generational scoring talent and an elite playmaker is a match made in heaven and that's exactly what M&M are.

Marners issue is he's become too predictable. Teams have him figured out especially because his range to be a shooter threat is limited (range as in distance from the net).

Nylander is on the verge of surpassing him in impact because he's versatile. You need him to get zone and drive plays, he can do it. You need him to cycle and play slow he can do it. You need him to crash the net, stay on perimeter, shoot, play make, run and gun, he can do it.

Now he's even getting some PK time.

Marner has become very one dimensional on offence. He needs to forget about talent for a second and think about new approaches to his playing style. He hasn't even ran a single play for Ritchie yet. Teams will lock down him and matthews same way habs did. Not dynamic right now.

Odds are high he breaks out of this slump but it needs to be soon and remain that way into playoffs.

 

[namttebih]

No, a career best 61 points playing sheltered minutes was not worth 7 million for 6 years. His literal counterpart Ehlers signed for 6.5 x 7, a better deal for virtually the same player.
In the regular season. Nylander continues to produce in the playoffs- the same can't be said for Ehlers.

If 7 x 6 is dubas having the leverage then…….. i don’t even know. Dubas folded way too hard if this is true, at that point you hard ball nylander for 6 x 6 or a bridge deal around 4 million or he sits. We were sweltering hot around that time anyways and were a top 3 team at the time

In the regular season. Nylander produces in the playoffs. The same can't be said for Ehlers.

 

[ACC1224]

Nylander was very close to missing the entire season and his contract is also a value contract today .

These are not characteristics that exist if your GM caved. Who calls back who also matters. If the other party is calling you back as well saying "okay fine", that is also not a characteristic of you caving.

The details of the call were released? How many times did each party call each other during the time he sat out?
How much money did Nylander lose by sitting out?

 

[Aashir]

7M is the going rate for a 60+ pt player. Look at some of the contracts signed this offseason as comparables. B.Tkachuk got 8.2 and has been a 50+ pts guy. Suzuki signed for 7.5 and has a career pace of 50 pts. Hyman and Danault got 5.5 and are 50 and 40 pt guys. Boeser is another RFA comparable who is making just under 6M and is a 60+pt player but his contract was only 3 years and didn't buy up UFA years. There are plenty of 7M+ contracts around the league that I could also point out that Aren't producing.

Willy has been producing at a 70 pt pace since signing that contract and is at an 80 pts pace so far this year. His contract was fair for both sides then and is looking great now. Willy's contract isn't the one to complain about on this team. Posters I guess still cling to him because he held out till December and started the whole holdout snowball but his contract is more than fine. Like i said before, Marner's negotiation is the one I look at as Dubas caving but at the same time he has the 7th highest cap hit in the league but has also been top 10 in scoring the last 2 years, so it is hard to argue there that it is a bad contract (playoff struggles aside). JT's contract is the one that is going to be the one that looks bad as it ages.

Ya no there’s a difference between being a fair contract now vs at the time of signing. He’s doing more with less now. Before he played with Matthews and was a perimeter 60 point player, now he’s a 70 point player with john Tavares, a objectively worse Center.

I guess we can agree to disagree on the original fairness of the contract, but since then it’s undeniable he’s lived up to it

 

[ToneDog]

Nylander was very close to missing the entire season and his contract is also a value contract today .

These are not characteristics that exist if your GM caved. Who calls back who also matters. If the other party is calling you back as well saying "okay fine", that is also not a characteristic of you caving.

Why would u pay Nylander for the 2 months he sat out if Nylander caved? He should have let 88 sit out the season and send a message to the rest of the team, instead he sent them the opposite message and paid for it with 16 and 34.

 

[Aashir]

In the regular season. Nylander produces in the playoffs. The same can't be said for Ehlers.

Fair enough, but he also got 500k less, and 1 more year. Nylander since signing his contract has 14 in 19 which is a 60 point pace. Ehlers has like 5 in 16 in that same span

 

[namttebih]

“Stupid is as stupid does”.

I don't think so. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
As white collar as the ACC is, most Leaf fans want to see someone who pours their heart out and is humble to be a Leaf- especially one who is homegrown and fully aware of the hero status which is awarded to a performer in this town. Rightly or wrongly, Mitch has received press eluding to the contrary. Whether this is the fault of his dad, his agent or himself is up for debate. What I will say is that he was my favorite player on the team. I've had the opportunity to meet him twice- once at an event and another time in a more intimate situation. I walked away for both occurrences with a fouled opinion of him. The contact situation- especially demanding the A made it even worse. I think that it's totally disrespectful that Muzzin doesn't have a letter. Hell, I'd give it to Spezza over Mitch.

As I Leaf fan I cheer for him, hope that he matures and becomes the playoff monster that he can be. At this point though, he is far from my favorite player.

 

[namttebih]

Fair enough, but he also got 500k less, and 1 more year. Nylander since signing his contract has 14 in 19 which is a 60 point pace. Ehlers has like 5 in 16 in that same span

If anything it's equal value IMO

 

[yubbers]

why are still you crying over $490,000? The Nylander deal is an absolute steal at the moment. RFA’s who score 40 points are getting 8 million and you guys are STILL crying over both the Nylander and Marner contracts. It’s gotten to a whole new level of pettiness.

So what's Pasta then? A super steal? You're just not used to seeing us having contracts that aren't overpayments :p

 

[namttebih]

So what's Pasta then? A super steal? You're just not used to seeing us having contracts that aren't overpayments :p

Yes

 

[IPS]

Why would u pay Nylander for the 2 months he sat out if Nylander caved? He should have let 88 sit out the season and send a message to the rest of the team, instead he sent them the opposite message and paid for it with 16 and 34.

Yeah but with signing Marner, the series of moves that Dubas made prior was stupid beyond belief.

-Traded Kadri for Barrie, who was on a 1 year contract. Dubas' big move to solve the D and it's for a guy on a 1 year contract.
-Burned a 1st round pick to move Marleau, clearing money for Mitch to take
-Trades for LTIR contracts to accommodate a Marner holdout.

He literally handed Marner all the leverage he needed on a silver platter. You burn one of your best trade assets (Kadri) for a guy on a 1 year deal while you STILL need to sign Marner? AND ALL WITH A BURNED 1ST ROUND PICK FROM THE MARLEAU TRADE!

You basically told the kid you're going all-in this year and you're an important part of it, so we need you signed no matter what.

I don't blame Marner that far. Dubas was incompetent beyond belief during that whole negotiation.

 

[34]

Marner’s contract got ugly real quick. Not surprised, he should be paid less than Nylander.