Miscellaneous NHL Discussion LXXXVII: What An Ugly Number

[blackjackmulligan]

Probably not a lot of top pair dman available for trade at this time. If/when Sanheim goes on the market what will the expected return be for a top pair dman?

Surely he can be a diff maker for cup contending team.

 

[Flyerfan18]

Sanheim continues to be an amazing way to gauge people's hockey knowledge.

Claiming he wouldn't be on the top pair on a contender is just screaming "I have no clue what I'm talking about" at the top of your lungs.

Sanheim is not close to a 1-2 on any team. He has talent no doubt but watch his end to end rush and then Fade to the corner move. He must have a patent on it.

That you think he is a top defensemen shows how limited your hockey knowledge is

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

We can’t all be geniuses who think Rasmus Ristolainen is good.

 

[deadhead]

What's interesting is Risto is close to elite at puck retrieval in the D-zone, Sanheim is close to the top in D-zone exits, gee, I wonder if it makes sense to pair someone who's really good at getting the puck with a partner who's good at taking that puck and moving it out of the D-zone?

The other thing Risto does well is shoot the puck, with a D-partner who's good at carrying and passing the puck.

Maybe they are a good fit with complementary skills? Nah.

Thank you for helping show how idiotic your boy is for refusing to use Zamula.

Of course, if you take that to its logical conclusion, Yandle wasn't the problem - it was pairing him with Seeler and Connauton since he played so well with Attard and Zamula! Unless of course, you believe in GF - GA over advanced metrics.

 

[sauce88]

What's interesting is Risto is close to elite at puck retrieval in the D-zone, Sanheim is close to the top in D-zone exits, gee, I wonder if it makes sense to pair someone who's really good at getting the puck with a partner who's good at taking that puck and moving it out of the D-zone?

The other thing Risto does well is shoot the puck, with a D-partner who's good at carrying and passing the puck.

Maybe they are a good fit with complementary skills? Nah.


Of course, if you take that to its logical conclusion, Yandle wasn't the problem - it was pairing him with Seeler and Connauton since he played so well with Attard and Zamula! Unless of course, you believe in GF - GA over advanced metrics.

No what that shows is Ristolainen has the speed to reach the puck first but doesn't have the IQ or first pass ability to exit the zone. He's usually getting to the puck first and eating a hit to try and make a play, and it's only working 20% of the time.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

How are these statistics tracked, how much subjectivity is involved, how much bias may be involved, are they extrapolated from small samples or do they try to track every play every player makes in every game, etc?

 

[Beef Invictus]

How are these statistics tracked, how much subjectivity is involved, how much bias may be involved, are they extrapolated from small samples or do they try to track every play every player makes in every game, etc?

I know you've had this explained to you in the past.

 

[deadhead]

No what that shows is Ristolainen has the speed to reach the puck first but doesn't have the IQ or first pass ability to exit the zone. He's usually getting to the puck first and eating a hit to try and make a play, and it's only working 20% of the time.

Or he's deferring to his partner, which means he'd have a low percentage of zone exits.

 

[sauce88]

Or he's deferring to his partner, which means he'd have a low percentage of zone exits.

Or he's flinging it off the glass for an icing, which I saw quite a bit of this past season.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He routinely struggles to even get the puck to Sanheim.

 

[Curufinwe]

Zero percent for carry exits always makes me chuckle.

 

[Curufinwe]

Sanheim is not close to a 1-2 on any team. He has talent no doubt but watch his end to end rush and then Fade to the corner move. He must have a patent on it.

That you think he is a top defensemen shows how limited your hockey knowledge is

That’s cute considering you think Risto is good at defense even though he never has been in his nine year career. Not under any coach.

 

[Magua]

Last 20 games:

Sanheim - Risto 174 minutes, GF/GA 12/7, xGF% 46.91%
Provorov - York 153 minutes, 9/14, xGF% 50.31%
Provorov - Attard 88 minutes, 5/4, xGF% 57.99%
Provorov - Sanheim 78 minutes, 2/3, xGF% 40.80%
Sanheim - Hogberg 66 minutes, 1/1, xGF% 43.05%
Connauton - Attard 48 minutes, 2/4, xGF% 38.28%
Yandle - Zamula 47 minutes, 0/4, xGF% 59.53%
Yandle - Attard, 41 minutes, 3/3, xGF%, 55.43%
Connauton - Zamula, 40 minutes, 0/1, xGF% 65.49%

Guess they were right to extend Risto, Sanheim clearly played worse without him.

This is like a Deadhead Greatest Hits album. We have "All the Small Samples"; "No Context, No Cry"; "Relative Stats, What Are They Good For?"; closing out with everyone's favorite, "Fake Plastic Sarcasm."

What's interesting is Risto is close to elite at puck retrieval in the D-zone, Sanheim is close to the top in D-zone exits, gee, I wonder if it makes sense to pair someone who's really good at getting the puck with a partner who's good at taking that puck and moving it out of the D-zone?

This is a crude description of how hockey works within the flow of play. Yes, Ristolainen is good at the caveman-esque "oooo me want puck" thing. It neglects that he's constantly in positions to have to retrieve pucks because of major flaws elsewhere, which manifests in not impacting play positively. But more to your point, this is not basketball: Ristolainen does not rebound the ball and then hand it off to his point guard. A puck retrieval is a small window in hockey, and you can't always simply dump it off to your defense partner against an aggressive forecheck. It's hard in hockey to have one defender be utterly useless in creating a zone exit.

 

[Curufinwe]

What's interesting is Risto is close to elite at puck retrieval in the D-zone, Sanheim is close to the top in D-zone exits, gee, I wonder if it makes sense to pair someone who's really good at getting the puck with a partner who's good at taking that puck and moving it out of the D-zone?

The other thing Risto does well is shoot the puck, with a D-partner who's good at carrying and passing the puck.

Maybe they are a good fit with complementary skills? Nah.


Of course, if you take that to its logical conclusion, Yandle wasn't the problem - it was pairing him with Seeler and Connauton since he played so well with Attard and Zamula! Unless of course, you believe in GF - GA over advanced metrics.

You evidently don’t believe in goals or advanced metrics since both of them show Sanheim was the best regular defenseman on the team and Risto was the worst outside of Yandle who shouldn’t have even been in the league.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The idea that Yandle's problem was his partner is also a hilarious one.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Zero percent for carry exits always makes me chuckle.

5 more years baby....

 

[TB87]

 

[flyers0909]

This is like a Deadhead Greatest Hits album. We have "All the Small Samples"; "No Context, No Cry"; "Relative Stats, What Are They Good For?"; closing out with everyone's favorite, "Fake Plastic Sarcasm."



This is a crude description of how hockey works within the flow of play. Yes, Ristolainen is good at the caveman-esque "oooo me want puck" thing. It neglects that he's constantly in positions to have to retrieve pucks because of major flaws elsewhere, which manifests in not impacting play positively. But more to your point, this is not basketball: Ristolainen does not rebound the ball and then hand it off to his point guard. A puck retrieval is a small window in hockey, and you can't always simply dump it off to your defense partner against an aggressive forecheck. It's hard in hockey to have one defender be utterly useless in creating a zone exit.

Fake Plastic Sarcasm

 

[Flyerfan18]

That’s cute considering you think Risto is good at defense even though he never has been in his nine year career. Not under any coach.

I think Risto is a valuable player. That you and others don’t see the need for physicality is mystifying. Does he have warts. Yep but he more than makes up for them.

Our forwards might as well be called the Smurf parade. We need big physical players who use there size effectively

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I think Risto is a valuable player. That you and others don’t see the need for physicality is mystifying. Does he have warts. Yep but he more than makes up for them.

Our forwards might as well be called the Smurf parade. We need big physical players who use there size effectively

Zing...

well thats a take for sure....

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Last 20 games ES GF-GA
Sanheim 25-19 = +6
Provorov 17-29 = -12

Last 20 games ES GF/60 and GA/60
Sanheim 3.74 - 2.85
Provorov 2.57 - 4.38

Provorov threw a couple of sweet hip checks 4 years ago though, so obviously you can throw those numbers out the window.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

No what that shows is Ristolainen has the speed to reach the puck first but doesn't have the IQ or first pass ability to exit the zone. He's usually getting to the puck first and eating a hit to try and make a play, and it's only working 20% of the time.

Or that teams specifically target him when they have to dump the puck in.

 

[Curufinwe]

Being physical isn't enough to make up for being terrible at defending for a guy making $5m+ and playing 20 minutes a night. I would happy to have a guy like Zadorov being physical on the 3rd pairing.

Look at how easy it is for even a bad team to run circles around Risto's physicality.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I vomited so hard my head fell off when that second clip opened with talk of Yandles fake streak.