Miscellaneous NHL Discussion LXXXVII: What An Ugly Number

[blackjackmulligan]

Imagine ever standing up for Chuck Fletcher.

Now imagine your entire position when standing up for Chuck Fletcher revolves around vilifying the best player in franchise history.

Need I remind you, Fletch's favorite part of an orange is the white stuff left on the fruit part after you peel the skin off

Where is Eric Lindros being vilified?

 

[Beef Invictus]

lol whip that horse.

Can you enlighten me as to what that offer was that Giroux so kindly made to the Flyers. Tell me what he offered.

Has nothing to do with him being Captain. He had run his course here. It happens. Love fairy tales.

You've been told repeatedly. He offered to expand his trade list if Fletcher would bring him back. Fletcher could have kept a great player and gotten a better return.

Moving the goal post yet again. Ottawa wasn't being talked about.

Do you watch a lot of hockey by the way? Just curious.

Ottawa is pretty relevant. You claim he didn't want attention. That he wanted anonymity. That he wanted no pressure to win. Ottawa is the opposite of all that.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Why would he help out a franchise that has no plans for him? That is the exact scenario we saw unfold here.

Giroux was willing to play ball but once he was told that they had no plans for him he rightfully had no interest in helping the franchise.

Where was he told they had no plans for him? Serious question. Not caving into an ext doesn't close the door to a return to me.

When he was willing to play ball do you now what he was asking for?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Where was he told they had no plans for him? Serious question. Not caving into an ext doesn't close the door to a return to me.

When he was willing to play ball do you now what he was asking for?

Well the fact that they didn't agree to it and then there was not a single indication that they had any communication during free agency makes it pretty obvious. Something happened during this time period. It's pretty much impossible to deny.

However, I understand that you're going with the "have you seen the medical records?" defense so you'll always be "right."

 

[blackjackmulligan]

You've been told repeatedly. He offered to expand his trade list if Fletcher would bring him back. Fletcher could have kept a great player and gotten a better return.



Ottawa is pretty relevant. You claim he didn't want attention. That he wanted anonymity. That he wanted no pressure to win. Ottawa is the opposite of all that.

whip it good.

You have been told repeatedly that the GM didn't cave into his demands. Nor should he have. Especially since you You have zero idea what he was asking for. An objective person may say without knowing the details the is was correct in not caving. Such a team guy offered to expand his list if you do what I ask. Sounds like extortion to me.

Still waiting for you to tell me what deal did Giroux offer Chuck to come back.

No matter the outcome with Giroux you would have piss and moaned, complained ,whined, and all else while blaming the GM one way or another for making a bad deal.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Well the fact that they didn't agree to it and then there was not a single indication that they had any communication during free agency makes it pretty obvious. Something happened during this time period. It's pretty much impossible to deny.

However, I understand that you're going with the "have you seen the medical records?" defense so you'll always be "right."

Because Chuck didn't agree means he is wrong. Got it.

Is it possible Chuck said not going to agree to an ext now though lets revisit in the summer?

When free agency started I would imagine Giroux felt slighted and never bothered to reach out to the Flyers. Probably same on the Flyers end .Goes back to what actually happened during the deadline period.

 

[Beef Invictus]

whip it good.

You have been told repeatedly that the GM didn't cave into his demands. Nor should he have. Especially since you You have zero idea what he was asking for. An objective person may say without knowing the details the is was correct in not caving. Such a team guy offered to expand his list if you do what I ask. Sounds like extortion to me.

Still waiting for you to tell me what deal did Giroux offer Chuck to come back.

No matter the outcome with Giroux you would have piss and moaned, complained ,whined, and all else while blaming the GM one way or another for making a bad deal.

A GM shouldn't take the best offer available? Weird.

If Giroux had been dealt for a good return and brought back I'd have praised Fletcher for maximizing value. You're wrong.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

A GM shouldn't take the best offer available? Weird.

If Giroux had been dealt for a good return and brought back I'd have praised Fletcher for maximizing value. You're wrong.

He did take the best deal as was only able to deal with 1 team. Unless you know what other players Florida offered. Weird indeed.

You would not have praised him in any way. Don't you want this team to rebuild? So why would you wan this back anyway? Having hi back does nothing to help the team to move forward.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Giroux will always be our real daddy.

Torts can try this step dad role, but we know where the loyalty lies.

 

[Rebels57]

Imagine ever standing up for Chuck Fletcher.

Now imagine your entire position when standing up for Chuck Fletcher revolves around vilifying the best player in franchise history.

Need I remind you, Fletch's favorite part of an orange is the white stuff left on the fruit part after you peel the skin off

My guy, I love Giroux as well, but he's decidedly not the best player in franchise history lol

 

[ajgoal]

My guy, I love Giroux as well, but he's decidedly not the best player in franchise history lol

Eh, I get it if you take his longevity over Lindros into account, though I also can understand considering peak Lindros vs. peak Giroux and concluding Lindros was better.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Bobby Clarke is tied for 4th all-time with 3 Hart Trophies. Only 8 players in the 98-year history of the award have won 3 or more MVPs.

He was the best player on the Flyers' only two Stanley Cup teams, and the NHL team that dominated the Red Army.

And people want to say Claude Giroux is better. LOL.

 

[Curufinwe]

Eh, I get it if you take his longevity over Lindros into account, though I also can understand considering peak Lindros vs. peak Giroux and concluding Lindros was better.

Clarke.

 

[renberg]

Bobby Clarke is tied for 4th all-time with 3 Hart Trophies. Only 8 players in the 98-year history of the award have won 3 or more MVPs.

He was the best player on the Flyers' only two Stanley Cup teams, and the NHL team that dominated the Red Army.

And people want to say Claude Giroux is better. LOL.

Although he isn't very popular around here these days, Bill Barber says "Hi" as well. Giroux passed Bill Barber in some areas for the Flyers history but he played two more seasons than BB. Barber's +/- (not the greatest stat but one that exists none the less) for a career of 312 is phenomenal as is his season's best in '75 of 74. His play could be ridiculous at times.

 

[Flyerfan18]

Why would he help out a franchise that has no plans for him? That is the exact scenario we saw unfold here.

Giroux was willing to play ball but once he was told that they had no plans for him he rightfully had no interest in helping the franchise.

Why don’t you quote facts? Instead it’s some made up bullshit with absolutely zero credibility. But ya some bozo on social media said it was fact so who cares if there was any evidence to support it.

Unless it comes from Giroux or his agent this is what happened it didn’t. Agents could be embellishing things to but no more than the teams do

 

[Rebels57]

Eh, I get it if you take his longevity over Lindros into account, though I also can understand considering peak Lindros vs. peak Giroux and concluding Lindros was better.

You don't have to like what he did post-career, but Bobby Clarke is the top forward in the franchises history. Followed by Lindros.

Giroux is the best of the next tier with Barber, Leach, LeClair, Brind'Amour, Recchi, Kerr, etc.

Then you have non-forwards like Parent and Howe that should be, IMO, listed above Giroux as well.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He did take the best deal as was only able to deal with 1 team. Unless you know what other players Florida offered. Weird indeed.

You would not have praised him in any way. Don't you want this team to rebuild? So why would you wan this back anyway? Having hi back does nothing to help the team to move forward.

No, he had the means to have a better deal and he chose to have a worse one. Especially since he let it leak that Florida was it. He could have gotten more and ended up keeping a great player to boot.

I would have praised him for extracting actual value, value which would have helped rebuild the team. I have praised him in the past. Unfortunately I've been wrong every time I did.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Bobby Clarke is tied for 4th all-time with 3 Hart Trophies. Only 8 players in the 98-year history of the award have won 3 or more MVPs.

He was the best player on the Flyers' only two Stanley Cup teams, and the NHL team that dominated the Red Army.

And people want to say Claude Giroux is better. LOL.

Bobby Clarke is tied for 4th all-time with 3 Hart Trophies. Only 8 players in the 98-year history of the award have won 3 or more MVPs.

He was the best player on the Flyers' only two Stanley Cup teams, and the NHL team that dominated the Red Army.

And people want to say Claude Giroux is better. LOL.

Bernie got him those cups........

No, he had the means to have a better deal and he chose to have a worse one. Especially since he let it leak that Florida was it. He could have gotten more and ended up keeping a great player to boot.

I would have praised him for extracting actual value, value which would have helped rebuild the team. I have praised him in the past. Unfortunately I've been wrong every time I did.

Of course he had the means. Absolutely. According to you.

Now Chuck let it leak. Nothing but facts in your world.

 

[TCTC]

Bobby Clarke is tied for 4th all-time with 3 Hart Trophies. Only 8 players in the 98-year history of the award have won 3 or more MVPs.

He was the best player on the Flyers' only two Stanley Cup teams, and the NHL team that dominated the Red Army.

And people want to say Claude Giroux is better. LOL.

If you include every player in franchise history Giroux may not even be in the top 5.

 

[renberg]

This is going to get ugly. Unfortunately many of the followers on this site never saw some of the older guys play to know how good they were. You can see the games in You Tube but it lacks the atmosphere in which these guys rose to the occasion. Just for giggles, who is Giroux going to knock off of the LCB line? The MacLeish-Lonsberry-Dornhoefer, or the LOD trio? Not happening. He simply is the best Flyer of the last decade which is no dishonor but be careful where that gets put in the history of the club. Sadly, they won nothing.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

If you include every player in franchise history Giroux may not even be in the top 5.

I agree. I don't rank him top 5.

 

[DancingPanther]

My guy, I love Giroux as well, but he's decidedly not the best player in franchise history lol

Nah, he is. He would roast Clarke any day in his prime, as most modern players would. Clarke is obviously a great player but 70s hockey was slow and not creative. Not to mention the goalies! I could notch a tuck or 2 even just ripping it from just outside the blue line. Just give me a few games. Lindros is the only player who even comes close, but then it's the whole longevity thing. Clode reigns supreme.

But that's all honestly beside the point.

 

[freakydallas13]

This is going to get ugly. Unfortunately many of the followers on this site never saw some of the older guys play to know how good they were. You can see the games in You Tube but it lacks the atmosphere in which these guys rose to the occasion. Just for giggles, who is Giroux going to knock off of the LCB line? The MacLeish-Lonsberry-Dornhoefer, or the LOD trio? Not happening. He simply is the best Flyer of the last decade which is no dishonor but be careful where that gets put in the history of the club. Sadly, they won nothing.

....

Are you saying Ross Lonsberry and his career high of 55 points is better than Giroux?

 

[DancingPanther]

Lol @Striiker

 

[Beef Invictus]

Bernie got him those cups........


Of course he had the means. Absolutely. According to you.

Now Chuck let it leak. Nothing but facts in your world.

You don't think Fletcher had the ability to say "yes?" Why?

The Flyers have leaked excessively since Fletcher took over. Who else is to blame?