Miscellaneous NHL Discussion LXXXV: Halfway to Christmas

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I’m not sure how much more I can take from this dumpster fire organization.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Is Coghlan any good?

Idk if he's good, but he's interesting. Which is kind of their M.O. when it comes to RHD. They just throw so many darts at these types. The Flyers throw ~19 million at it and maybe one is useable.

Carolina is a contender, drafts their ass off every year, and still has the cap space to take on ~$13 million in cap on Day 1 of free agency without giving up anything. I'm a little surprised they didn't go harder after Johnny because he's the exact type of player they need but I'm guessing committing big cap to 30+ is a no go for them.

If they don't interview Tulsky next year and instead go with Briere...

 

[deadhead]

Dorion is just a lucky GM?

Yes, he took over a total shitshow, which also meant he could sell sell sell.
He started out trading Zibanejad and a 2nd for Brassard
He also traded the 1st rd pick that became Byram for Duchene.

Then in Feb 2018 he started rebuilding-
Dunn and Brassard for 2018 1st and Ian Cole
Cole for 2018 3rd
Karlsson for (2) 1st rd picks, 2nd rd pick, Norris C, Tierney C, DeMelo D
DeMelo for 2020 3rd
flipped Duchene at TDL for 2019 1st
Stone for Brannstrom, Lindberg, 2020 2nd
Ceci and 2020 3rd for Zaitsev and Connor Brown
Pageau for 2020 1st, 2nd
2020 2nd for Murray
M Reilly for 2022 3rd
Dadanov for 2023 3rd, Holden
Paul for Joseph, 2024 4th

 

[Starat327]

They really need to fix this ignore issue

 

[landsbergfan]

won't be because of money...what else could it be???

 

[Deadpool8812]

won't be because of money...what else could it be???

Not surprised Elliot let that in

 

[The Rage Kage]

Yes, he took over a total shitshow, which also meant he could sell sell sell.
He started out trading Zibanejad and a 2nd for Brassard
He also traded the 1st rd pick that became Byram for Duchene.

Then in Feb 2018 he started rebuilding-
Dunn and Brassard for 2018 1st and Ian Cole
Cole for 2018 3rd
Karlsson for (2) 1st rd picks, 2nd rd pick, Norris C, Tierney C, DeMelo D
DeMelo for 2020 3rd
flipped Duchene at TDL for 2019 1st
Stone for Brannstrom, Lindberg, 2020 2nd
Ceci and 2020 3rd for Zaitsev and Connor Brown
Pageau for 2020 1st, 2nd
2020 2nd for Murray
M Reilly for 2022 3rd
Dadanov for 2023 3rd, Holden
Paul for Joseph, 2024 4th

A lot of the selling the sens did was because of the soft cap Melnyk had them under. If you want to give the benefit of the doubt to any gm in the league with regards to executive interference Dorion (and Murray before him) have to be at the top of your list

 

[deadhead]

A lot of the selling the sens did was because of the soft cap Melnyk had them under. If you want to give the benefit of the doubt to any gm in the league with regards to executive interference Dorion (and Murray before him) have to be at the top of your list

Though this may be a case of saving the man from himself, given the two awful trades he made to start his tenure.

Then he was forced to sell, and it's always easier to make good deals when you're selling (don't have to worry about fitting salary under the cap), because there are always GMs under pressure to win who will overpay.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Philly was home until Fletcher refused to have him.

At least you are very consistent. Still pushing that narrative.

 

[Beef Invictus]

At least you are very consistent. Still pushing that narrative.

We could have afforded him. He preferred TDA and Risto and a big pile of crap.

Don't know how you doubt it at this point besides stubbornness, especially with how badly this team leaks info

 

[Curufinwe]

I like the Palat deal for NJ.

 

[Lindberg]

I like the Pat deal for NJ.

Could be a good signing and inject some winner attitude in the team. The Devils have quite a bit of cap space to work with and a lot of young players.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

We could have afforded him. He preferred TDA and Risto and a big pile of crap.

Don't know how you doubt it at this point besides stubbornness, especially with how badly this team leaks info

Doubt what? What stubbornness?

So the GM didn’t bend over and cave in to Giroux’s demands. Of which neither you or I know what he was asking for in his next contract. Yeah such a dick move by the GM right?

Do you ever have any new topics to get a discussion going? Seems you rehash the same tired arguments day after day.

 

[Lindberg]

Doubt what? What stubbornness?

So the GM didn’t bend over and cave in to Giroux’s demands. Of which neither you or I know what he was asking for in his next contract. Yeah such a dick move by the GM right?

Do you ever have any new topics to get a discussion going? Seems you rehash the same tired arguments day after day.

I think it's pretty clear that Giroux would have liked to re-sign here.

I don't blame him for not chasing a cup with Colorado/Carolina and prioritizing family/old friends over money/cup.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

I think it's pretty clear that Giroux would have liked to re-sign here.

I don't blame him for not chasing a cup with Colorado/Carolina and prioritizing family/old friends over money/cup.

He didn't want to be traded. That was pretty clear.

It was time to turn the page on Giroux. His expiration date had long been expired. With or without him this franchise is a dysfunctional mess. There really is very little hope fore the foreseeable future. It would take a total complete purge to get back on track. New people in every role.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Doubt what? What stubbornness?

So the GM didn’t bend over and cave in to Giroux’s demands. Of which neither you or I know what he was asking for in his next contract. Yeah such a dick move by the GM right?

Do you ever have any new topics to get a discussion going? Seems you rehash the same tired arguments day after day.

Oh you want me to stop talking about the one thing that you can no longer logically maintain now that he chased family connections and familiarity as a priority, indicating he always wanted to be here like he said and increasingly reliable sources indicated?

Basic good management would have been maximizing his value, and getting to have him back especially since character is supposedly so important. Fletcher chose to do neither for no reason being idiotic incompetence. We know now he wasn't very dedicated to bringing in JG so it's not like he needed the cap space for that.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He didn't want to be traded. That was pretty clear.

It was time to turn the page on Giroux. His expiration date had long been expired. With or without him this franchise is a dysfunctional mess. There really is very little hope fore the foreseeable future. It would take a total complete purge to get back on track. New people in every role.

He was still the best player on the team by a wide margin. How is that expired?

Are you one of those guys who blames the captain for management failures?

More likely it was just another step in Fletcher's quest to build the team around Hayes.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Oh you want me to stop talking about the one thing that you can no longer logically maintain now that he chased family connections and familiarity as a priority, indicating he always wanted to be here like he said and increasingly reliable sources indicated?

Basic good management would have been maximizing his value, and getting to have him back especially since character is supposedly so important. Fletcher chose to do neither for no reason being idiotic incompetence. We know now he wasn't very dedicated to bringing in JG so it's not like he needed the cap space for that.

They couldn't maximize his value as he wouldn't let them, which was his prerogative. That is a 100% fact. So spin all the other stuff as much as you like.

He was still the best player on the team by a wide margin. How is that expired?

Are you one of those guys who blames the captain for management failures?

More likely it was just another step in Fletcher's quest to build the team around Hayes.

Has nothing to do with his talent or skill. He was stale. Whatever message he was selling as the captain was stale. Both needed a change long ago. He wasn't part of any solution going forward.

 

[tictactoe]

I like the Palat deal for NJ.

yes very solid.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They couldn't maximize his value as he wouldn't let them, which was his prerogative. That is a 100% fact. So spin all the other stuff as much as you like.


Has nothing to do with his talent or skill. He was stale. Whatever message he was selling as the captain was stale. Both needed a change long ago. He wasn't part of any solution going forward.

He told them how to maximize their value. Fletcher refused to do it. Players are allowed to have leverage. Giroux was very reasonable. Fletcher wasn't.


The captain doesn't have the influence you think they do. Red Wings fans said the same thing about Yzerman before he magically became the greatest leader since Howe. Yzerman didn't change at all, he just had a good team finally. The problem was never Giroux in any way, it is management. Always has been. Captains are overrated.

When Hayes becomes captain over Couturier, Hayes won't be at fault for what follows in any way. The only way it will matter is as a signal of what these fat slobs value most and as confirmation they're building the team around him like he's McDavid.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

He told them how to maximize their value. Fletcher refused to do it. Players are allowed to have leverage. Giroux was very reasonable. Fletcher wasn't.


The captain doesn't have the influence you think they do. Red Wings fans said the same thing about Yzerman before he magically became the greatest leader since Howe. Yzerman didn't change at all, he just had a good team finally. The problem was never Giroux in any way, it is management. Always has been. Captains are overrated.

When Hayes becomes captain over Couturier, Hayes won't be at fault for what follows in any way. The only way it will matter is as a signal of what these fat slobs value most and as confirmation they're building the team around him like he's McDavid.

Fletcher refused to extend him and cave to his demands. A rare good move. How can you say Giroux was reasonable when you have zero idea what his contracts demands looked like?

What influence do you think I think the captain has?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Fletcher refused to extend him and cave to his demands. A rare good move. How can you say Giroux was reasonable when you have zero idea what his contracts demands looked like?

What influence do you think I think the captain has?

We've seen what he asked of Ottawa, and we can safely assume he'd have taken even less to be here. Giroux wasn't asking for anything ridiculous. He asked Fletcher to trade him for a better return and then bring back the best player on the roster. Actually, that's extremely reasonable. Fletcher turning it down is unreasonable. He was offered a win-win and refused it.

You're acting like the captain is to blame for how the team is made and performs in any way. That's what your posting about "Giroux's message" says. That's simply not true. Captains aren't coaches or GMs. Flyers fans in particular fetishize the captaincy to absurd degrees because the Flyers (while Clarke was GM, hmmm) pounded out years of propaganda about how the C is everything and Clarke was the greatest of them all. Without Parent he'd just be remembered as a loser thug, though.

 

[landsbergfan]

nerds are at it again

 

[landsbergfan]

RIP

Patrick for Ellis an all timer

 

[JojoTheWhale]

If they don't interview Tulsky next year and instead go with Briere...

IF. IF he says.

"We tried a Harvard guy. Look where it got us!"