Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2023-24

[Wabit]

That's bound to happen when you make it effortlessly easy to shut down your best players by only having one good player per line

Two years ago Boldy was a rookie so you give him the benefit of the doubt

Shut down Fiala on that line and it's up to Boldy and Gaudreau
Shut down Kaprizov on that line and it's up to Hartman and Zuccarello (who's always injured+liability come playoffs anyway)

If you had a line of Kaprizov-Ek-Boldy for example, other team focuses on shutting down Kaprizov, fine, you still have Ek and Boldy who can hurt tou

Now you suddenly can't put all your energy into shutting down Kaprizov anymore, voila, Kaprizov is a threat again

Are we pretending Boldy was a difference maker 5v5 most of last season? The kid had 7p (5v5) over a 52 game stretch of the season. Greenway had 6p in 40 games over that same stretch and he was persona non-grata.

Funny how the liabilities in the Playoffs were the ones that produced, and the golden children who didn't get the pass.

 

[AKL]

Are we pretending Boldy was a difference maker 5v5 most of last season? The kid had 7p (5v5) over a 52 game stretch of the season. Greenway had 6p in 40 games over that same stretch and he was persona non-grata.

Funny how the liabilities in the Playoffs were the ones that produced, and the golden children who didn't get the pass.

Who was he playing with? Gaudreau and Steel? Foligno? Petan? Maybe Hartman sometimes?

What happened after the trade deadline when he was put with Johansson and Eriksson Ek? 23 points in 19 games? 19 of those points at even strength?

Is it really a mystery to you? Is it difficult to figure out?

Same thing with Rossi right now. We put him with Foligno and Gaudreau and we're gonna act surprised when the majority of his points probably come at times when he gets to play with guys like Boldy and Kaprizov? Are Boldy and Kaprizov carrying him, just like Fiala and Kaprizov apparently carried Boldy? Or do skilled players just mesh better with other skilled players?

This isn't a complicated concept lol. This is why most teams don't saddle their offensive players with dump and chase grinders. The Wild do. I don't see anyone else doing it if they can help it. The Wild seem to seek it out.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Who was he playing with? Gaudreau and Steel? Foligno? Petan? Maybe Hartman sometimes?

What happened after the trade deadline when he was put with Johansson and Eriksson Ek? 23 points in 19 games? 19 of those points at even strength?

Is it really a mystery to you? Is it difficult to figure out?

Same thing with Rossi right now. We put him with Foligno and Gaudreau and we're gonna act surprised when the majority of his points probably come at times when he gets to play with guys like Boldy and Kaprizov? Are Boldy and Kaprizov carrying him, just like Fiala and Kaprizov apparently carried Boldy? Or do skilled players just mesh better with other skilled players?

This isn't a complicated concept lol. This is why most teams don't saddle their offensive players with dump and chase grinders. The Wild do. I don't see anyone else doing it if they can help it. The Wild seem to seek it out.

Identity.

 

[Wabit]

Who was he playing with? Gaudreau and Steel? Foligno? Petan? Maybe Hartman sometimes?

What happened after the trade deadline when he was put with Johansson and Eriksson Ek? 23 points in 19 games? 19 of those points at even strength?

Is it really a mystery to you? Is it difficult to figure out?

Same thing with Rossi right now. We put him with Foligno and Gaudreau and we're gonna act surprised when the majority of his points probably come at times when he gets to play with guys like Boldy and Kaprizov? Are Boldy and Kaprizov carrying him, just like Fiala and Kaprizov apparently carried Boldy? Or do skilled players just mesh better with other skilled players?

This isn't a complicated concept lol. This is why most teams don't saddle their star players with dump and chase grinders. The Wild do. I don't see anyone else doing it if they can help it. The Wild seem to seek it out.

So blame the linemates again time, huh. Well overlook that Reaves, Foligno, Dewar, Freddy G, Steel, and 4 d-men had the same or more points. Duhaime had 5p in 29 games, Greenway 6p in 44 games, Shaw 6p in 40 games, Addison 6p in 49 games.

When the only regular players that is putting up points at a lesser pace are Goli and Middleton, then yes it's a problem with the individual player, not his line mates.

For sure, Boldy went on a hot streak for ~20 games, it happens all the time with players. Do you really think you a 30% sh% is something that he can maintain over the course of a season.

 

[AKL]

So blame the linemates again time, huh. Well overlook that Reaves, Foligno, Dewar, Freddy G, Steel, and 4 d-men had the same or more points. Duhaime had 5p in 29 games, Greenway 6p in 44 games, Shaw 6p in 40 games, Addison 6p in 49 games.

When the only regular players that is putting up points at a lesser pace are Goli and Middleton, then yes it's a problem with the individual player, not his line mates.

For sure, Boldy went on a hot streak for ~20 games, it happens all the time with players. Do you really think you a 30% sh% is something that he can maintain over the course of a season.

Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing, or do you actually think Reaves, Foligno, Dewar, Gaudreau, Steel, Duhaime and Greenway are as good or better offensive players than Boldy?

 

[AKL]

What a world we live in where Boldy has 48 EV points in 66 games playing with Fiala or Johansson/Eriksson Ek, and 18 EV points in the other 62 games playing with bottom six players, and we assume the problem is that Boldy just sucks, and not that his linemates are the problem, because his linemates produced 6-9 EV points in those 62 games.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

So blame the linemates again time, huh. Well overlook that Reaves, Foligno, Dewar, Freddy G, Steel, and 4 d-men had the same or more points. Duhaime had 5p in 29 games, Greenway 6p in 44 games, Shaw 6p in 40 games, Addison 6p in 49 games.

When the only regular players that is putting up points at a lesser pace are Goli and Middleton, then yes it's a problem with the individual player, not his line mates.

For sure, Boldy went on a hot streak for ~20 games, it happens all the time with players. Do you really think you a 30% sh% is something that he can maintain over the course of a season.

I think the 30% probably balanced out the 6.2% that he shot for the 52 game stretch that you're referring to, landing him at a nice and reasonable 12.2% for the season.

 

[Wabit]

What a world we live in where Boldy has 48 EV points in 66 games playing with Fiala or Johansson/Eriksson Ek, and 18 EV points in the other 62 games playing with bottom six players, and we assume the problem is that Boldy just sucks, and not that his linemates are the problem, because his linemates produced 6-9 EV points in those 62 games.

I guess the 200+ mins with JEE (4gf/2ga) and the 130+ mins with Kap (2gf/5ga) of 5v5 time prior to getting MarJo don't count?

Seriously 5v5 Boldy linemates was (prior to Mar 3rd):
-with either Kap or JEE for ~334 mins (6gf/7ga)
-without either of them for ~472 mins (14gf/18/ga)

 

[Wabit]

I think the 30% probably balanced out the 6.2% that he shot for the 52 game stretch that you're referring to, landing him at a nice and reasonable 12.2% for the season.

It sounds great if it's evenly spaced over a full season. Not so great when it's a Jekyll and Hyde situation.

 

[AKL]

I guess the 200+ mins with JEE (4gf/2ga) and the 130+ mins with Kap (2gf/5ga) of 5v5 time prior to getting MarJo don't count?

Seriously 5v5 Boldy linemates was (prior to Mar 3rd):
-with either Kap or JEE for ~334 mins (6gf/7ga)
-without either of them for ~472 mins (14gf/18/ga)

So just to clarify, you think Boldy is on the same level offensively as Reaves, Foligno, Dewar, Gaudreau, Steel, Duhaime and Greenway? So you must really hate his contract?

 

[Wabit]

So just to clarify, you think Boldy is on the same level offensively as Reaves, Foligno, Dewar, Gaudreau, Steel, Duhaime and Greenway? So you must really hate his contract?

I can't stand his contract. He should have been a $4m x 2 bridge deal.

Did I say I thought that what his level was? It's the level he played at 5v5 most of last year. He shanked so many shots it looked like he was taking shooting tips from Cal Clutterbuck.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It sounds great if it's evenly spaced over a full season. Not so great when it's a Jekyll and Hyde situation.

The Jekyll and Hyde thing isn't unexplainable though.

A young (1st/2nd year) player producing better when his line mates are consistently better than otherwise isn't really a weird thing. It actually seems quite normal and expected.

 

[JiricekSaveUs]

The only way he keeps his job is if Kaprizov re-signs.

Another pro on the side of letting 30yo Kaprizov walk

Reading the rest of this thread makes my head want to explode

 

[Wabit]

The Jekyll and Hyde thing isn't unexplainable though.

A young (1st/2nd year) player producing better when his line mates are consistently better than otherwise isn't really a weird thing. It actually seems quite normal and expected.

If it was Zucc putting up those same numbers people would be all over it as riding the coat tails of better players. Or better yet Steel last year, he was in and out of the pressbox and only riding the coattails of better players.

It's not the actual on ice product, it is what we want players to be. Rossi last year is the perfect example.

 

[JiricekSaveUs]

Rossi stat line prediction go:
6-25-31

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

If it was Zucc putting up those same numbers people would be all over it as riding the coat tails of better players. Or better yet Steel last year, he was in and out of the pressbox and only riding the coattails of better players.

It's not the actual on ice product, it is what we want players to be. Rossi last year is the perfect example.

The on-ice product was 63 points in 81 games a 21 year old. I think we all would've liked him to get there in a more consistent way, but them's the breaks.

I think there were reasons why Boldy struggled to produce during last season, and Boldy was part of those reasons. I also think there were reasons that Boldy produced really well at the end of the season, and Boldy was also part of those reasons.

He is now a $7M player, and he'll have the expectations as such. And, to be honest, I wasn't opposed to a bridge deal either.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

What a world we live in where Boldy has 48 EV points in 66 games playing with Fiala or Johansson/Eriksson Ek, and 18 EV points in the other 62 games playing with bottom six players, and we assume the problem is that Boldy just sucks, and not that his linemates are the problem, because his linemates produced 6-9 EV points in those 62 games.

Basically, this just means that Boldy isn't a line driver at the moment. He needs someone, particularly speedy, to drive the play for him to be successful.

Boldy's contract was always going to be something he grows into. They are paying for potential. Let's also not forget, Boldy is only ~5 months older than Rossi. He is super young.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Rossi stat line prediction go:
6-25-31

12-29-41

 

[AKL]

Basically, this just means that Boldy isn't a line driver at the moment. He needs someone, particularly speedy, to drive the play for him to be successful.

Boldy's contract was always going to be something he grows into. They are paying for potential. Let's also not forget, Boldy is only ~5 months older than Rossi. He is super young.

Don't agree with that. Johansson isn't driving that line either. Boldy is not Kaprizov, but he is very clearly the second most offensively gifted forward on the team.

Would have been nice to keep Fiala to be the actual line driver though while Boldy matures.

E: I agree he's not a line driver at the moment, I disagree that Johanssson is. He does need other good players to play with, but he doesn't need to be "carried" by a driver.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Don't agree with that. Johansson isn't driving that line either. Boldy is not Kaprizov, but he is very clearly the second most offensively gifted forward on the team.

Would have been nice to keep Fiala to be the actual line driver though while Boldy matures.

That's fine, I think Eriksson Ek is the best player on the Boldy-Ek-Johansson line anyways. I'm just saying he needs someone with speed to take advantage of the plays he makes. He meshed really well with Fiala. But I don't think he looks that great when he is out with Kaprizov for example.

Yep. It's hard to look at the contracts given out and not think they could have done a better job of trying to keep Fiala.

 

[AKL]

And again, for what it's worth, there is something to be said for these guys playing with other skilled players who they can more easily mesh with. Boldy has never played a grinding style with grinders in his life, because he is significantly more skilled than them, and his play style reflects that. If you want to get the most out of him, you need to put him with players who can play the type of game he's always played at every level prior to this.

We're about to have the same problems with Rossi too.

That's fine, I think Eriksson Ek is the best player on the Boldy-Ek-Johansson line anyways. I'm just saying he needs someone with speed to take advantage of the plays he makes. He meshed really well with Fiala. But I don't think he looks that great when he is out with Kaprizov for example.

Yep. It's hard to look at the contracts given out and not think they could have done a better job of trying to keep Fiala.

I think Eriksson Ek is the best overall player on that line for sure. He's underrated when it comes to allowing his wingers to flourish. We saw it on the GREEF line and we saw it at the end of the year on the BEEJ line. But when that line is at it's best, it's relying on Boldy in the offensive zone.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Rossi stat line prediction go:
6-25-31

11-30-41

 

[Wabit]

Just a question for these Rossi stat lines. How is he getting 25+ assists on a line with Foligno/Freddy G and playing PP2? 3a pp, 3a d-man goals, and 20a from on Freddy G/Foligno goals?

 

[JiricekSaveUs]

Just a question for these Rossi stat lines. How is he getting 25+ assists on a line with Foligno/Freddy G and playing PP2? 3a pp, 3a d-man goals, and 20a from on Freddy G/Foligno goals?

I think most projections are probably not based on the idea that that line will be in tact all season

 

[Wabit]

I think most projections are probably not based on the idea that that line will be in tact all season

I don't think it will be either. I was just going with the best case and not the Iowa callup or Maroon being moved to the line when Freddy G moves up in the lineup because of injuries.