Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2022-23

[Digitalbooya]

It's embarrassing how wild fans take Dumba for granted. Make up whatever excuse you want to discount him. The team was and is better with Dumba in the lineup.

Let me ask y'all this: if Dumba averages 21-22 minutes a night and Goligoski averages 17 minutes, who do you think is getting that other 5 minutes? Everyone's favorite golden child Calen Addison was a -2 with 16 minutes game played against Florida. The game before that? -2 with 9 even strength minutes...

 

[AKL]

If he's -2 both nights it doesn't sound like the extra minutes he had to play made any difference

 

[Wabit]

It's embarrassing how wild fans take Dumba for granted. Make up whatever excuse you want to discount him. The team was and is better with Dumba in the lineup.

Let me ask y'all this: if Dumba averages 21-22 minutes a night and Goligoski averages 17 minutes, who do you think is getting that other 5 minutes? Everyone's favorite golden child Calen Addison was a -2 with 16 minutes game played against Florida. The game before that? -2 with 9 even strength minutes...

What I've noticed is how bad the Middleton PK pairing has been.

I don't mind any of Merrill, Goli, Middleton, or Addison (Kulikov could be added as well) as a league min to $1.5m/yr bottom pair d-man. Having 2 of them as a bottom pair, okay it's a plug 3rd pairing, no biggie. 3 of them in the lineup is stretching further than it should go, and the goalie needs to bail them out. All 4 of them in the lineup is just a bad roster construction.

Just 2 seasons ago the d-corps was:
Brodin/Dumba
Suter/Spurgeon
Soucy/Cole (after a trade)

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It's embarrassing how wild fans take Dumba for granted. Make up whatever excuse you want to discount him. The team was and is better with Dumba in the lineup.

Let me ask y'all this: if Dumba averages 21-22 minutes a night and Goligoski averages 17 minutes, who do you think is getting that other 5 minutes? Everyone's favorite golden child Calen Addison was a -2 with 16 minutes game played against Florida. The game before that? -2 with 9 even strength minutes...

Weird projection.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Weird projection.

That’s not a projection. I’m 100% willing to trade him. He’s a defensive liability. His only useful trait is the power play. He can’t even outscore Jake f’n Middleton at 5v5. At least Middleton is a big body and can defend.

 

[Wabit]

That’s not a projection. I’m 100% willing to trade him. He’s a defensive liability. His only useful trait is the power play. He can’t even outscore Jake f’n Middleton at 5v5. At least Middleton is a big body and can defend.

Middleton is a big body, but he's not really physical player (none of the Wild d-men are). He can defend better than Addison, but that doesn't much.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

That’s not a projection. I’m 100% willing to trade him. He’s a defensive liability. His only useful trait is the power play. He can’t even outscore Jake f’n Middleton at 5v5. At least Middleton is a big body and can defend.

That's all fine. I just don't know what has been said to make him a "golden child". He's a young, developing player.

 

[Digitalbooya]

That's all fine. I just don't know what has been said to make him a "golden child". He's a young, developing player.

He’s a young player mooching of Kap-Zucc-Boldy on the power play. If Spurgeon was any good at the power play I’m not sure Addison would even be on the team.

 

[StateofCelly]

He’s a young player mooching of Kap-Zucc-Boldy on the power play. If Spurgeon was any good at the power play I’m not sure Addison would even be on the team.

Though I am both an Addison fan and a realist to what his even strength play has been this year, I find it blasphemous that we would be so willing to give up on a player with lots of tools, who is progressing at his position and getting stronger defensively. The irony of it all is so many are quick to point out that Boldy has not been super productive because the lack of having Fiala around, but forget that a kid trying to learn the defensive role in the NHL is also being paired with John Merrill... I think sitting Dumba without an impending deal seems odd when you have guys like Merrill in the lineup.

Would like to see:
Middleton-Spurgeon
Brodin-Dumba
Goligoski-Addison

Goli isn't what he once was, but adds an element of stability to the back end for someone needing to get progressively better every rep.

 

[57special]

He’s a young player mooching of Kap-Zucc-Boldy on the power play. If Spurgeon was any good at the power play I’m not sure Addison would even be on the team.

- Who's mooching off who?
- No one else was playing the PP point worth a damn. We finally get a guy who is, and you say he is "mooching"? WTF?

Addison makes sound, quick decisions. When he shoots, he gets it off quickly. So he's not the next Cale Makar...not sure what you are expecting. The guy is a rookie putting up the most points of any rookie dman in the league, at a position that we have had trouble filling(PP point), is a good skater and puck handler, and you're complaining? Would you rather have Suter, Brodin, Dumba or Spurgeon(already on the 2nd unit) playing the point?

Or Middleton, since he has more ES points, perhaps?

 

[Wabit]

- Who's mooching off who?
- No one else was playing the PP point worth a damn. We finally get a guy who is, and you say he is "mooching"? WTF?

Addison makes sound, quick decisions. When he shoots, he gets it off quickly. So he's not the next Cale Makar...not sure what you are expecting. The guy is a rookie putting up the most points of any rookie dman in the league, at a position that we have had trouble filling(PP point), is a good skater and puck handler, and you're complaining? Would you rather have Suter, Brodin, Dumba or Spurgeon(already on the 2nd unit) playing the point?

Or Middleton, since he has more ES points, perhaps?

If it's strictly the PP no. If the rest of their games are taken into account, then 100% of the time without a 2nd thought. Dumba isn't a guy I want on the point, but I'd take him over Addsion the other ~55 minutes of the game. Heck give Addison the same treatment Dumba got since he got into the league. It's 100% because he wasn't Burns and fans were still mad about that trade.

Addsion makes more bad plays every game than Dumba. The only answer is he's young and the PP... Addison is replaceable on the point without much fall off. Take Kap out of the PP and it's junk no matter who is on the point. Kap is the difference maker on the PP, not the guy on the point for MN.

 

[AKL]

If it's strictly the PP no. If the rest of their games are taken into account, then 100% of the time without a 2nd thought. Dumba isn't a guy I want on the point, but I'd take him over Addsion the other ~55 minutes of the game. Heck give Addison the same treatment Dumba got since he got into the league. It's 100% because he wasn't Burns and fans were still mad about that trade.

Addsion makes more bad plays every game than Dumba. The only answer is he's young and the PP... Addison is replaceable on the point without much fall off. Take Kap out of the PP and it's junk no matter who is on the point. Kap is the difference maker on the PP, not the guy on the point for MN.

PP was 20th in the league overall for the 2020-22 seasons, with Kaprizov, Ek, Zuccarello, Boldy for part of it, even Fiala at times. Was 18th last year with Kaprizov setting a franchise scoring record.

Now with Addison it's 11th. So maybe it's slightly more than just Kaprizov contributing to the PP. Maybe Addison has actually made a difference.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

If it's strictly the PP no. If the rest of their games are taken into account, then 100% of the time without a 2nd thought. Dumba isn't a guy I want on the point, but I'd take him over Addsion the other ~55 minutes of the game. Heck give Addison the same treatment Dumba got since he got into the league. It's 100% because he wasn't Burns and fans were still mad about that trade.

Addsion makes more bad plays every game than Dumba. The only answer is he's young and the PP... Addison is replaceable on the point without much fall off. Take Kap out of the PP and it's junk no matter who is on the point. Kap is the difference maker on the PP, not the guy on the point for MN.

Not exactly a glowing endorsement for the guy that you're replacing him with considering that guy (Spurgeon) is probably going to have ~750 more NHL games than him at this point.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

By the way, the team as a whole is bottom ~7 in the league in 5v5 scoring, are we really trying to lay that at the feet of a 22 year old rookie 3rd pair defenseman?

 

[AKL]

Team needs more skill and better skaters. Addison has skill and is a good skater. Super weird to want to trade him just because he's not a finished product as a 22 year old rookie.

 

[Wabit]

Not exactly a glowing endorsement for the guy that you're replacing him with considering that guy (Spurgeon) is probably going to have ~750 more NHL games than him at this point.

I could care less. Either be good or be gone rookie or vet doesn't matter to me one bit.

PP was 20th in the league overall for the 2020-22 seasons, with Kaprizov, Ek, Zuccarello, Boldy for part of it, even Fiala at times. Was 18th last year with Kaprizov setting a franchise scoring record.

Now with Addison it's 11th. So maybe it's slightly more than just Kaprizov contributing to the PP. Maybe Addison has actually made a difference.

Just for reference last year:
-The PP before Boldy was called up was 16.9%.
-The PP from the time Boldy was called up last year to the end of the season was 22.9%.

As a fair sample of the same amount of games this year compared to last the PP is 23.9% this year. The last 47 games of last season the PP was 23.3%. So between a .6% and 1% increase. Last year MN had 258 PP chances, so being generous that is a 3g difference over the entire season.

The team was top-5 in 5v5 play the last couple of seasons by almost all metrics. This year it's near the bottom by most metrics. So I'll take a couple % decrease on the PP for better 5v5 play.

Spurgeon+Boldy+Kap+Zucc+JEE last season had 44 mins PP ToI. 12gf/0ga 16.3gf/60
Addison+Boldy+Kap+Zucc+JEE this year have 133 mins PP ToI. 26gf/2ga 11.7 gf/60

By the way, the team as a whole is bottom ~7 in the league in 5v5 scoring, are we really trying to lay that at the feet of a 22 year old rookie 3rd pair defenseman?

Well he hasn't been helping matters.

 

[Digitalbooya]

- Who's mooching off who?
- No one else was playing the PP point worth a damn. We finally get a guy who is, and you say he is "mooching"? WTF?

Addison makes sound, quick decisions. When he shoots, he gets it off quickly. So he's not the next Cale Makar...not sure what you are expecting. The guy is a rookie putting up the most points of any rookie dman in the league, at a position that we have had trouble filling(PP point), is a good skater and puck handler, and you're complaining? Would you rather have Suter, Brodin, Dumba or Spurgeon(already on the 2nd unit) playing the point?

Or Middleton, since he has more ES points, perhaps?

-Certainly you’re not saying that Kaprizov-Zucc-Boldy are mooching off of Addison? Boldy might be mooching a little bit, but I think less than Addison. I don’t think their points would dramatically change either way if Spurgeon was running the unit.
-That’s the ONLY value Addison is currently providing. He’s not even a threat to shoot on the power play. 0 power play goals. He just moves the puck quickly, whereas Suter/Spurgeon were slow. That’s the only difference.

Sort that rookie defender column by ES points and he’s tied for 10th with a guy who has only played 13 games. Jon Merrill has more points than Addison during the time that 90% of the game is played at: even strength.

Addison has by far a team worst ES GF% amongst the regulars at 40.82%. The next closest regular is his d partner Merrill at 47.62%. Dumba is at 54% if people are wondering.

Should we get into offensive zone start %? Addison is a team high 60.75% offensive zone start % amongst the defenders. Dumba, Spurgeon, and Middleton are all at less than 43%. Brodin is 45%. How can Addison be giving up so many goals against when he’s being handed the offensive zone more than anyone else on the team?

Addison is a power play specialist and that’s it. I wouldn’t even call him great at it. He’s just better than than the sad group of players that are our other options for that spot.

How does Dumba get benched by the coach for his play, when numerically Addison has been way worse?? It makes zero sense.

If Brock Faber isn’t ready by next year, this defense that already looks ugly with Middleton, Merrill, and Addison in and Goligoski rotating in is going to look way worse.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Some people have patience, some don't.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Team needs more skill and better skaters. Addison has skill and is a good skater. Super weird to want to trade him just because he's not a finished product as a 22 year old rookie.

If Addison is so skillful and such a good skater, you’d think that would translate to even strength scoring.

By the way, the team as a whole is bottom ~7 in the league in 5v5 scoring, are we really trying to lay that at the feet of a 22 year old rookie 3rd pair defenseman?

It’s not 100% the even strength goals for, it’s the fact that he’s near the bottom of the team in even strength goals for per 60 while giving up the most even strength goals against per 60 amongst the six regulars (Brodin, Dumba, Spurgeon, Middleton, Addison, Merrill). The separation between #5 in GA/60 (Merrill - 2.29) and #6 (Addison - 3.26) is almost a whole goal against per 60. That’s catastrophic to a team like us that is winning more based on tight defense and goaltending than outscoring our problems like last year.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Some people have patience, some don't.

Some would like our better defender Dumba back in and Addison can sit a few games. Seems like it’s his turn since he had back to back -2 games, no? Maybe he can learn a thing or two from the press box about playing defense.

 

[AKL]

Some people have patience, some don't.

I can't imagine the reason for being this upset about a 22 year old rookie defenseman having things he needs to improve upon in a year where we're not even Cup contenders. It seems like there should be other things to worry about. It would be one thing if Dean was forcing him into the top pairing, top PK role, etc. He's got the 7th most ES TOI per game among defensemen on the team this year. He doesn't play the PK. He's our best PP option and that's where a huge chunk of his minutes come from.

Seriously, I can't figure out why he's the one people are zeroing in on as their biggest problem with this roster. We have Sam Steel, Ryan Hartman and Freddy Gaudreau playing regular shifts in the top six, Jake Middleton playing regularly in the top four, our best center is on the third line. There are so many more pressing issues with this team than Calen Addison playing on the bottom pairing.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Some would like our better defender Dumba back in and Addison can sit a few games. Seems like it’s his turn since he had back to back -2 games, no? Maybe he can learn a thing or two from the press box about playing defense.

I'd have to look back at the goals against and see if he was directly responsible for all 4 of them before opining on that.

I know that one of the Florida minuses was 100% on Steel. The other 3 I'm not sure. One was a Carolina SHG though I think.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I can't imagine the reason for being this upset about a 22 year old rookie defenseman having things he needs to improve upon in a year where we're not even Cup contenders. It seems like there should be other things to worry about. It would be one thing if Dean was forcing him into the top pairing, top PK role, etc. He's got the 7th most ES TOI per game among defensemen on the team this year. He doesn't play the PK. He's our best PP option and that's where a huge chunk of his minutes come from.

Seriously, I can't figure out why he's the one people are zeroing in on as their biggest problem with this roster. We have Sam Steel, Ryan Hartman and Freddy Gaudreau playing regular shifts in the top six, Jake Middleton playing regularly in the top four, our best center is on the third line. There are so many more pressing issues with this team than Calen Addison playing on the bottom pairing.

Yeah, I can't really place it either. The illusion of contending maybe? I guess having Kaprizov on roster is a hell of a drug.

 

[AKL]

Yeah, I can't really place it either. The illusion of contending maybe? I guess having Kaprizov on roster is a hell of a drug.

That's probably part of it. I think another part is from when Russo speculated that "if he asks for too much, he could be traded", and people took that mean, "he's asking for too much, look for him to be traded". We'll see what his next contract looks like. I don't think he has much leverage here to price himself out, but wow, once Russo said that, the amount of posts talking about how bad he is and how we need to get rid of him more than doubled. Not many people had many problems with him before that.

 

[Wabit]

I can't imagine the reason for being this upset about a 22 year old rookie defenseman having things he needs to improve upon in a year where we're not even Cup contenders. It seems like there should be other things to worry about. It would be one thing if Dean was forcing him into the top pairing, top PK role, etc. He's got the 7th most ES TOI per game among defensemen on the team this year. He doesn't play the PK. He's our best PP option and that's where a huge chunk of his minutes come from.

Seriously, I can't figure out why he's the one people are zeroing in on as their biggest problem with this roster. We have Sam Steel, Ryan Hartman and Freddy Gaudreau playing regular shifts in the top six, Jake Middleton playing regularly in the top four, our best center is on the third line. There are so many more pressing issues with this team than Calen Addison playing on the bottom pairing.

I'm fine with Addsion as a 6/7D at his current pay. I think he'll be useless in the Playoffs and would use him as trade bait before re-signing him for more than a cheap bridge deal.

I'm not fine with all 4 of Addison, Goli, Merrill, and Middleton in the lineup at the same time. Two of them is the most that should be in the lineup unless it's for an injury.

That's probably part of it. I think another part is from when Russo speculated that "if he asks for too much, he could be traded", and people took that mean, "he's asking for too much, look for him to be traded". We'll see what his next contract looks like. I don't think he has much leverage here to price himself out, but wow, once Russo said that, the amount of posts talking about how bad he is and how we need to get rid of him more than doubled. Not many people had many problems with him before that.

Just want to say I was on this train before Russo ever said anything. I pay very little heed to things Russo says other than lineup info.