Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2022-23

[Dr Jan Itor]

His easy counter point is now you’ve pissed off the franchise player by trading his closest buddy on the team.

The easy counter point to that counter point, is that Kaprizov is 25 and Zuccarello is 35, so he's going to have to play without him eventually.

And it's also worrisome that Zuccarello is going to be able to demand 50-100% more than he deserves in the summer of 2024, due to all of this 'Kaprizov's friend' leverage that he has.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

The easy counter point to that counter point, is that Kaprizov is 25 and Zuccarello is 35, so he's going to have to play without him eventually.

And it's also worrisome that Zuccarello is going to be able to demand 50-100% more than he deserves in the summer of 2024, due to all of this 'Kaprizov's friend' leverage that he has.

The counter point to that counter point to the previous counter point, is that if Zucc leaves when his contract is finished it will be by his own doing and Guerin wouldn’t be to blame. If Guerin actively trades him, it could harm the future Kaprizov negotiations when we are just starting to compete again.

 

[TaLoN]

The counter point to that counter point to the previous counter point, is that if Zucc leaves when his contract is finished it will be by his own doing and Guerin wouldn’t be to blame. If Guerin actively trades him, it could harm the future Kaprizov negotiations when we are just starting to compete again.

The counter point to that counter point to the counter point to the previous counter point is that Kaprizov's future negotiations are already being harmed before that point is ever even reached due to the crap lineup he's being played with throughout his prime years.

 

[Minnewildsota]

The easy counter point to that counter point, is that Kaprizov is 25 and Zuccarello is 35, so he's going to have to play without him eventually.

And it's also worrisome that Zuccarello is going to be able to demand 50-100% more than he deserves in the summer of 2024, due to all of this 'Kaprizov's friend' leverage that he has.

He can demand whatever he wants, doesn’t mean he's going to get it.

The counter point to that counter point to the counter point to the previous counter point is that Kaprizov's future negotiations are already being harmed before that point is ever even reached due to the crap lineup he's being played with throughout his prime years.

I raise you:

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Honestly, if Kaprizov is that big of a baby about it (I don't think he is), then I'm not too worried about harming future negotiations.

If he wants to turn down an 8 year deal at very high dollars because we traded somebody a year before they were free agent, he can feel free. I'm not sure I want us to give him his next contract anyway.

He can demand whatever he wants, doesn’t mean he's going to get it.

If we're operating under the assumption that not playing with Zuccarello will do irreparable harm to the prospect of Kaprizov staying here, then why wouldn't he get it?

 

[Wabit]

The counter point to that counter point to the counter point to the previous counter point is that Kaprizov's future negotiations are already being harmed before that point is ever even reached due to the crap lineup he's being played with throughout his prime years.

At what point does the counter counter get too high, and it's time to just have a drink?

Yes, I wrote this just to say counter twice in a row.

 

[JiricekSaveUs]

His easy counter point is now you’ve pissed off the franchise player by trading his closest buddy on the team.

They could have made it work as well if they traded/not signed Greenway, Middleton, Goligoski and Foligno and replaced them with Dewar, Mermis, Sustr, and Shaw. All major downgrades, but saves something like $7.5M without needing to account for replacement player cost.

Kap(9)-Hartman(1.7)-Zucc(6)
Boldy(7.5)-Gaudreau(1.5?)-Fiala(7.875)
Shaw(.75)-Ek(5.25)-Duhaime(.75)
Dewar(.8)-Steel(.825)-Petan(.763)
Fogarty(.763)
Total: $43.476M

Brodin(6)-Addison(2.5)
Merrill(1.4)-Spurgeon(7.575)
Mermis(.75)-XXXX(1)
Sustr(.75)
Total: $19.975M

MAF(3.5)
Gus(2?)
Total: $5.5M

That is $68.951M cap + $14.744M = $83.695M for a 22 man roster. There is some wiggle room to keep Foligno if you play it right as well.

The defense is awful, but the good news is that is the deepest part of our prospect pool. Don’t tell me one of O’Rourke, Hunt, Peart, Lambos, Faber, etc can’t snag a spot or rotate through to see who sticks.

I’ve been crunching these numbers at the thought of getting Timo Meier as a “Fiala reset.” His QO is really bad though.

Keeping Zuccarello because he’s Kaprizov’s BFF even when it’s not the right move for the team is exactly the type of culture Guerin is preaching he’s eradicated; it’s about the team not the player, right? Either Guerin really believed that Fiala isn’t a player worth building around, which would make him an idiot, or he isn’t living up to his own standards and is putting some players wants and needs over what is best for the team.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Keeping Zuccarello because he’s Kaprizov’s BFF even when it’s not the right move for the team is exactly the type of culture Guerin is preaching he’s eradicated; it’s about the team not the player, right? Either Guerin really believed that Fiala isn’t a player worth building around, which would make him an idiot, or he isn’t living up to his own standards and is putting some players wants and needs over what is best for the team.

I don’t see how dumping Zuccarello makes the team better the next 2 years. We still only have 3 top 6 forwards either way. If you put Boldy with Kap then Fiala still has no one to play with and vice versa.

 

[JiricekSaveUs]

I don’t see how dumping Zuccarello makes the team better the next 2 years. We still only have 3 top 6 forwards either way. If you put Boldy with Kap then Fiala still has no one to play with and vice versa.

You didn’t have to dump Zaccuarello until next year. The other thing being that Fiala can be apart of the next 5-8 years of the team. He and Kaprizov could’ve rewrote the Wild record books together.

 

[AKL]

You didn’t have to dump Zaccuarello until next year. The other thing being that Fiala can be apart of the next 5-8 years of the team. He and Kaprizov could’ve rewrote the Wild record books together.

We've also pretty well established that the whole "get better and be competitive through the buyouts" thing was just lip service.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

You didn’t have to dump Zaccuarello until next year. The other thing being that Fiala can be apart of the next 5-8 years of the team. He and Kaprizov could’ve rewrote the Wild record books together.

Who is your Dumba replacement?

 

[Webster]

They're keeping Zuccarello because of his skillset, experience and leadership. He's still a ppg player, with 1/4 of the season played. It's great value for the Wild because his salary should be 7-8M a yr.

Then you have his character, huge locker room guy, exactly what Guerin wants. Finally his friendship and unique chemistry with Kaprizov. I believe that Zucc has helped Kap a lot when it comes to stuff off the ice, and that's what Kaprizov appreciates so much. It isn't easy to become a pro in this league, even harder when there are language barriers. Zucc speaks Russian.

Zuccarello will not be traded, he will most likely re-sign a couple of years.

It's amazing that some Wild fans are still talking about Fiala, we've heard that he was traded for other reasons than his game. It's a closed chapter, you just keep beating a dead horse.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

They're keeping Zuccarello because of his skillset, experience and leadership. He's still a ppg player, with 1/4 of the season played. It's great value for the Wild because his salary should be 7-8M a yr.

Then you have his character, huge locker room guy, exactly what Guerin wants. Finally his friendship and unique chemistry with Kaprizov. I believe that Zucc has helped Kap a lot when it comes to stuff off the ice, and that's what Kaprizov appreciates so much. It isn't easy to become a pro in this league, even harder when there are language barriers. Zucc speaks Russian.

Zuccarello will not be traded, he will most likely re-sign a couple of years.

It's amazing that some Wild fans are still talking about Fiala, we've heard that he was traded for other reasons than his game. It's a closed chapter, you just keep beating a dead horse.

These two things are very, very related.

 

[57special]

I think he just can’t wrap his head around the fact that a competent GM would’ve traded Dumba then traded Zuccarello the following year. You sign the franchise building blocks first and move other guys out to make it work, not the other way around. Dumba + Zuccarello probably combine for a similar return to late 1st + Faber anyways. Just a completely botched situation, like we all saw coming. Regardless, I don’t know what it is that makes Russo think it would’ve been impossible, but I wish someone would have actually challenge him about it on one of his podcasts.

He not only argues this, ignoring that there were other, easily achievable moves that would have made keeping fiala possible, but also has said that he thought Dean and Guerin just didn't like Fiala.

Which one is it?

Russo firmly in brown nosing mode here. Oh well, we can rest easy when we are sitting around in April with no, or bad, playoff hockey, because Dean will have a no stress locker room.

 

[JiricekSaveUs]

Who is your Dumba replacement?

Do we need one? Goligoski is filling the offensive defenseman who doesn’t score much role pretty well.

 

[JiricekSaveUs]

I mean, let’s not sugarcoat this. Russo is trying to make it seem like retaining Fiala was impossible. Obviously it isn’t. He’s dropped other comments here and there that really reveal the truth. Here are a few examples of things Russo has said that reveal what I’m alluding to:

“The organization feel that it was really Boldy driving that line [Boldy-Gaudreau-Fiala], not Fiala”

“People around the league, and in the organization even, still have questions about it Fiala is a guy that you win with”

… I think it’s obvious that the organization didn’t view him the same way that the fan base did. Maybe they will be right, but it is alarming that they let high end talent at the start of their prime get away.

 

[AKL]

… I think it’s obvious that the organization didn’t view him the same way that the fan base did. Maybe they will be right, but it is alarming that they let high end talent at the start of their prime get away.

With seemingly no coherent plan to replace it. I get that they got futures for him, but they got Faber and Ohgren, who, if we're being honest, aren't exactly offensive dynamos.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Do we need one? Goligoski is filling the offensive defenseman who doesn’t score much role pretty well.

We would be fine for this year because Boldy is under 900k. I fully expect Boldy would want/get $8-9M AAV if he had a full season next to Fiala.

I'm a pretty visual person when it comes to numbers, so bare with me here.

This is what I've got for 23-24:

Kap(9)-Hartman(1.7)-XXXX
Boldy(8)-XXXX-Fiala(7.875)
Greenway(3)-Ek(5.25)-Foligno(3.1)
Dewar(.8)-XXXX-XXXX(Duhaime)
XXXX

Brodin(6)-Spurgeon(7.575)
Middleton(2.45)-XXXX(Addison)
Merrill(1.2)-Goligoski(2)

MAF(3.5)
XXXX(Gustavsson)

RFA Projections:
Duhaime ~ $1M
Addison ~ $2.5M
Gustavsson ~ $2M

By my count, that's a total of $66.95M cap + $14.744M in dead cap = $81.694M. If the cap goes up to $86.5M, that is $4.806M to fill a top line wing, 2nd line center, 4th line center, extra forward, extra dman. Rossi at 2C, Walker at 4C, extras at 750k. That leaves ~ $1.588M for a top line right wing.

Then the year after that you've got to replace or pay Hartman at 1C.

 

[Minnewildsota]

We would be fine for this year because Boldy is under 900k. I fully expect Boldy would want/get $8-9M AAV if he had a full season next to Fiala.

I'm a pretty visual person when it comes to numbers, so bare with me here.

This is what I've got for 23-24:

Kap(9)-Hartman(1.7)-XXXX
Boldy(8)-XXXX-Fiala(7.875)
Greenway(3)-Ek(5.25)-Foligno(3.1)
Dewar(.8)-XXXX-XXXX(Duhaime)
XXXX

Brodin(6)-Spurgeon(7.575)
Middleton(2.45)-XXXX(Addison)
Merrill(1.2)-Goligoski(2)

MAF(3.5)
XXXX(Gustavsson)

RFA Projections:
Duhaime ~ $1M
Addison ~ $2.5M
Gustavsson ~ $2M

By my count, that's a total of $66.95M cap + $14.744M in dead cap = $81.694M. If the cap goes up to $86.5M, that is $4.806M to fill a top line wing, 2nd line center, 4th line center, extra forward, extra dman. Rossi at 2C, Walker at 4C, extras at 750k. That leaves ~ $1.588M for a top line right wing.

Then the year after that you've got to replace or pay Hartman at 1C.

Exactly! It’s completely possible! Doesn’t matter that we’d have to maneuver things very delicately, we could do it!

Could we call anybody up in case of injuries? No, but that doesn’t matter. We would have Fiala.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Exactly! It’s completely possible! Doesn’t matter that we’d have to maneuver things very delicately, we could do it!

Could we call anybody up in case of injuries? No, but that doesn’t matter. We would have Fiala.

Sounds like a GM's job description.

And I don't know what you're so high and mighty about. The only real difference between that lineup and the one we're currently icing is trading in a mid-20's point-per-game player for a mid-30's point-per-game player.

Yes, it's tight and there are things that have to be maneuvered around, but that's no different than our current state.

We would be fine for this year because Boldy is under 900k. I fully expect Boldy would want/get $8-9M AAV if he had a full season next to Fiala.

I'm a pretty visual person when it comes to numbers, so bare with me here.

This is what I've got for 23-24:

Kap(9)-Hartman(1.7)-XXXX
Boldy(8)-XXXX-Fiala(7.875)
Greenway(3)-Ek(5.25)-Foligno(3.1)
Dewar(.8)-XXXX-XXXX(Duhaime)
XXXX

Brodin(6)-Spurgeon(7.575)
Middleton(2.45)-XXXX(Addison)
Merrill(1.2)-Goligoski(2)

MAF(3.5)
XXXX(Gustavsson)

RFA Projections:
Duhaime ~ $1M
Addison ~ $2.5M
Gustavsson ~ $2M

By my count, that's a total of $66.95M cap + $14.744M in dead cap = $81.694M. If the cap goes up to $86.5M, that is $4.806M to fill a top line wing, 2nd line center, 4th line center, extra forward, extra dman. Rossi at 2C, Walker at 4C, extras at 750k. That leaves ~ $1.588M for a top line right wing.

Then the year after that you've got to replace or pay Hartman at 1C.

A Boldy bridge deal adds another ~$2M to work with. Wouldn't be something that I'd be afraid of, personally.

 

[AKL]

A Boldy bridge deal adds another ~$2M to work with. Wouldn't be something that I'd be afraid of, personally.

Especially if it allowed us to keep Fiala for 8 years. Once the dead cap is gone it's smooth sailing, so a 2 year bridge would have been perfect, and then Kaprizov would come up the next summer after that.

And if we lose Kaprizov, we'd still have an entire top line left to work with.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Sounds like a GM's job description.

And I don't know what you're so high and mighty about. The only real difference between that lineup and the one we're currently icing is trading in a mid-20's point-per-game player for a mid-30's point-per-game player.

Yes, it's tight and there are things that have to be maneuvered around, but that's no different than our current state.


A Boldy bridge deal adds another ~$2M to work with. Wouldn't be something that I'd be afraid of, personally.

High and mighty? Ok.

Because that’s with the cap increasing. Everything at the time pointed to the cap being stagnant for years. Given the numbers that DB ran, and using my big brain, tells me that the GM assumed that we wouldn’t have been able to make it work.

Then we completely ignore the fact that “everyone” has been bitching non-stop that we don’t have quality centers. How are we filling those? We’d have ~24 million tied up in 3 wingers alone.

Especially if it allowed us to keep Fiala for 8 years. Once the dead cap is gone it's smooth sailing, so a 2 year bridge would have been perfect, and then Kaprizov would come up the next summer after that.

And if we lose Kaprizov, we'd still have an entire top line left to work with.

We would? Boldy, Fiala, and? I legitimately don’t know who else you’re counting as a top line forward.

 

[AKL]

Then we completely ignore the fact that “everyone” has been bitching non-stop that we don’t have quality centers. How are we filling those? We’d have ~24 million tied up in 3 wingers alone.

We don't have quality centers without Fiala either, and we don't seem to be in a hurry to fill those roles.

 

[Minnewildsota]

We don't have quality centers without Fiala either, and we don't seem to be in a hurry to fill those roles.

I don't disagree, however signing Fiala and Boldy to roughly ~8mil/year assures that we essentially can't. I guess that's my point.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

High and mighty? Ok.

Because that’s with the cap increasing. Everything at the time pointed to the cap being stagnant for years. Given the numbers that DB ran, and using my big brain, tells me that the GM assumed that we wouldn’t have been able to make it work.

Then we completely ignore the fact that “everyone” has been bitching non-stop that we don’t have quality centers. How are we filling those? We’d have ~24 million tied up in 3 wingers alone.

Everything the public knew at the time.

Being able to assume what's going on behind the scenes runs both ways.