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Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2022-23

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BagHead said:
I agree that it was mathematically possible, but there was always a tradeoff with it. See Digitalbooya's post. I think he does an excellent job explaining why the Wild were screwed either way.
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If Goli wasn't re-signed then the cap works fine. Put Rossi and an ELC d-man is $200k less. That leaves ~$3.4m for 2 FWD spots, a backup goalie. Play cap games with callups and a 20 man roster. Or the Suter buyout didn't have to happen, and that would have saved another $2m (Middleton's contract) for next season.

The GM has made bad moves (NMCs, buyouts, Jost/Reaves, Goli, etc) and handcuffed himself with the cap. If Fenton had done this Russo would be all over him pointing out how things could have been done.
 
Guerin simply didn't like Fiala, and we all know that. His comment about "a good 3 months" tells you everything you need to know about that. If Fiala had been signed for 7M and 7 years a year and a half ago, everything would have worked. Not fine, but it would have worked. Especially if, as has been said, Suter hadn't been bought out.

People will ask about next year, but the clear answer to that is that the cap is going to rise by a good chunk because the COVID debt of the players to the owners is going to paid off this year.

It's all simply a matter of Guerin not understanding that you don't throw away offensive talent. You work with it, and you use it.
 
AKL said:


Do you guys think he's just wrong, or do you think he's actively lying to try to keep the mob off Guerin? I don't know which one would be worse. On one hand, lying is pretty bad but he's probably doing it to protect his in with Guerin. On the other hand it's so easy to look this up yourself to see it's false.
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He's technically not wrong with his tweet, but he's also presenting an incomplete equation.

The simplest path was always a two-parter: trade Dumba last summer, and then trade Zuccarello this summer.

And maybe if he wouldn't hide what Fiala's contract asks were in the summer of 2019 and the summer of 2021 (to my knowledge he has never reported that information), then fans could have a better picture of what the possibilities were or weren't, because based on the contract that he signed with LA, it's not impossible.
 
Wabit said:
If Goli wasn't re-signed then the cap works fine. Put Rossi and an ELC d-man is $200k less (hoop 1). That leaves ~$3.4m for 2 FWD spots, a backup goalie (hoop 2). Play cap games with callups (hoop 3, and cruel to the player going up and down) and a 20 man roster (hoop 4). Or the Suter buyout didn't have to happen, and that would have saved another $2m (Middleton's contract) for next season. (I just don't blame Guerin for wanting cost certainty as opposed to a potentially catastrophic retirement)

The GM has made bad moves (NMCs, buyouts, Jost/Reaves, Goli, etc) and handcuffed himself with the cap. If Fenton had done this Russo would be all over him pointing out how things could have been done.
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In my opinion, that's just way too many moving parts, and there was no way Guerin could know for sure he could pull it off until after the fact. Never mind that it potentially forces prospects into the NHL before they're ready. All so you can have a good but not great team today? I just don't see where it's a great idea. I personally would err on the side of getting through the buyouts and then hopefully having a long Cup window with all the young players I've accumulated.

I didn't like the Jost, Reaves or MAF deals, though MAF has mostly proven me wrong. I agree a lot of moves have been bad, but I expect that with anyone. I also expect more moves to be good than bad, and the bigger the move, the more sure you've got to be that it's correct. My main issue with Guerin isn't the value back in his moves, but rather his decision to not pick a lane. He needs to figure out what direction he wants to go, good or bad, because riding the middle lane has only ever lead to middling results.
 
It’s very simple. You don’t sign Goligoski, move Dumba, but if you have to, also trade Greenway for picks. I don’t think that latter choice, needed to be made, but whatev. Also, Russo seems to conveniently be leaving out the fact that the cap Is going up. Bottom line is that Fiala is a better long-term investment than Zuccarello and Dumba.


Disappointed in Russo, and his blatant butt kissing
 
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57special said:
It’s very simple. You don’t sign Goligoski, move Dumba, but if you have to also trade Greenway for pics. I don’t think that latter choice. Needs to be made. Also, Russo seems to conveniently leaving out the fact that the cap Is going up bottom line is that Fiala is a better long-term investment that Zuccarello and Dumba.
He could’ve been signed

Disappointed in Russo, and his blatant butt kissing
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Two years ago the cap was flat and we didn't know when it wouldn't be flat anymore. Like I said, Fiala could have been signed, but it required a lot of things to fall just right, before anyone knew the would.
 
57special said:
It’s very simple. You don’t sign Goligoski, move Dumba, but if you have to also trade Greenway for pics. I don’t think that latter choice. Needs to be made. Also, Russo seems to conveniently leaving out the fact that the cap Is going up bottom line is that Fiala is a better long-term investment that Zuccarello and Dumba.
He could’ve been signed

Disappointed in Russo, and his blatant butt kissing
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They also didn’t know the cap was going up at the time of trade.
Dr Jan Itor said:
He's technically not wrong with his tweet, but he's also presenting an incomplete equation.

The simplest path was always a two-parter: trade Dumba last summer, and then trade Zuccarello this summer.

And maybe if he wouldn't hide what Fiala's contract asks were in the summer of 2019 and the summer of 2021 (to my knowledge he has never reported that information), then fans could have a better picture of what the possibilities were or weren't, because based on the contract that he signed with LA, it's not impossible.
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Can you show your 22 man roster that fits under the cap with just these two trades? It’s almost impossible based on the math I’ve shown.
 
BagHead said:
In my opinion, that's just way too many moving parts, and there was no way Guerin could know for sure he could pull it off until after the fact. Never mind that it potentially forces prospects into the NHL before they're ready. All so you can have a good but not great team today? I just don't see where it's a great idea. I personally would err on the side of getting through the buyouts and then hopefully having a long Cup window with all the young players I've accumulated.

I didn't like the Jost, Reaves or MAF deals, though MAF has mostly proven me wrong. I agree a lot of moves have been bad, but I expect that with anyone. I also expect more moves to be good than bad, and the bigger the move, the more sure you've got to be that it's correct. My main issue with Guerin isn't the value back in his moves, but rather his decision to not pick a lane. He needs to figure out what direction he wants to go, good or bad, because riding the middle lane has only ever lead to middling results.
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The retirement would have been cheaper than what the were and there would have been no extra dead cap for the extra 4 years. The moving parts are no buyouts or no Goli signing. The GM just wanted guys he didn't like gone, no matter the cost.

GMBG has picked a lane. Build a future team though the draft at the expense of the now. The now just gets dollar store generic band aides and told to drink water and put on clean socks.
 
Digitalbooya said:
They also didn’t know the cap was going up at the time of trade.

Can you show your 22 man roster that fits under the cap with just these two trades? It’s almost impossible based on the math I’ve shown.
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This team has: $9,018,079 in cap space. Add Fiala (LA contract) and there is $1,143,079 in cap space for a pressbox player. Oh look and Dumba is still on the team.

Kap/Hartman/Zucc
GREEF
Shaw/Dewar/Duhaime
Boldy/Freddy G/Fiala

Brodin/Dumba
Spurgeon/Middleton
Addison/Merrill

MAF/GUS

Trade Dumba for a bucket of pucks and have all of Goli, Jost, Kulikov, and Rossi on the roster with $29,746 left in cap space.

Next year: Boldy ($6.5m) + Addison ($2.5m) signed a for combined $9m. Zucc traded for a bucket of pucks. $5,443,079 in cap space (with $83.5m cap).

Kap/Hartman/Rossi
GREEF
Fiala/Dewar/Boldy
???/???/???

Brodin/Spurgeon
Middleton/Addison
Goli/Merrill

MAF
???

For simplicity sake re-sign Shaw and Duhaime to $1m (fair for 4th liners) contracts. Beckman, Petan, ROR, and Wallstedt up from the AHL. 22 man roster $5,579 left in cap space.
 
Wabit said:
The retirement would have been cheaper than what the were and there would have been no extra dead cap for the extra 4 years. The moving parts are no buyouts or no Goli signing. The GM just wanted guys he didn't like gone, no matter the cost.

GMBG has picked a lane. Build a future team though the draft at the expense of the now. The now just gets dollar store generic band aides and told to drink water and put on clean socks.
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You're probably right, but if that's the lane he's picked, he shouldn't have traded a 2nd (was potentially a 1st!) for MAF. I love Fleury, but that one still rankles, probably because it's counter to what the rest of the plan looks like. Could have just stuck with Talbot and let his contract expire.

But I guess I get it. He probably felt that was this team's last great chance before 25-26, and I just disagreed with those odds. Reaves, however, doesn't make much sense unless he still thinks they can contend this season. What other purpose could there be for adding him? Maybe just trying to push guys who aren't ready yet out of the roster? I'm just wondering out loud to the aether what his motivations are, I don't expect an answer.

Wabit said:
This team has: $9,018,079 in cap space. Add Fiala (LA contract) and there is $1,143,079 in cap space for a pressbox player. Oh look and Dumba is still on the team.

Kap/Hartman/Zucc
GREEF
Shaw/Dewar/Duhaime
Boldy/Freddy G/Fiala

Brodin/Dumba
Spurgeon/Middleton
Addison/Merrill

MAF/GUS

Trade Dumba for a bucket of pucks and have all of Goli, Jost, Kulikov, and Rossi on the roster with $29,746 left in cap space.

Next year: Boldy ($6.5m) + Addison ($2.5m) signed a for combined $9m. Zucc traded for a bucket of pucks. $5,443,079 in cap space (with $83.5m cap).

Kap/Hartman/Rossi
GREEF
Fiala/Dewar/Boldy
???/???/???

Brodin/Spurgeon
Middleton/Addison
Goli/Merrill

MAF
???

For simplicity sake re-sign Shaw and Duhaime to $1m (fair for 4th liners) contracts. Beckman, Petan, ROR, and Wallstedt up from the AHL. 22 man roster $5,579 left in cap space.
Click to expand...
:oops: in response to the bolded part.
 
BagHead said:
But I guess I get it. He probably felt that was this team's last great chance before 25-26, and I just disagreed with those odds. Reaves, however, doesn't make much sense unless he still thinks they can contend this season. What other purpose could there be for adding him? Maybe just trying to push guys who aren't ready yet out of the roster? I'm just wondering out loud to the aether what his motivations are, I don't expect an answer.
Click to expand...

Does anyone ever question what the guy with the broom is doing? As long as he looks busy nobody questions it.
 
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If worse comes to worst, you move your 35 yo PPG winger for your 26 yo PPG winger, but it never had to come down to that. Dumba gone, Goligoski not signed, and you're good. If you have to move a big lump like Greenway, then you do that, though I don't think he had to. Not making the Sturm trade, and just letting his contract lapse, helps. Not having any intel about the cap possibly going up is just lack of due diligence by the GM.

Pretending that Guerin never had any choice, and that he had to move fiala because of the cap situation because he had no other options is flat out silly. I've lost respect for Russo for even pretending that's anywhere near the truth, and that Guerin was some poor, helpless victim of a cap situation that he had no power to manipulate.
 
Guerin could have looked like a genius if he had signed Fiala to a nice deal after 2021, instead we got that one year contract and his future trade all but assured.
 
north21 said:
Guerin could have looked like a genius if he had signed Fiala to a nice deal after 2021, instead we got that one year contract and his future trade all but assured.
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Amen.

And now, he is going to look foolish, because the team is not very good, and he continues to make moves for guys who "play the game the right way", and we won't win anything.

I keep seeing this more and more in my own mind....you don't give up guys with offensive talent in a league where coaches have tremendous defensive minds, and where it's much easier to play defense than offense.
 
Is there any reason to think that Fiala even wanted to stay here or does that not matter?
 
Hey guys, any idea if Addison will play today or if he'll sit for Brodin? I know that he was supposed to be a scratch on Wednesday.

Thanks! Looking forward to the game today as the Wild are my favourite team in the West :)
 
Kaprizov is on pace for 49 goals, 49 assists
 
AKL said:


Do you guys think he's just wrong, or do you think he's actively lying to try to keep the mob off Guerin? I don't know which one would be worse. On one hand, lying is pretty bad but he's probably doing it to protect his in with Guerin. On the other hand it's so easy to look this up yourself to see it's false.
Click to expand...

I think he just can’t wrap his head around the fact that a competent GM would’ve traded Dumba then traded Zuccarello the following year. You sign the franchise building blocks first and move other guys out to make it work, not the other way around. Dumba + Zuccarello probably combine for a similar return to late 1st + Faber anyways. Just a completely botched situation, like we all saw coming. Regardless, I don’t know what it is that makes Russo think it would’ve been impossible, but I wish someone would have actually challenge him about it on one of his podcasts.
 
KaprizovSaveUs said:
I think he just can’t wrap his head around the fact that a competent GM would’ve traded Dumba then traded Zuccarello the following year. You sign the franchise building blocks first and move other guys out to make it work, not the other way around. Dumba + Zuccarello probably combine for a similar return to late 1st + Faber anyways. Just a completely botched situation, like we all saw coming. Regardless, I don’t know what it is that makes Russo think it would’ve been impossible, but I wish someone would have actually challenge him about it on one of his podcasts.
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His easy counter point is now you’ve pissed off the franchise player by trading his closest buddy on the team.

They could have made it work as well if they traded/not signed Greenway, Middleton, Goligoski and Foligno and replaced them with Dewar, Mermis, Sustr, and Shaw. All major downgrades, but saves something like $7.5M without needing to account for replacement player cost.

Kap(9)-Hartman(1.7)-Zucc(6)
Boldy(7.5)-Gaudreau(1.5?)-Fiala(7.875)
Shaw(.75)-Ek(5.25)-Duhaime(.75)
Dewar(.8)-Steel(.825)-Petan(.763)
Fogarty(.763)
Total: $43.476M

Brodin(6)-Addison(2.5)
Merrill(1.4)-Spurgeon(7.575)
Mermis(.75)-XXXX(1)
Sustr(.75)
Total: $19.975M

MAF(3.5)
Gus(2?)
Total: $5.5M

That is $68.951M cap + $14.744M = $83.695M for a 22 man roster. There is some wiggle room to keep Foligno if you play it right as well.

The defense is awful, but the good news is that is the deepest part of our prospect pool. Don’t tell me one of O’Rourke, Hunt, Peart, Lambos, Faber, etc can’t snag a spot or rotate through to see who sticks.

I’ve been crunching these numbers at the thought of getting Timo Meier as a “Fiala reset.” His QO is really bad though.
 
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