Minnesota really needs to pick a lane and stick with it. This whole sneak into the playoffs and see what happens and then get blown out in five games is tiresome. Either they need to go all in and make some hard trades like trading Rossi and O'Rourke and Yurov to get help now or they need to start selling veterans and trying again next year.
Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2022-23
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Because of the cap restrictions over the next 2 2/3rd years, and trading Fiala, going all in is more or less impossible. Certainly ill advised.
My worry is that Evason and Guerin don't seem to value offensive players. They love to talk about being "hard on pucks", playing the "right way"(code for grinding and defensive play), and "north south", while seeming to forget that a team of JEE's, Gaudreau's, and Foligno's, while good, will never win a Cup. They NEVER criticize JEE or Foligno, and seem to take for granted Zucc and Kap's offensive contributions.
I am all for a strong defense, and having a grinding element to a team, but let's be clear, scoring talent and production is one of the most important elements, if not THE most important element, to have on a successful team. It's not the f***ing 3rd liners who score 24 pts/season.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Fully healthy, I'd say OK over bad, but OK at best. Fringe playoff team, 50/50 in or out.
And we're not going to get fully healthy and stay that way.
Fully healthy were are a top 10 team, somewhere in the 8-10 range. That is assuming that the goaltending continues to be as good as it has been in recent games.
I think we tend to be overly pessimistic about this team, or least overly pessimistic about his team in the regular season. Last year we were 5th, the year before 9th.
I totally get being pessimistic about the post season.
I think we tend to be overly pessimistic about this team, or least overly pessimistic about his team in the regular season. Last year we were 5th, the year before 9th.
I totally get being pessimistic about the post season.
Jesus comma Brodin
Effing Norris-Byng Brodin
I just don’t see it. We’re one of the least skilled forward groups in the league, and for the millionth year in a row, we are awful down the middle.
We can probably hang assuming the tenders maintain this level of play but likely more so treading water than moving up. Probably more middle of the road in the 16th-20th range, imo.
Hopefully when we do have a complete lineup we can move up, but the lack of scoring, especially at 5v5 is going to be problematic. The overachievements of last season were always going to regress and getting no complementary scoring from anywhere else is a massive issue
The buyouts are killing this team. Suter and Parise aren't worth their $7.5m AAV, but they are worth more than the ~$8.4m (buyout +Jost/Goli) each sitting in the pressbox. Heck Parise's 5g/8p would be 5th on the team.
The coach wants them to play the "right" way. Yet the GM has gotten rid of Kunin (for nothing), Parise (for less than nothing) and Sturm (for less than nothing) and all of these guys play the "right" way.
I don't see it either. The glaring hole at 1C puts MN is the middle of the pack range.
Get a 1C (even Horvat) and the lineup is close to top-5 if fully healthy.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
I know that you can only play the schedule in front of you, but I'd have us at zero impressive wins so far. Winning in Ottawa was probably the closest at the time, but they've since sunk to the bottom of the division.
Losing in OT to the Bruins might be the best, but even that was with no Marchand and no McAvoy.
Losing in OT to the Bruins might be the best, but even that was with no Marchand and no McAvoy.
The scary thing is that Minnesota's prospect depth is defensive heavy and there is little offensive talent coming through that isn't locked up in the KHL.
Liam Ohgren's ceiling looks like a JEE clone except on wing. Yurov and Khus are stuck in the KHL. Then you have the massive glut of defensive guys: Lambos, O'Rourke, Peart, Faber, Hunt, Johansson...
You can see it in the AHL that this team doesn't have a ton of talent anywhere.
At this point, I'd rather have Fenton's scouting than Guerin's team building, because at least Fenton could spot talent.
Liam Ohgren's ceiling looks like a JEE clone except on wing. Yurov and Khus are stuck in the KHL. Then you have the massive glut of defensive guys: Lambos, O'Rourke, Peart, Faber, Hunt, Johansson...
You can see it in the AHL that this team doesn't have a ton of talent anywhere.
At this point, I'd rather have Fenton's scouting than Guerin's team building, because at least Fenton could spot talent.
The 1st LA game was a decent (not good) team game, but the goalies stunk it up, other than that I agree.
The ANA and MTL games were the closest to complete games they've had this year (imo).
I haven't paid close attention, but has Guerin mentioned anything at all about this funk they are in? I happened to recall something earlier in the season, but...
No argument on most of your points, but Parise is a guy that i was fine with getting bought out. The Suter decision chaps my ass.
It will get worse, before it gets better.
One cannot go back and revisit anything, but.....
Many of us at the time were fine with Parise's buyout, but not Suter's. If Suter is no bought out, Fiala could have easily stayed. Also, Dumba rather than Soucy could have been left unprotected. Not that Soucy is much better than Dumba is playing this year, but it's 3M more in cap space.
Generally, it needs to be agreed that offensive talent is always at a premium in a league with strong defensive systems. Fast players mean less open space, which means that again, it's easier to play defense than offense.
And, therefore, players with offensive talent need to be kept, even if they have attitude problems.
Many of us at the time were fine with Parise's buyout, but not Suter's. If Suter is no bought out, Fiala could have easily stayed. Also, Dumba rather than Soucy could have been left unprotected. Not that Soucy is much better than Dumba is playing this year, but it's 3M more in cap space.
Generally, it needs to be agreed that offensive talent is always at a premium in a league with strong defensive systems. Fast players mean less open space, which means that again, it's easier to play defense than offense.
And, therefore, players with offensive talent need to be kept, even if they have attitude problems.
BagHead
Registered User
You know, with hindsight I think it's the other way around for me. I'd rather have Parise. There's enough smoke around it that I think there could be fire in regards to Suter being not a great locker room presence. Not that it makes him the worse player, but I also did not expect Suter's offense to dry up sooner than Parise's did. One of life's little surprises.
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The problem is that none of these decisions were made because of money. Parise and Suter weren't bought out to save money, they were bought out because of the atmosphere they created in the locker room. Fiala was traded because he clashed with Evason. Dumba was kept over Soucy because of his supposed leadership and locker room presence. All of those moves were made with having a harmonious locker room in mind, not money.
But your point is spot on. In this league, and especially with this team, with how difficult it's always been to obtain high end offensive talent, you don't just trade it away because one guy is maybe a little too emotional at times.
It's not like Middleton (Suter's direct lineup replacement) is lighting the world on fire for offense either. Suter is still playing 22 mins a night too.
I could rationalize the Parise buyout, but not the Suter buyout. I didn't really like either of them buyouts because it made the team worse then and in the future with 8 years of dead cap.
Parise was also a player that showed up in the Playoffs.
I agree completely. The buyouts were related to the favoritism which were extended to Parise and Suter. Fiala was traded because he didn't like the GM being a dictator. Parise is more or less finished. On that, we all agree. However, Suter is still a serviceable D, and would be equal to a few of the guys receiving playing time this year. So, compared to Goligoski, he would be a 1M savings, or more. Soucy instead of Dumba would be 3M (if Seattle had chosen someone else instead of Dumba, great!).
You just don't give away offensive talent like Fiala, even if it's inconsistent. Even if it has a bad attitude sometimes.
And they are doing what they can via the draft. What sucks is you have to wait years sometimes.
BagHead
Registered User
Like I said, "Not like it makes him the worse player". Suter is, IMO, still the better overall player between he and Parise, just not offensively (which was a surprise to me, and why I mentioned it), and in no way am I comparing Middleton to Suter. I wouldn't even call Middleton his replacement, even if he does play in the same spot. They're not similar players.
Honestly, though, I didn't mind about the buyouts that day, and I still don't today. There was good rationale for making that move and so, even though hindsight is making the decision look like it wasn't optimal, I'm still fine with it. You can't have hindsight when you make decisions, so you need to weigh the options and then act, and Guerin did. Everyone makes sub-optimal decisions. The key to success is in getting more of them right than wrong.
Besides, does anyone really believe this team is a contender with Parise and Suter on it, and almost all the money tied up in wingers and defensemen? They needed to make a change, and they have more still to make.
JiricekSaveUs
Danila Yurov Fan Club Executive Assistant
- May 2, 2018
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This seems overly pessemistic to me. You can’t just fire hard offensive talent because they play in the KHL. They will get over here and we will be better because of it. The Ohgren/Ek comparison seems lazy to me and let’s not forgot about young guys on the roster. Despite popular belief after 15 NHL games with little to no power play time, Rossi still has a path to becoming an excellent hockey player for us.
JiricekSaveUs
Danila Yurov Fan Club Executive Assistant
- May 2, 2018
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I know everyone wants to throw Rossi under the bus, and let’s be blunt: he hasn’t generated much, but let’s also look at the situation he’s been put into. He’s played almost exclusively at 5v5 with bottom 6 players on a team that’s not producing 5v5 at all. The player with the most 5v5 points in this team is Kaprizov… with 6. Watching Rossi, it’s so obvious his confidence is shot. They played mind games with him from the beginning of the season and it’s showing more than ever. I don’t think these days he’s going to be the guy that centers our top line for the next decade, but I do think there’s a still hope for him to be a real good 2-way, puck distributing guy for this team to build around.
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I think they have made a choice…..they had career years last year by several players and still didn’t get past the first round. Doubtful that every player could do it again. So let some scoring go, Keep a fan favorite in goal that people will come to watch regardless of how his season goes, Let your other goalie go and replace him with a younger unproven goalie. Add it all up and the team will regress. All of the changes made are 3rd and 4th line guys because that’s all he can change. Besides the cap, there are too many NMC’s. to make any real changes. Basically the only thing to trade is the prospects that they need to keep.
I kind of wonder if they thought last years team would net us some higher picks? Then everyone went nuts…….
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