Bingo! Unless Fiala was magically able to take over as a defenseman or goaltender, still having him here wouldn't have made a damn difference. We'd still be in the hole. Offense is the least of our problems. Last I checked, he's still taking dumb penalties and isn't exactly lighting the world on fire with his new team. The kid is gone. Time to get over it, move on, and focus on the guys we DO HAVE who can actually get us out of this mess.
Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2022-23
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- Dec 10, 2012
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Maybe Fiala wouldn't have us sitting at 5-0 and he wouldn't have stopped all 27 goals, but I know for a fact the Boldy line would be spending significantly more time not in our own D zone if he were here still. That's gotta count for at least a few GF/GA.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
It remains at least a little bit relevant while we watch Dumba suck it up here.
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Yeah it's not a scientific method by any means, but that line spending more time in the offensive zone probably results in more goals for the Wild, which may or may not change momentum in a game, which may result in less goals against.
Regardless, it could never be a bad thing to have more offense.
Spurgeon
Registered User
The problem is that there’s still a huge hole left by Fiala and the line combinations that Evason is trying out make that very apparent. 5 games of great production don’t make me believe whatsoever that the offense is going to be anywhere near this level for the entire season. It also limits who we can play where. I would’ve much rather had two offensive lines and two shutdown lines rather than whatever the hell we’re doing now.
The goal scoring is a mirage , when a team hangs a 5 spot on you in the first 17 minutes of the game it’s not surprising they lay back and you get the next 2-3. Most of the scoring has been power play , garbage time and Cal Peterson lol. I’m almost infinitely apathetic about everything from the color underwear I put on in the morning to MN sports and everything in between so take my view on things with a grain of salt.
- Dec 10, 2012
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Jesus comma Brodin
Effing Norris-Byng Brodin
We are 29th in the league in 5v5 scoring and 31st in 5v5 differential having scored 8 goals and given up 27. Even if our PP finishes top 10, our scoring rate is going to decline heavily.
GF% - 31st
xGF% - 28th
GF/60 - 24th
GA/60 - 32nd
Scoring has not been an issue yet, because if we sustained our current PP%, it would be the best PP ever recorded, regress it toward the mean and we are dropping even further.
To go on, Kevin Fiala was 10th in the NHL in 5v5 scoring last season. If you don't see the writing on the wall that he is one of the reasons we're horrendous 5v5, then you're not even trying.
GF% - 31st
xGF% - 28th
GF/60 - 24th
GA/60 - 32nd
Scoring has not been an issue yet, because if we sustained our current PP%, it would be the best PP ever recorded, regress it toward the mean and we are dropping even further.
To go on, Kevin Fiala was 10th in the NHL in 5v5 scoring last season. If you don't see the writing on the wall that he is one of the reasons we're horrendous 5v5, then you're not even trying.
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Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Exactly. It's not like the Boldy line is the main culprit defensively, either. There were signs of it in previous years, but this year, the inability to maintain basic D zone coverage by the team has been mystifying. I mean, i don't expect Kaprizov to be a defensive dynamo, but when guys like Brodin fail to cover their man in front of the net because they are puck watching I just have to shake my head.
I don't know if it's a lack of talent on the back end, mental mistakes, a confusing coverage scheme, or what. I have said that having Dmen come here and rack up career highs in points will come at a cost, though. There is a downside to having Dmen play the puck, and looking to jump the zone.
YES!
Really bad. Honestly, the lack of physicality is almost as bad as the goaltending and defensive structure.
Not sure what we expected when we added Rossi, Steel & Addison to last year’s team. When you factor in Brodin, Zuccarello, Spurgeon, Jost, Gaudreau that’s 8 skaters with zero physicality whatsoever. It’d be one thing if most of those guys had huge motors and quickness but they don’t. Vegas and St. Louis will further expose this when we play them IMO
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Maybe, but we already saw last year that the good he provided outweighed the bad. Handily.
Sure, but my argument is that the Fiala line (now Boldy line) hasn’t been an issue for either year. The issue this year is our top line is giving up an average of 2 goals against per night. That’s a 164 goals against at even strength for an entire year. Last season, Kaprizov was on the ice for a total of 66 goals against at even strength.
Here is the difference in fancy stats:
Kaprizov
21-22: 3.11 GA/60
22-23: 7.17 GA/60
Zuccarello:
21-22: 3.01 GA/60
22-23: 7.32 GA/60
Whether we have Fiala or not, those two have to be better. Same with Brodin and Dumba (especially).
Btw, both Goligoski and Addison are the worst on the team for GA/60. Addison is paying off on the PP, but he’s a liability out there at even strength.
I still think we need another goaltende. Fleury has been better. Neither goalie inspires a lot of confidence. Maybe Reimer could be had for cheap?
- Dec 10, 2012
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Yeah I wouldn't disagree with most of that. Don't think we should bother trying to find another goalie, but that's a different conversation.
As the original conversation pertained to Fiala, it still remains that having Fiala now would be better than it is not having him now. Even if that line isn't the problem. Fiala is a net positive player, which means he would have a positive impact here this year.
I refuse to believe that a defense that has Brodin and Spurgeon on it can be this awful long term. I even like Middleton, and Merrill defensively is decent for a 3rd pairing guy?
So, either the start of this season is an anomaly, or the G's really suck/coaches have some work to do/forwards D support is bad.
So, either the start of this season is an anomaly, or the G's really suck/coaches have some work to do/forwards D support is bad.
- Dec 10, 2012
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Some more fun stats about Fiala:
GvA/60: 2.23, second highest on the team last year (min. 41 GP), smack dab between Kaprizov (2.79) and Zuccarello (1.98). Boldy (1.82) was fourth on the team. T-59th in the league with Jason Robertson. Slightly lower than Barkov, Aho and McDavid. Slightly higher than JT Miller and Mika Zibanejad.
Penalties taken/60: 0.87, sixth highest out of 12 forwards (min. 41 GP)
Penalties drawn/60: 1.37, fourth highest out of 12 forwards (min. 41 GP)
Net penalties/60: 0.50, third highest out of 12 forwards (min. 41 GP)
So we can already see the turnover and penalties arguments are overblown crutches before we even consider his 67 even strength points (10th in the entire league).
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Fiala 3.19
Kaprizov 3.11
Make that 5v5 and Kaprizov & Zuccarello are both worse.
Make that xGA/60 at ES and Fiala is within four 100ths of Zuccarello.
Note that all 3 have 3 of the 4 worst on-ice save %'s too.
And still, his offensive contributions outweigh all of this. Nobody is calling him a Selke candidate.
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Yes he was the worst if you disregard Sturm. He was at 3.18 EV GA/60, that's true.
Kaprizov and Zuccarello were right behind him at 3.10 and 3.00 respectively.
He was also third in EV GF/60 at 4.48, behind Boldy (4.51) and Hartman (4.55). He was ahead of Kaprizov (4.47) and Zuccarello (4.28).
We could go back and forth with stats all day, it'll never change the fact that Fiala is a net positive for the team he plays for and it's not particularly close or debatable.
Speaking of “overblown crutches,” I refuse to believe this ridiculous notion that Fiala providing more offense to the second line somehow turns our 27 goals against into an amount that would make our record over .500.
Somehow adding a bad defensive player to a line that has given up minimal goals will result in even fewer goals against because offense.
I pointed out the problem and it doesn’t involve Fiala at all. Y’all are target fixating on Fiala to fit your agenda and vent about him being gone. I’m saying it’s more realistic to try and play better defense and win games 3-2 or 4-3, and y’all are basically countering with well we’re losing games 5-4, but with Fiala we could be winning games 8-7 cause net positive!
Somehow adding a bad defensive player to a line that has given up minimal goals will result in even fewer goals against because offense.
The argument being presented is that Fiala somehow takes our 27 goals against and turns that into a number we would be winning more games with. So your counter argument is to compare him to our worst defensive forwards? They got scored on a LOT too and they ARE the PROBLEM this year because of their garbage defense.
I pointed out the problem and it doesn’t involve Fiala at all. Y’all are target fixating on Fiala to fit your agenda and vent about him being gone. I’m saying it’s more realistic to try and play better defense and win games 3-2 or 4-3, and y’all are basically countering with well we’re losing games 5-4, but with Fiala we could be winning games 8-7 cause net positive!
- Dec 10, 2012
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Stop making strawmans. Let me quote some of my earlier posts here.
The argument being presented is that having Fiala would help more than it hurts, and it might result in less goals against and a better record (even if only 1-2 points better, which over an 82 game season adds up).
I never said he'd be the answer to all our problems, and in fact I explicitly stated he wouldn't have prevented all 27 goals or turned us to a 5-0 team. The argument presented is that he helps more than he hurts, which logically speaking, means the team would be better off with him now than without him now.
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I'm not talking about treating the problem now, which is what you seem to want to discuss. And that's fine, if you want to talk about acquiring yet another mediocre goaltender to put duct tape over the leak, that's your prerogative and I'm not going to stop you.
But this discussion is about Fiala helping more than he hurts. If we had Fiala right now, we would be better off than we are currently. And that the problems Fiala had that most people want to cherry pick (turnovers and penalties) are entirely overblown. Relative to both his former teammates here, as well as the league, they are not as big of problems as some try to make them out to be.
I don't care about what you want to do with goaltending or defense, that's completely irrelevant.
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