Confirmed Buy-Out [MIN] Zach Parise and Ryan Suter

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Rabid Ranger

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Guerin sounds like a bit of an idiot. I mean chasing more assets just to keep Dumba again and try to resign him when the big penalties hit is bad enough.

How many players keep going on these long term contracts until the end? Has there been any yet? Parise is breaking down and that is obvious. Eventually these old dogs find an injury or multiple that just doesn’t let them train the way they need to play the game to an acceptable level personally and they give it up.

What I find odd is Guerin didn't appear to approach both players with his plan ahead of time. Even if there is bad blood tell them and if they aren't willing to cooperate go with the nuclear option. Instead, it seems like this was an ego driven decision.
 

57special

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The player has to have an injury to go in LTIR. Parise doesn't play anymore, so how can he get injured to go on LTIR? He wants to play so he isn't going to willingly go on LTIR just to help out the Wild.

Buying out Suter this season gives Guerin enough money to sign a "stop gap" replacement for him until a LHD prospect is ready to join the team on an ELC in years 3 and 4.

I don't think these buyouts were made to just protect Dumba.
Well, one big side benefit to buying out Suter was that it allowed MN to protect Dumba in the ED. His status has quite quickly changed from "available" in trade, to "unavailable".

There is no doubt that Suter can still play at a reasonably high level right now. I am also not sure that he couldn't still play well enough to still be a 3-5D 4 years from now, if this buyout hadn't happened. He is still very smart (with a strong defensive AND offensive IQ), strong, and an excellent passer. Those attributes tend to age well.

Suter was last holdover from the old guard of Boudreau, Koivu, Parise, Dubnyk, and Staal. It was pretty clear that Guerin wanted them all gone, whether they deserved it or not.
 

playasRus

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Surprised they couldn't convince a team like Detroit or Buffalo to take one of the contracts, especially Suter for cash/6 mil dead contract and some futures like 2021 1st, 2024 + 2025 2nds and 2026 3rd.

Halves their cap hit And rebuilding team does it to accelerate their plan with 3 top 90 picks while they have cap space to spare.

He'll, Ottawa would have benefited from that trade.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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Surprised they couldn't convince a team like Detroit or Buffalo to take one of the contracts, especially Suter for cash/6 mil dead contract and some futures like 2021 1st, 2024 + 2025 2nds and 2026 3rd.

Halves their cap hit And rebuilding team does it to accelerate their plan with 3 top 90 picks while they have cap space to spare.

He'll, Ottawa would have benefited from that trade.

If Suter would've been willing (we'll never know), we could've easily traded him. They just didn't want to.
 

Sota Popinski

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Guerin sounds like a bit of an idiot. I mean chasing more assets just to keep Dumba again and try to resign him when the big penalties hit is bad enough.
Where did Guerin even mention Dumba yesterday? You're speculating that these buyouts were done in order to keep Dumba, but they could have gone 4+4 and kept Dumba anyway. They could have bought out just Parise and kept Dumba. Maybe Dumba gets traded after the expansion draft, or after this season.

If you read Guerin's quotes yesterday, he said this was about getting younger and taking advantage of the cap space this year. It's anybody's guess what they do with the cap space, but if they're using it to "chase assets", that's technically what every GM should be doing.
 

HotDish

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Surprised they couldn't convince a team like Detroit or Buffalo to take one of the contracts, especially Suter for cash/6 mil dead contract and some futures like 2021 1st, 2024 + 2025 2nds and 2026 3rd.

Halves their cap hit And rebuilding team does it to accelerate their plan with 3 top 90 picks while they have cap space to spare.

He'll, Ottawa would have benefited from that trade.
I think the Wild were more worried about trading and later the player retiring leaving the Wild with cap recapture. I think this way the Wild know about the dead cap for the next 4 years without getting hit with an unexpected penalty in 2-3 years when someone like Suter retires. Easier to cross off the cap space now than frantically scramble to making space in an offseason down the line.

Some Wild fans have been breaking down the math of cap recapture, buyout, and playing out their contracts. They are all pretty similar when it comes to cap hits. However, the FO must feel better giving a roster spot to ELCs instead of a 7.5 mil player in the press box or an 7.5 older and slower Dman at the tailend of his career.

while years 3 & 4 will hurt, it isn't like we weren't going to face this cap issue even without buying them out or them retiring. What difference does it make if they are bench players or off the team? 2 ELCs playing? I'm fine giving some young guns an opportunity than paying for guys to sit in the press box.
 

Hatter of the Beach

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Wonder if Yzerman tries to weaponize cap space by having a deal in place to sign Suter then retain 50% to send to a contender for an asset (I.e. wings sign him to a 2 year 5 mil deal then ships him to a contender so they can have him at 2.5)
 

State of Hockey

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The Wild were going to have that 4 year handicap whether they were bought out or not.
Incorrect. Not if one or both of them would have been an important contributor to the team, or if a trade would have been worked out. Now with Parise that on-roster contribution ship was sailing, in major part thanks to the management and coaching staff ensuring a broken relationship by treating him the way they did. But we could have expected an important contribution to the blueline out of Suter for at least a couple more years. Now the Wild are guaranteed to have that full 4 year handicap with nothing on the roster to show for it. Like I saw another poster say, they took the cap recapture gun pointed at them and pulled the trigger themselves. Any way you try to look at this situation, this was one of the worst GM decisions we've ever seen in the NHL. There is no way around that fact. The team has no realistic shot at a Cup for at least 4 years, and a good year will just be making the playoffs. It only makes sense if you completely blow it up and rebuild, but that's obviously not what the team is planning to do. And as a bonus FAs will be wary of coming here if you get treated like they did. It won't help Kaprizov's chances of staying here long-term either. Bill Guerin has no clue on how to run a franchise, and this move was the culmination of that.
 

MuckOG

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Incorrect. Not if one or both of them would have been an important contributor to the team, or if a trade would have been worked out. Now with Parise that on-roster contribution ship was sailing, in major part thanks to the management and coaching staff ensuring a broken relationship by treating him the way they did. But we could have expected an important contribution to the blueline out of Suter for at least a couple more years. Now the Wild are guaranteed to have that full 4 year handicap with nothing on the roster to show for it. Like I saw another poster say, they took the cap recapture gun pointed at them and pulled the trigger themselves. Any way you try to look at this situation, this was one of the worst GM decisions we've ever seen in the NHL. There is no way around that fact. The team has no realistic shot at a Cup for at least 4 years, and a good year will just be making the playoffs. And as a bonus FAs will be wary of coming here if you get treated like they did. It won't help Kaprizov's chances of staying here long-term either. Bill Guerin has no clue on how to run a franchise, and this move was the culmination of that.

Trades not really an option when you have the threat of recapture always hanging over you. Guerin would have to keep that dead cap space in the event the recapture kicked in, correct?

Parise was no longer a contributor on this team as evidenced by him being a healthy scratch towards the end of the regular season and post season, so there is no question that a buyout makes sense for him.

Suter was a contributor last season, and probably would be for another season or two. But by seasons 3 and 4, he most likely would've found himself in the same situation as Parise, a healthy scratch most nights with a $7.5 million cap hit....which is essentially dead cap space, no?
 

ThePsychicSaw

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No, because there would still be the threat of being hit with the cap recapture penalty.
Unless I keep missing it, what is this penalty.

Lets say realistically Parise Retired after 1 more year and worse case scenario Suter after 2 more years, what is this penalty exactly?

this is the only justification i've seen so far for this move, but no one has broken this down, and its a huge assumption to make when Parise seemingly could have been LTIR and Suter is still a top4 dman without question right now, all in the face of taking on 12 to 14 million in GUARANTEED DEAD CAP for 3 years straight; its just insanity to me. I need specifics, because this is one of the worst moves Ive ever seen in this league, to me.
 

triggrman

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Trades not really an option when you have the threat of recapture always hanging over you. Guerin would have to keep that dead cap space in the event the recapture kicked in, correct?

Parise was no longer a contributor on this team as evidenced by him being a healthy scratch towards the end of the regular season and post season, so there is no question that a buyout makes sense for him.

Suter was a contributor last season, and probably would be for another season or two. But by seasons 3 and 4, he most likely would've found himself in the same situation as Parise, a healthy scratch most nights with a $7.5 million cap hit....which is essentially dead cap space, no?
He would just have to address the recapture if or when it happened.
 

sxvnert

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This move also saves the ownership cash (around 4m per) spread out over 8 years. All new contracts for the young talent can be bridged on 3-4 yr deals (or until the year before they become a UFA).

Regardless of how people perceive the number shock, its the right move for both sides.
 
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MuckOG

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Unless I keep missing it, what is this penalty.

Lets say realistically Parise Retired after 1 more year and worse case scenario Suter after 2 more years, what is this penalty exactly?

this is the only justification i've seen so far for this move, but no one has broken this down, and its a huge assumption to make when Parise seemingly could have been LTIR and Suter is still a top4 dman without question right now, all in the face of taking on 12 to 14 million in GUARANTEED DEAD CAP for 3 years straight; its just insanity to me. I need specifics, because this is one of the worst moves Ive ever seen in this league, to me.

If recapture went into effect, the Wild would have to pay the entire cap hit of $7.5 million AAV for each player and spread the "cap advantage" of $19.37 million for each spread out over the remaining 4 years on their deals. This would be deadly.
 
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Rabid Ranger

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This move also saves the ownership cash (around 4m per) spread out over 8 years. All new contracts for the young talent can be bridged on 3-4 yr deals (or until the year before they become a UFA).

Regardless of how people perceive the number shock, its the right move for both sides.

It doesn't appear Suter thought it was the right move. LOL.
 

TS Quint

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Where did Guerin even mention Dumba yesterday? You're speculating that these buyouts were done in order to keep Dumba, but they could have gone 4+4 and kept Dumba anyway. They could have bought out just Parise and kept Dumba. Maybe Dumba gets traded after the expansion draft, or after this season.

If you read Guerin's quotes yesterday, he said this was about getting younger and taking advantage of the cap space this year. It's anybody's guess what they do with the cap space, but if they're using it to "chase assets", that's technically what every GM should be doing.
So he did it to get a player or two or a few on a 1 year contract? This is even more bizarre.
 

ThePsychicSaw

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If recapture went into effect, the Wild would have to pay the entire cap hit of $7.5 million for each player and spread the "cap advantage" of $19.37 million for each spread out over the remaining 4 years on their deals. This would be deadly.

I'm using Russo's article from last year as my source:
So just to clarify, IF (again I keep stressing this because the other option now, is GUARANTEED dead cap, and in this hypothetical you have to ignore other ifs like he or suter keep playing somehow, or get injured at that age and is LTIR, or his organization actually TALKED with them about this all apparently) but if, let just take Parise, he retired next year, the team would have dead cap of $7.5million + $6.45million for 3 years?
 

Sota Popinski

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So he did it to get a player or two or a few on a 1 year contract? This is even more bizarre.
NOBODY KNOWS, dude. It's been 24 hours. Let's wait and see what plays out. He isn't going to announce his plan to everyone. He has a ton of cap space now, which gives him more options now than he had with Parise and Suter on the team.
 

triggrman

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If recapture went into effect, the Wild would have to pay the entire cap hit of $7.5 million AAV for each player and spread the "cap advantage" of $19.37 million for each spread out over the remaining 4 years on their deals. This would be deadly.

I'm using Russo's article from last year as my source:
The max penalty cap hit each year cannot exceed the actually cap hit.
 

MuckOG

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So just to clarify, IF (again I keep stressing this because the other option now, is GUARANTEED dead cap, and in this hypothetical you have to ignore other ifs like he or suter keep playing somehow, or get injured at that age and is LTIR, or his organization actually TALKED with them about this all apparently) but if, let just take Parise, he retired next year, the team would have dead cap of $7.5million + $6.45million for 3 years?

What would happen is that the Wild could get charged $7.5 million AAV until 2025 when his contract expired. Then for 3 seasons after that (until 2028), the cap hit would be $7.5 million + $7.5 million + $4.37 million (until the cap benefit was repaid)
 

preds1

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Read an article that said Suter was pissed and hung up on Guerin during the call.

Zach Parise Discusses Reaction To His, Ryan Suter's Wild Contract Buyouts


:nashville

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