Confirmed Buy-Out [MIN] Zach Parise and Ryan Suter

[ThePsychicSaw]

What would happen is that the Wild could get charged $7.5 million AAV until 2025 when his contract expired. Then for 3 seasons after that (until 2028), the cap hit would be $7.5 million + $7.5 million + $4.37 million (until the cap benefit was repaid)

Ah, I understand, thank you.

Interesting, that does make it so much more reasonable of a risk to weigh and makes more sense. It was so obviously an awful decision that I kept questioning my knowledge of all the specific ramifications.

 

[TS Quint]

NOBODY KNOWS, dude. It's been 24 hours. Let's wait and see what plays out. He isn't going to announce his plan to everyone. He has a ton of cap space now, which gives him more options now than he had with Parise and Suter on the team.

Isn’t that the worrying part “dude”? He seems to have handcuffed himself more than anything. To the point where the even Wild fans can’t even guess how it makes sense. When I try to make sense of what you thought the plan was, you fall apart to “NOBODY KNOWS dude”. Which is exactly what I am saying. Nobody knows and no one can make sense of it.

I guess Wild fans have resorted to Throwing pennies down a well and wishing for the best somehow.

 

[ThePsychicSaw]

Isn’t that the worrying part “dude”? He seems to have handcuffed himself more than anything. To the point where the even Wild fans can’t even guess how it makes sense. When I try to make sense of what you thought the plan was, you fall apart to “NOBODY KNOWS dude”. Which is exactly what I am saying. Nobody knows and no one can make sense of it.

I guess Wild fans have resorted to Throwing pennies down a well and wishing for the best somehow.

I still find it to be an awful move, and getting tidbits of that poor communication to these star players just adds to it considerably, but the recapture penalty specifics put it into better context and risk management where an argument COULD be made in hypotheticals.

 

[TS Quint]

This move also saves the ownership cash (around 4m per) spread out over 8 years. All new contracts for the young talent can be bridged on 3-4 yr deals (or until the year before they become a UFA).

Regardless of how people perceive the number shock, its the right move for both sides.

So it’s a Melnyk move to save cash?

What does a Kaprisov contract look like at 3 years to walk him straight to free agency?

I’m really trying to understand here. The more reasons I read the less it makes sense.

 

[MuckOG]

I still find it to be an awful move, and getting tidbits of that poor communication to these star players just adds to it considerably, but the recapture penalty specifics put it into better context and risk management where an argument COULD be made in hypotheticals.

I guess it comes down to cost certainty vs cost uncertainty.

 

[Forgotusername]

Well, I think more than a few fans back then thought it was a pretty risky move. Although fans were not as tuned into the horrors of the back-end of the contract like they are now. But 2x13 years?

It was a swing for the fences for Minny. Which cratered.

I expect both players to re-sign with Minny for peanuts, league minimum. Which would be the Honorable thing to do, and I think they are Honorable guys.

Pretty sure they can't resign with the team that bought them out. Also from the sounds of it Suter isn't going to do the Wild any favours.

 

[MuckOG]

Pretty sure they can't resign with the team that bought them out. Also from the sounds of it Suter isn't going to do the Wild any favours.

That rule is only for compliance buyouts. Regular buyouts (like Suter and Parise) allows the team to re-sign their players immediately. But your last point is spot on, no chance that Suter would re-sign if the Wild offered him a deal (not that I think Guerin would do that anyway).

 

[Sota Popinski]

Isn’t that the worrying part “dude”? He seems to have handcuffed himself more than anything. To the point where the even Wild fans can’t even guess how it makes sense. When I try to make sense of what you thought the plan was, you fall apart to “NOBODY KNOWS dude”. Which is exactly what I am saying. Nobody knows and no one can make sense of it.

I guess Wild fans have resorted to Throwing pennies down a well and wishing for the best somehow.

It isn't worrying to me. Guerin came out yesterday and said what the plan was. Create cap relief for this year, get younger, get better. Just because he hasn't announced to the world exactly what players he's going after (which he's not allowed to do), you're claiming it doesn't make sense. Maybe he trades for Eichel, Kuznetsov or some other top 6 C. Maybe he gets a player like Palat or Killorn on the cheap from a cap strapped team.

Would you rather have Parise and Suter on the roster or an additional $10M in cap space? He has way more options now than he did two days ago. But I guess according to you he's somehow "handcuffed himself" with $26M in cap space. Boy, he's really put himself in a corner now.

 

[Yog S'loth]

Would you rather have Parise and Suter on the roster or an additional $10M in cap space? He has way more options now than he did two days ago. But I guess according to you he's somehow "handcuffed himself" with $26M in cap space. Boy, he's really put himself in a corner now.

I mean, I guess it makes sense if your "option" to use that 10m in cap space... is for a single season only.

That $52m or whatever in dead cap over the next few years is pretty legit. It's a real thing.

 

[Sota Popinski]

I mean, I guess it makes sense if your "option" to use that 10m in cap space... is for a single season only.

That $52m or whatever in dead cap over the next few years is pretty legit. It's a real thing.

And it was just as much reality 48 hours ago before the buyouts. What changed?

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Funny how many people think the final years of these contracts dropped out of the sky yesterday. They were always there….either in buyout form or as 38-39 year old players. Nothing changed.

 

[TaLoN]

This means that Matt Dumba is staying, or he will be traded on the Wild's terms. Before this, the Wild's three protection slots on defense were going to be those with continuing NMCs: Jonas Brodin, Jared Spurgeon, and Ryan Suter...and everyone else exposed. With Suter now bought out, Dumba now slots into that third protection slot. Up front, Nico Sturm likely slots into that seventh slot.

I suspect that Ryan Suter and Zach Parise were asked to waive their respective NMCs and both said no, leading to the buyouts.

As for the pick, I suspect Carson Soucy, unless Bill Guerin shocks the hockey world and decides to protect Soucy. But remember, Soucy and Dumba are both 1994-born players...Soucy has only played just over 100 games in the NHL while Dumba has played over 450.

BTW, players who are bought out cannot be re-signed by the buyout team until after the next season ends.

Little of this is true.

Dumba was always going to only move on the Wild's terms. The team was likely to go 4-4-1 with Dumba protected prior to this. Now they can go 7-3-1, which also allows to protect Greenway and Foligno as well... bonus slots for bottom of the lineup guys Hartman and Sturm.

Neither Suter nor Parise were ever asked to waive. Guerin said he has been talking with the owner for 6 months on the buyouts. Both Parise and Suter have confirmed they were never asked to waive.

Also, you're technically wrong on the buyout meaning they can't be signed by the Wild, though I'd be shocked if they were anyway.

That rule only applies to compliance type buyouts. Those are special buyouts only available when the league creates a compliance buyout window. Not done very often. This is a standard buyout, not a compliance buyout. That stipulation does not exist here.

 

[Em etah Eh]

St Louis is set a LD, I can see the Hawks close to home. Colorado NOPE.

Gunnarson just retired, we could lose Dunn to the ED. Krug Scandella Mikolla would be the remaining 3 D. We could find a place for Suter if he really wanted to come here.

 

[TaLoN]

I'm thinking this was a mutual move all around. Minnesota is probably an internal budget team until league revenues rebound anyway, so they probably don't want/need the cap space anyway during a rebuild.

This is completely untrue. No idea where you even got that idea.

 

[TS Quint]

It isn't worrying to me. Guerin came out yesterday and said what the plan was. Create cap relief for this year, get younger, get better. Just because he hasn't announced to the world exactly what players he's going after (which he's not allowed to do), you're claiming it doesn't make sense. Maybe he trades for Eichel, Kuznetsov or some other top 6 C. Maybe he gets a player like Palat or Killorn on the cheap from a cap strapped team.

Would you rather have Parise and Suter on the roster or an additional $10M in cap space? He has way more options now than he did two days ago. But I guess according to you he's somehow "handcuffed himself" with $26M in cap space. Boy, he's really put himself in a corner now.

It’s flexibility for one year to maybe pick up some FAs who had a down year looking to rebound. Then they have to go because They don’t have the space to keep them because of these buyouts. It’s not the kind of cap space that lets you take on a big long term contract like Eichel. That’s nonsense. Eichel isn’t going to look at that situation and think the Wild are going to be a winning team for him to play on.

saying “get younger, get better” is easy. Well sure, of course, everyone would want to do that ideally. Getting younger makes sense with what he has done. Better? I don’t see the path.

they are also a worse team without Suter. Parise will be out of the league before the big cap penalties would have kicked in, just a waste. They didn’t ret any important cap relief. They just wanted them gone.

 

[MuckOG]

I mean, I guess it makes sense if your "option" to use that 10m in cap space... is for a single season only.

That $52m or whatever in dead cap over the next few years is pretty legit. It's a real thing.

Yep, and it would've been there if Parise/Suter were healthy scratches in the press box too.

 

[Ciao]

Dumba doesn't have to sell his house

 

[TS Quint]

Yep, and it would've been there if Parise/Suter were healthy scratches in the press box too.

How does Suter go from top pair to press box next year? You’re really drinking the koolaide.

 

[TaLoN]

Dumba doesn't have to sell his house

Guerin has always loved Dumba. Fans thought he was going to be forced to trade him just because of the numbers eventually, but the fans had no idea what Guerin was planning either.

I don't think Dumba was ever at real risk of being traded at all in Guerin's eyes.

 

[TaLoN]

How does Suter go from top pair to press box next year?

He wasn't top pair this year, that was Brodin and Dumba (not Suter and Spurgeon)... but no, it wouldn't be next year in the press box, but with his age and slow decline, 2-3yrs out he sure could be.

 

[MuckOG]

How does Suter go from top pair to press box next year?

He wouldn't immediately, and would probably be serviceable for another 1-2 years, but years 3 and 4 will see his role reduced just like Parise's was. Combine that with Guerin cleaning house on the "old guard" and changing the culture, it's not hard to see why the move was made.

All that being said, I'm in favor of the Parise buyout and lukewarm on Suter's. If it were me, I probably would've kept him around.

 

[bucks_oil]

This is completely untrue. No idea where you even got that idea.

I breezed in here on page 30 of the discussion. I was hopeful it was a mutual thing to chase a cup. I've been corrected already, no need to get your nose out of joint.

 

[TS Quint]

He wasn't top pair this year, that was Brodin and Dumba (not Suter and Spurgeon)... but no, it wouldn't be next year in the press box, but with his age and slow decline, 2-3yrs out he sure could be.

The top 4 played equal time. However you want to number them it’s moot. Suter played the most minutes.

 

[TaLoN]

The top 4 played equal time. However you want to number them it’s moot. Suter played the most minutes.

Brodin and Dumba played against the top lines.

Only reason Suter got more minutes than Dumba, our first year coach was pretty thick skilled about Dumba's usage on the PP for over half the year.

Brodin, he's never been a power play wizard himself.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

How does Suter go from top pair to press box next year? You’re really drinking the koolaide.

There was a pretty steep decline to his game last year and yes, that means he went from very good to ok. But there is too much tread on the tires to not think he is trending the wrong way. They bought him out a year early at the most.