Michkov vs Demidov

[Fantomas]

A lot has been said about the Habs passing on Michkov (and the Yotes), but I think the Jackets are also big losers. Fantilli has been very underwhelming.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Bobrov was the genius that had two top ten pick complete busts in Lias Andersson and Vitaliy Kravtsov. He also oversaw the very underwhelming Kaapo Kakko pick. Wouldn’t trust this guy. Do the opposite.

Yes and he’s also the genius that drafted Slakovsky, Beck, Hutson, Demidov, Reinbacher, Fowler and Hage within a 3 years span.

Way too early to tell for Hage but the rest seems to all have been hits and the best pick at their respective draft position.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Yes and he’s also the genius that drafted Slakovsky, Beck, Hutson, Demidov, Reinbacher, Fowler and Hage within a 3 years span.

Way too early to tell for Hage but the rest seems to all have been hits and the best pick at their respective draft position.

First of all, plenty of those guys have proven literally nothing. Saying he drafted a player two months ago that you like doesn't mean anything, so take Demidov and Hage completely out of the discussion.

And I don't know how Beck has proven to be some correct pick. He was an early second rounder that looks like he'll probably end up a bottom sixer. Looks like a pretty average pick (not good or bad), and nothing to even discuss. Reinbacher, well, I'm not sure that's the type of pick to really be bragging about. If anything, you could say that's another of his swings and a miss.

Slafkovsky, Hutson, and Fowler look like the picks where if you wanted to brag you could. Then again, the point I was making was about his supposed expertise in Russia (and to an extent Europe as he oversaw the Rangers European drafting). Isn't the point people have tried to make that he has super secret connections in Russia so he knew better than anyone whether to take Michkov? Doesn't seem like he has shown any expertise in Russia, and if anything the opposite.

Talking about whether he's capable of making some nice picks as director of a team's full scouting department is a different discussion. And frankly, I'm not sure that record is what you say it is. Most of those players have not even stepped foot in the NHL.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

As much conjecture as was used in the reliance on stats for comparing 2 players 1 year apart in age who developed during COVID. Someone can go to the effort to actually watch both players play; unfortunately all one can do when discussing character concerns of a young player is look at the available factual evidence, even if it's only circumstantial.

If Michkov was considered as good as Bedard, he would have gone 2nd overall. (This is with the fact we now know with 100% certainty in that he wanted to play in the NHL) The 3 year wait wouldn't have stopped anyone from picking him

Yet we have the Habs director of scouting saying that the contract was indeed a key deterrent . Colour me surprised ( not really I’ve been saying this since page 1) .

First of all, plenty of those guys have proven literally nothing. Saying he drafted a player two months ago that you like doesn't mean anything, so take Demidov and Hage completely out of the discussion.

And I don't know how Beck has proven to be some correct pick. He was an early second rounder that looks like he'll probably end up a bottom sixer. Looks like a pretty average pick (not good or bad), and nothing to even discuss. Reinbacher, well, I'm not sure that's the type of pick to really be bragging about. If anything, you could say that's another of his swings and a miss.

Slafkovsky, Hutson, and Fowler look like the picks where if you wanted to brag you could. Then again, the point I was making was about his supposed expertise in Russia (and to an extent Europe as he oversaw the Rangers European drafting). Isn't the point people have tried to make that he has super secret connections in Russia so he knew better than anyone whether to take Michkov? Doesn't seem like he has shown any expertise in Russia, and if anything the opposite.

Talking about whether he's capable of making some nice picks as director of a team's full scouting department is a different discussion. And frankly, I'm not sure that record is what you say it is. Most of those players have not even stepped foot in the NHL.

Bragging about a 1 st overall though ? I mean he’s rebounded after a rough rookie season but shouldn’t 1 st overalls be overwhelming hits in general ?

 

[Xirik]

a 1st OV pick and a group of players that have a total amount of 2 NHL games played between them is genius.

I think the famous quote of "Don't count your chickens before they hatch." is Apt here.

 

[Baksfamous112]

First of all, plenty of those guys have proven literally nothing. Saying he drafted a player two months ago that you like doesn't mean anything, so take Demidov and Hage completely out of the discussion.

And I don't know how Beck has proven to be some correct pick. He was an early second rounder that looks like he'll probably end up a bottom sixer. Looks like a pretty average pick (not good or bad), and nothing to even discuss. Reinbacher, well, I'm not sure that's the type of pick to really be bragging about. If anything, you could say that's another of his swings and a miss.

Slafkovsky, Hutson, and Fowler look like the picks where if you wanted to brag you could. Then again, the point I was making was about his supposed expertise in Russia (and to an extent Europe as he oversaw the Rangers European drafting). Isn't the point people have tried to make that he has super secret connections in Russia so he knew better than anyone whether to take Michkov? Doesn't seem like he has shown any expertise in Russia, and if anything the opposite.

Talking about whether he's capable of making some nice picks as director of a team's full scouting department is a different discussion. And frankly, I'm not sure that record is what you say it is. Most of those players have not even stepped foot in the NHL.

I’m fine with leaving out Demidov and Hage since they have just been drafted. I’m not exactly sure what the issue is with Reinbacher but he’s most likely going to make the team out of training camp. I’m curious as to why you think he’s a « swing and miss »

As for Beck, I will take a good defensively responsible center at pick 33-36 any day of the week. That’s a huge W for whoever makes that pick. I know that on HFboards you’re either an valuable elite player or another dime a dozen player - There’s no in between - but Beck at 33 is a brilliant pick.

Odd of you to also point Slafkovsky as yet another 1st overall pick as if he was the clear cut pick in that draft. We both know he was a risky pick that ended up being the right one after all

a 1st OV pick and a group of players that have a total amount of 2 NHL games played between them is genius.

I think the famous quote of "Don't count your chickens before they hatch." is Apt here.

But you can make a pretty good educated guess as to where they are going to land right now or at least have a good idea of the kind of player they could be in the league. Let’s not get silly

 

[Xirik]

I’m fine with leaving out Demidov and Hage since they have just been drafted. I’m not exactly sure what the issue is with Reinbacher but he’s most likely going to make the team out of training camp. I’m curious as to why you think he’s a « swing and miss »

As for Beck, I will take a good defensively responsible center at pick 33-36 any day of the week. That’s a huge W for whoever makes that pick. I know that on HFboards you’re either an valuable elite player or another dime a dozen player - There’s no in between - but Beck at 33 is a brilliant pick.

Odd of you to also point Slafkovsky as yet another 1st overall pick as if he was the clear cut pick in that draft. We both know he was a risky pick that ended up being the right one after all

But you can make a pretty good educated guess as to where they are going to land right now or at least have a good idea of the kind of player they could be in the league. Let’s not get silly

You included a goalie one of the most random as _____ positions which sometimes feels like gambling. So many goalies have been great in other places and then were a catastrophe in the NHL.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

I’m fine with leaving out Demidov and Hage since they have just been drafted. I’m not exactly sure what the issue is with Reinbacher but he’s most likely going to make the team out of training camp. I’m curious as to why you think he’s a « swing and miss »

As for Beck, I will take a good defensively responsible center at pick 33-36 any day of the week. That’s a huge W for whoever makes that pick. I know that on HFboards you’re either an valuable elite player or another dime a dozen player - There’s no in between - but Beck at 33 is a brilliant pick.

Odd of you to also point Slafkovsky as yet another 1st overall pick as if he was the clear cut pick in that draft. We both know he was a risky pick that ended up being the right one after all

But you can make a pretty good educated guess as to where they are going to land right now or at least have a good idea of the kind of player they could be in the league. Let’s not get silly

How do we know he was the right pick ? I mean avoiding Wright seems sage but Nemec, Cooley , Gauthier , Jiricek , Geekie, Mateychuck ( probably missing a couple ) are all developing tremendously and the majority have yet to debut as pros . So while the pick is certainly looking up I’m not sure it’s victory lap time at this point . Some of those guys weren’t realistic options at 1 but it’s not out of the question that one of the above becomes the best player in this draft ( which doesn’t look incredibly strong in general ) .

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

Bobrov was quoted as saying Michkov was the "Russian Bedard". He also said after the draft Habs management felt Michkov wasn't someone who would help them win a cup, and Reinbacher is.

Really seems like this was a Gorton & Hughes decision rather than some sinister information Bobrov had.

When did he say that i watch the Habs pretty closely and never heard Bobrov say that but i do know that in last years draft video our team talked about Michkov and said they prefer the other russian next year obviously talking about Demidov

 

[dgibb10]

A lot has been said about the Habs passing on Michkov (and the Yotes), but I think the Jackets are also big losers. Fantilli has been very underwhelming.

These are 2 players even strength scoring rates. One of them is fantilli, the other bedard.

The only concerning factor around Fantilli is the fact that the blue jackets shot a pretty atrocious 6% on the power play, and converted 7.09 xGoals/60 into just 2.77 actual goals/60 in the PP with him on the ice.

 

[Fantomas]

View attachment 903707
These are 2 players even strength scoring rates. One of them is fantilli, the other bedard.

The only concerning factor around Fantilli is the fact that the blue jackets shot a pretty atrocious 6% on the power play, and converted 7.09 xGoals/60 into just 2.77 actual goals/60 in the PP with him on the ice.

The concerning thing about Fantilli is that he doesn't have elite hockey IQ and that will hold him back. These numbers are neither here nor there. If you want to argue that Fantilli = Bedard and this is your evidence then you're welcome to look silly.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

A lot has been said about the Habs passing on Michkov (and the Yotes), but I think the Jackets are also big losers. Fantilli has been very underwhelming.

Huh? Fantilli came as advertised. Columbus was coached by an amateur who had no idea how to create offense.

 

[Fantomas]

Huh? Fantilli came as advertised. Columbus was coached by an amateur who had no idea how to create offense.

Fantilli was pretty much what I expected, but he's not a future superstar.

 

[dgibb10]

The concerning thing about Fantilli is that he doesn't have elite hockey IQ and that will hold him back. These numbers are neither here nor there. If you want to argue that Fantilli = Bedard and this is your evidence then you're welcome to look silly.

Fantilli produced excellently even strength, especially for his age.

On par with bedard, ahead of Carlsson significantly.

He was a part of a pretty atrocious PP. But the underlying numbers weren't awful on that PP, and the lack of production there seems to be almost entirely due to shooting luck. You could realistically expect his PP production to nearly triple next year based on shooting luck alone.

If the PP still lags behind in a couple years, you start to get worried.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Fantilli was pretty much what I expected, but he's not a future superstar.

I’m with you on this. I think he’ll be a better version of what Beniers is. He’s a good athlete with a good motor and he plays in all zones and has good offense, but I don’t think he’s the type of player who drives a team offensively. He lacks that true elite level hockey sense or scoring skills. Can maybe the second or third best forward on a Cup contender, but unlikely the best.

 

[Fantomas]

Fantilli produced excellently even strength, especially for his age.

On par with bedard, ahead of Carlsson significantly.

He was a part of a pretty atrocious PP. But the underlying numbers weren't awful on that PP, and the lack of production there seems to be almost entirely due to shooting luck. You could realistically expect his PP production to nearly triple next year based on shooting luck alone.

If the PP still lags behind in a couple years, you start to get worried.

You cite these numbers like they're revelations. They're not. They say very little, especially about very young players. Even you admit they're highly contextual.

I would take Carlsson. I think even the Jackets would if they had a do-over.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Fantilli was pretty much what I expected, but he's not a future superstar.

He looks to me like I expected. I projected him to be a 70-80 point 2 way, high pace center.

You cite these numbers like they're revelations. They're not. They say very little, especially about very young players. Even you admit they're highly contextual.

I would take Carlsson. I think even the Jackets would if they had a do-over.

So would I, but Carlsson was never an option for Columbus.

 

[Fantomas]

So would I, but Carlsson was never an option for Columbus.

You're right. I forgot Carlsson went ahead of Fantilli.

 

[Garbageyuk]

A lot has been said about the Habs passing on Michkov (and the Yotes), but I think the Jackets are also big losers. Fantilli has been very underwhelming.

Lmao WTF

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

I hope YOU'RE alright

This habs fan still can't believe Demidov slid to us, couldn't be happier

Demidov is a great prospect, I literally never said anything bad about him. I just think Michkov trends better and will end up a better pro, I'm not sure why some Habs fans are freaking out and attacking me over it. lol. I think he's a good pick at #5. And also I don't hate the Canadians, I praised the Laine pickup in that thread said he'd be great on Suzuki's wing because he's a two-way stud, not sure where the hate comes from. Yes, I'm alright, thanks for checking in bro.

 

[squashmaple]

Lmao WTF

Columbus could’ve won the lottery and taken Bedard and that user would be calling him a worthless bust.

 

[NikolaTesla]

How do we know he was the right pick ? I mean avoiding Wright seems sage but Nemec, Cooley , Gauthier , Jiricek , Geekie, Mateychuck ( probably missing a couple ) are all developing tremendously and the majority have yet to debut as pros . So while the pick is certainly looking up I’m not sure it’s victory lap time at this point . Some of those guys weren’t realistic options at 1 but it’s not out of the question that one of the above becomes the best player in this draft ( which doesn’t look incredibly strong in general ) .

Oh now its not a good argument anymore? Because i thought it was the best argument in the demidov vs michkov discussion.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Oh now it’s not a good argument anymore? Because i thought it was the best argument in the demidov vs michkov discussion.

I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say here . Plz go on.

 

[HabsQC]

Demidov is a great prospect, I literally never said anything bad about him. I just think Michkov trends better and will end up a better pro, I'm not sure why some Habs fans are freaking out and attacking me over it. lol. I think he's a good pick at #5. And also I don't hate the Canadians, I praised the Laine pickup in that thread said he'd be great on Suzuki's wing because he's a two-way stud, not sure where the hate comes from. Yes, I'm alright, thanks for checking in bro.

I got insulted by some on the Habs board for saying I would have taken Michkov over Reinbacher and still would, so I'm not surprised. Opinions vary a lot on the subject, but there are some who are ready to go to internet war over it and just won't understand that different opinions exist.

Thankfully, it is is a loud minority who act like this.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Demidov is a great prospect, I literally never said anything bad about him. I just think Michkov trends better and will end up a better pro, I'm not sure why some Habs fans are freaking out and attacking me over it. lol. I think he's a good pick at #5. And also I don't hate the Canadians, I praised the Laine pickup in that thread said he'd be great on Suzuki's wing because he's a two-way stud, not sure where the hate comes from. Yes, I'm alright, thanks for checking in bro.

Good post . I agree with basically everything here and additionally I supported the Laine acquisition as well. Worthwhile gamble