OT: MIchigan Sports Thread: UM wins Natty Championship

[guinness]

Masters of the draft: Ranking MLB GMs at their ability to find young talent (calltothepen.com)

DD at #3, with an average drafted player WAR per draft of nearly 20, Avila at #19, with 1.1. However, I think the ranking also skew things, as all it takes is one or two all-star players, like a JV, to pump up the WAR.

MLB is such a screwy league though, not to say that Avila isn't running out of rope, but I remember a couple years ago, when Bless You Boys had a stat of like only 12% of drafted players ever make it to the Show.

I recall when I lived near Fresno, and got to see guys like the Brandons, Posey, Bumgarner make it through AAA, but also some really good AAAA guys that could just never stick in SF or elsewhere. I got to see Jazz Chisholm play in Missoula, or Nick Senzel for a hot minute, when Billings played a series here, and he's struggled for Cincy as the #2 overall pick in 2016, whereas Jazz eventually caught on with Miami, and is doing well as an undrafted FA.

Players were drafted in front of Mike Trout, such as Jacob Turner.

However, the GM is ultimately responsible for hiring the people that run the scouting, the scouts, etc. I don't think the Tigers are bad at pitching ATM, but they are by far, the worst run scoring team. Eventually, the pitching will implode without run support.

 

[Ricelund]

 

[Ricelund]

Wasn't the Suarez trade Avila too?

Suarez was actually one of DD's big screwups. Probably his biggest screwup.

Aside from the trades that Al has bungled, let's take a look his notable FA signings:

2015
- Justin Upton
- Mike Aviles
- Mark Lowe
- Mike Pelfrey
- Jordan Zimmermann
- Jarrod Saltalamacchia

2016
- Alex Avila

2017
- Mike Fiers
- Leonys Martin
- Niko Goodrum

2018
- Josh Harrison
- Gordon Beckham
- Jordy Mercer
- Tyson Ross
- Matt Moore

2019
- Cameron Maybin
- Jordy Mercer
- Hector Santiago
- Ivan Nova
- Alex Wilson
- Jonathan Schoop
- CJ Cron
- Austin Romine

2020
- Julio Tehran
- Nomar Mazara
- Renato Nunez
- Jonathan Schoop
- Wilson Ramos
- Derek Holland
- Robbie Grossman
- Jose Urena

2021
- Michael Pineda
- Andrew Chafin
- Wily Peralta
- Drew Hutchison
- Javier Baez
- Eduardo Rodriguez

Now, I get that most of these were not "go for it" type signings. Most of them were just warm bodies that could fit into an MLB lineup. Some were reclamation projects with upside that could be flipped to other teams if they'd worked out.

But... my god, what an awful track record of FA signings. Baez and Rodriguez aren't looking great either right now.

That 2015 class is particularly puke-worthy as they were still trying to go for it.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

I don't necessarily agree that we need less nerds in the front office, but I do admire the passion and empathize with the frustration.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Suarez was actually one of DD's big screwups. Probably his biggest screwup.

Aside from the trades that Al has bungled, let's take a look his notable FA signings:

2015
- Justin Upton
- Mike Aviles
- Mark Lowe
- Mike Pelfrey
- Jordan Zimmermann
- Jarrod Saltalamacchia

2016
- Alex Avila

2017
- Mike Fiers
- Leonys Martin
- Niko Goodrum

2018
- Josh Harrison
- Gordon Beckham
- Jordy Mercer
- Tyson Ross
- Matt Moore

2019
- Cameron Maybin
- Jordy Mercer
- Hector Santiago
- Ivan Nova
- Alex Wilson
- Jonathan Schoop
- CJ Cron
- Austin Romine

2020
- Julio Tehran
- Nomar Mazara
- Renato Nunez
- Jonathan Schoop
- Wilson Ramos
- Derek Holland
- Robbie Grossman
- Jose Urena

2021
- Michael Pineda
- Andrew Chafin
- Wily Peralta
- Drew Hutchison
- Javier Baez
- Eduardo Rodriguez

Now, I get that most of these were not "go for it" type signings. Most of them were just warm bodies that could fit into an MLB lineup. Some were reclamation projects with upside that could be flipped to other teams if they'd worked out.

But... my god, what an awful track record of FA signings. Baez and Rodriguez aren't looking great either right now.

That 2015 class is particularly puke-worthy as they were still trying to go for it.

And the cherry on the shit Sunday is that any player who played remotely well was able to walk and we (the Tigers) continued to accept getting worse

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I don't necessarily agree that we need less nerds in the front office, but I do admire the passion and empathize with the frustration.

Agreed. The Red Sox were/are nerds. And they won like what 3/4? Titles? Couple other teams were nerdy and went deep into the playoffs. I think there needs to be a good mix though

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

 

[Ricelund]

I figured this was the case. There's no way he hasn't been hurt the whole time.

 

[Winger98]

Masters of the draft: Ranking MLB GMs at their ability to find young talent (calltothepen.com)

DD at #3, with an average drafted player WAR per draft of nearly 20, Avila at #19, with 1.1. However, I think the ranking also skew things, as all it takes is one or two all-star players, like a JV, to pump up the WAR.

MLB is such a screwy league though, not to say that Avila isn't running out of rope, but I remember a couple years ago, when Bless You Boys had a stat of like only 12% of drafted players ever make it to the Show.

I recall when I lived near Fresno, and got to see guys like the Brandons, Posey, Bumgarner make it through AAA, but also some really good AAAA guys that could just never stick in SF or elsewhere. I got to see Jazz Chisholm play in Missoula, or Nick Senzel for a hot minute, when Billings played a series here, and he's struggled for Cincy as the #2 overall pick in 2016, whereas Jazz eventually caught on with Miami, and is doing well as an undrafted FA.

Players were drafted in front of Mike Trout, such as Jacob Turner.

However, the GM is ultimately responsible for hiring the people that run the scouting, the scouts, etc. I don't think the Tigers are bad at pitching ATM, but they are by far, the worst run scoring team. Eventually, the pitching will implode without run support.

and I think the average rookie age is like 24 or 25. The Tigers have slow walked the rebuild, they have had to build their farm system essentially from the ground up because DD left it so empty. The kids coming up the past year or two are really the very start of the payoff from it. Anyone expecting a faster timeline...I don't know what to tell them at this point. The Tigers weren't spending and they had nothing in the farm system to bridge the gap.

I don't trust the idea of building through drafting pitching because pitchers seem to get hurt too often and your investment goes up in smoke. Draft hitters, trade/sign pitchers and develop them from 3rd or later rounds. But it is what it is and it'll make/break Avila. imo.

 

[Winger98]

Suarez was actually one of DD's big screwups. Probably his biggest screwup.

Aside from the trades that Al has bungled, let's take a look his notable FA signings:

2015
- Justin Upton
- Mike Aviles
- Mark Lowe
- Mike Pelfrey
- Jordan Zimmermann
- Jarrod Saltalamacchia

2016
- Alex Avila

2017
- Mike Fiers
- Leonys Martin
- Niko Goodrum

2018
- Josh Harrison
- Gordon Beckham
- Jordy Mercer
- Tyson Ross
- Matt Moore

2019
- Cameron Maybin
- Jordy Mercer
- Hector Santiago
- Ivan Nova
- Alex Wilson
- Jonathan Schoop
- CJ Cron
- Austin Romine

2020
- Julio Tehran
- Nomar Mazara
- Renato Nunez
- Jonathan Schoop
- Wilson Ramos
- Derek Holland
- Robbie Grossman
- Jose Urena

2021
- Michael Pineda
- Andrew Chafin
- Wily Peralta
- Drew Hutchison
- Javier Baez
- Eduardo Rodriguez

Now, I get that most of these were not "go for it" type signings. Most of them were just warm bodies that could fit into an MLB lineup. Some were reclamation projects with upside that could be flipped to other teams if they'd worked out.

But... my god, what an awful track record of FA signings. Baez and Rodriguez aren't looking great either right now.

That 2015 class is particularly puke-worthy as they were still trying to go for it.

You typically get what you pay for. You admit they're really just a lot of warm bodies being signed, but then lament how awful it is. Yeah, they're awful. It's what we paid for.

I'm not sure why we would bash Rodriguez, though. His stat line this year is pretty in line with his career numbers, other than his k/9.

 

[chances14]

so the flint firebirds are one win away from the finals. that's cool

 

[Ricelund]

You typically get what you pay for. You admit they're really just a lot of warm bodies being signed, but then lament how awful it is. Yeah, they're awful. It's what we paid for.

I'm not sure why we would bash Rodriguez, though. His stat line this year is pretty in line with his career numbers, other than his k/9.

You'd hope that some of those guys would've shown some upside or at least put together productive seasons. Most of them just got hurt, were awful, or were DFA'd.

 

[Winger98]

You'd hope that some of those guys would've shown some upside or at least put together productive seasons. Most of them just got hurt, were awful, or were DFA'd.

You do hope they work out, and we had a few (Avila, Fiers was alright until we dealt him, Schoop, Grossman, I want to say Romine and Wilson weren't bad but I'm just running off memory here). but like you said, most were crap. Some (mercer jumps immediately to mind) were dead on arrival.

Knowing that the majority of the guys we signed were the equivalent of scratch off tickets, I don't really get worked up about them not working out. And I don't really hold it against Avila if guys who were previously healthy come here and get hurt - especially pitchers. Pitchers just seem to get hurt a lot, it goes with the job.

Really, this is my biggest gripe with Avila's plan without the benefit of hindsight. Pitching prospects have a tendency to get hurt more often than position players. They might have more upside, but you're running a bigger risk of that guy getting hurt and being nothing. Just look at Fulmer. Got hurt, hasn't been the same. Or that Perez kid. Has never stayed healthy, despite having a massive ceiling, going to be nothing.

Baseball prospects seem a lot more hit and miss than other sports to begin with. Drafting heavily at a riskier position has always seemed like Avila has been taking a bigger risk.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Well, I spent $180 bucks per ticket (two sections to the left of the visitor dugout). to see the Tigers play the Yankees in New York on Saturday. Tickets directly behind the visitors dugout was 280 bucks didn't feel worth it. Not that paying $180 is "worth it" either.

However, I will be able say that I have visited 20 different ball parks over the past decade. First time in almost three years since I have been able to see the Tigers on the road. I do appreciate that the Tigers players are almost always very appreciative when they see Tigers fans behind their dugout on the road. They routinely chat with us and ask us WTF is wrong with us and tell us to spend our money on something else. Good times.

I expect to spend most of my life savings on booze while at the game.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

The Tigers are an excellent example of what you get when your owner refuses to spend money. If not for Cabrera's contract (signed while Mr. I was still alive) the Tigers would have one of the 8 lowest payrolls in MLB.

They should've ponied up for Correa. The Tigers filled the stadium while they were good and the MLB has revenue sharing. There's no reason to be fielding a team this bad year after year.

 

[Ricelund]

This is a good read: This is the failure of the Tigers' rebuild. Can it still be fixed?

The failure, so far, of the Tigers season owes to a lineup full of slumping vets. But the failure of the Tigers rebuild owes to a lineup void of rising stars, which demanded the addition of those vets in the first place. Clemens, a third-round pick of the Tigers in 2018, is the 19th position player to make his MLB debut for Detroit in the past five seasons.

The failure, so far, of the rebuild is this: the first 18 have produced negative-8.4 bWAR for the Tigers. Only three have made a quantifiably positive impact: Akil Baddoo, a shooting star who's lost his shine, Victor Reyes, a 27-year-old utility outfielder, and Jake Rogers, a good defensive catcher recovering from Tommy John.

That group of 18, compiled below, includes seven homegrown players and five first-round picks, Moreover, it includes four of the six eligible position players acquired in the Verlander, Martinez and Wilson/Avila deals, the fuel for the future that wasn't. Together, Rogers and Daz Cameron (Verlander), Lugo and Sergio Alcantara (Martinez) and Paredes (Avila/Wilson) have produced negative-2.1 bWAR for the Tigers

 

[guinness]

The Tigers quietly won their home series against the Twins. Now .500 at home.

They're still bad, but most of the AL Central is hot garbage.

 

[Ricelund]

What would it take to bring Theo Epstein to Detroit?

 

[WesNichols14]

What would it take to bring Theo Epstein to Detroit?

Money and an open job position.

 

[Ricelund]

 

[Winger98]

Money and an open job position.

I think mostly money

edit: re Baez. Yeah, I think all of us wanted Correa. I think the organization wanted Correa But we were unwilling to spend for him. I've seen people dismiss the idea that Chris Ilitch won't spend, but this seems way more like an ownership move than a GM move. And it's why I'm thankful for a a salary floor in the NHL: Ilitch has to spend to a certain level.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I’m not the best guy to ask about baseball. But I’m pretty sure Baez is no good

 

[Ricelund]

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Maybe that’ll wake him up

 

[FabricDetails]