LeetchisGod
This is a bad hockey team.
I would have preferred to trade Miller in a separate deal for picks. Tatar got the Wings a first, second and third from Vegas.
Confirmed with Link: McDonagh + Miller to Tampa Bay for Namestnikov + Howden + Hajek + 2018 1st + conditional 2019 1st
- Thread starter nevesis
- Start date
Off Sides
Registered User
- Sep 8, 2008
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More the flaw as neither really projects to be a top flight #1 center. Not that it is out of the realm of possibility.
And I agree they are early in the process, just don't want to see them pass up what could be top flight talents because they perceive them as lacking character or some other intangible given that seem to be more what Gorton has been talking about than saying these guys are super talented.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
100% agreed and I hadn't thought of it before, but now that you mention M-A Bergeron I completely see the parallel. I like Pionk much better as a long-term option.
I'm convinced people rate ADA higher based on his draft position and the 2-3 moments of razzle dazzle per game (and perhaps even the off-ice controversy), but as I watch him, I see a guy who continues to make mistake after mistake in his own zone.
A large part of the team's losing this year and next could easily be attributable to watching him give up goals like the one he fed to Minnesota the other game while he works those kinks out. Hopefully he does so successfully, but I can very easily see him winding up a 5/6/7 PP specialist playing sheltered minutes and moving around the league a lot...
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
One of the things some people don't want to hear, and there's some validity to it, is that maybe the return for McD was close to accurate.
At some point, the Rangers decided that McD was not part of their future. There were reasons behind that, and we can speculate, but it wasn't really a mystery.
Teams let us know pretty early on, and pretty consistently, that the Marners, Nylanders and Sergachevs of the world were not on the table. That didn't change.
At least half-a-dozen teams checked-in about McD and decided what he was worth to them.
The final deal was not all that different than deals that were floated around on here.
It is quite possible that maybe it was the inflated value some people assigned to McD that was inaccurate, and not the market, and other GMs, and the Rangers.
It's possible that the same analysis that the Rangers conducted to determine whether McD fit into their future, was very similar to the type of analysis conducted by other teams. Maybe they arrived at somewhat similar conclusions and decided the price was what the market ultimately showed it to be.
The market is/was what it is/was. But it's become pretty clear that the higher price for McD was the outlying opinion and not really the widely accepted one.
At some point, the Rangers decided that McD was not part of their future. There were reasons behind that, and we can speculate, but it wasn't really a mystery.
Teams let us know pretty early on, and pretty consistently, that the Marners, Nylanders and Sergachevs of the world were not on the table. That didn't change.
At least half-a-dozen teams checked-in about McD and decided what he was worth to them.
The final deal was not all that different than deals that were floated around on here.
It is quite possible that maybe it was the inflated value some people assigned to McD that was inaccurate, and not the market, and other GMs, and the Rangers.
It's possible that the same analysis that the Rangers conducted to determine whether McD fit into their future, was very similar to the type of analysis conducted by other teams. Maybe they arrived at somewhat similar conclusions and decided the price was what the market ultimately showed it to be.
The market is/was what it is/was. But it's become pretty clear that the higher price for McD was the outlying opinion and not really the widely accepted one.
LeetchisGod
This is a bad hockey team.
Highly unlikely. The Lightning are stacked from top to bottom. It would take a ridiculous amount of injuries for them not to make the playoffs next year.
Vladislav Namestnikov hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com
Namestnikov is 5'11 but only 180 :/ He's not as scrawny as Zucc (5'7" 180?) but still... he's probably not physical at all (can't blame him). I think about that series against LA where this team got banged around like kids. Maybe I'm just bitter and need more coffee lol
McDonagh from a few years ago would have garnered us a Mikhail Sergachev in this deal, but we traded a very banged up, hurting McDonagh who hasn't played his best in a while and people we're expecting a fleecing of Tampa's best defensive prospect?
We sold a little bit low on him, but it had to happen.
Yzerman used this to his advantage in the negotiation.
We sold a little bit low on him, but it had to happen.
Yzerman used this to his advantage in the negotiation.
NYR Viper
Registered User
There is nothing that states Gorton can't trade Spooner or Namestnikov in the off-season for futures. The teams they were dealing with had those players available so the Rangers took them back. Ryan Hartman just returned a 1st rounder from Nashville. Namestnikov and Spooner are worth something similar.
Yeah Angelo is a 2/3 alright. Two thirds of a defenseman. I know I'm beating a dead horse and I will gladly eat crow if he turns into something but I doubt I will. Makes silly passes, doesn't shoot, and can't play D to save his life. Not my favorite player at all. He's going to have potentially record breaking minus rating if you give him the chance.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
I'd take your bet and triple it because I 100% agree. AV is a goner. They are letting him ride out the season and then AV along with the rest of his staff will be shown the door.
NYR Viper
Registered User
Fast isn't a big guy either and he is fine as far as his physical game. Namestnikov isn't going to kill anyone but he is not soft.
I know there's been a lot of debate about 'the big trade' and the deadline in general. After sleeping on it, here is where I am with it:
1) At the end of the day the Rangers lost a total of 5 players. 4 of which were in the lineup consistently.
2) What they got back in return was opportunity to start over and get better. This is now on the scouts and coaching staff.
3) It's not as if they traded away a Malkin and Crosby or a Toews/Kane. What they had in place was not working.
4) McDonagh has not been the same player since he became captain. He seems slower and makes a lot of mistakes. Perhaps too many nagging injuries. He was a very good player but I don't think losing him is an "Oh my God, now what are we gonna do" moment.
5) We got the best out of Nash that we could. It's not like he's going to blossom somewhere else. He'll be hitting a lot of posts for Boston and wherever he lands afterwards. A very good 2-way player but that's not why we traded for him in the first place. We haven't had a true sniper in years (Gaborik?).
6) The Rangers probably saw the best that Grabner has to offer. Still very effective. Lots of EN goals. Great on the PK. It's not a tragic loss, though.
7) Miller needed a change of scenery. I consider him for Namestnikov a wash. Miller was too inconsistent. Some days he played up to his potential and other nights he was completely invisible. Plus, he gave the puck away SO much. He seemed overly frustrated. I think he'll do well in TB.
What the Rangers lack are IMPACT players. If you were the opposing team, who would you be afraid of from the Rangers? No one. There's no, "We need to keep an eye on that McDavid kid" type of player. We have a lot of role players. But without the money players the role players are expected to do more than they are capable of. We just lack talent. When we cross the blue line we don't know what to do with the puck but dump it because there's no skill to actually make a move, control, pass, and find the back of the net. We need these types of players... at least a few.
That is all. Would love to hear feedback (good or bad).
1) At the end of the day the Rangers lost a total of 5 players. 4 of which were in the lineup consistently.
2) What they got back in return was opportunity to start over and get better. This is now on the scouts and coaching staff.
3) It's not as if they traded away a Malkin and Crosby or a Toews/Kane. What they had in place was not working.
4) McDonagh has not been the same player since he became captain. He seems slower and makes a lot of mistakes. Perhaps too many nagging injuries. He was a very good player but I don't think losing him is an "Oh my God, now what are we gonna do" moment.
5) We got the best out of Nash that we could. It's not like he's going to blossom somewhere else. He'll be hitting a lot of posts for Boston and wherever he lands afterwards. A very good 2-way player but that's not why we traded for him in the first place. We haven't had a true sniper in years (Gaborik?).
6) The Rangers probably saw the best that Grabner has to offer. Still very effective. Lots of EN goals. Great on the PK. It's not a tragic loss, though.
7) Miller needed a change of scenery. I consider him for Namestnikov a wash. Miller was too inconsistent. Some days he played up to his potential and other nights he was completely invisible. Plus, he gave the puck away SO much. He seemed overly frustrated. I think he'll do well in TB.
What the Rangers lack are IMPACT players. If you were the opposing team, who would you be afraid of from the Rangers? No one. There's no, "We need to keep an eye on that McDavid kid" type of player. We have a lot of role players. But without the money players the role players are expected to do more than they are capable of. We just lack talent. When we cross the blue line we don't know what to do with the puck but dump it because there's no skill to actually make a move, control, pass, and find the back of the net. We need these types of players... at least a few.
That is all. Would love to hear feedback (good or bad).
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I guess I wouldn't consider that a flaw so much as just being the way it is.
While two of our goals as we move forward will be to add a #1 defenseman and #1 center, that doesn't necessarily mean we don't make any moves until we are in a position to land one.
I'm really not too worried about the Rangers passing on top flight guys because they lack character or intangibles. I think we're in a different place now. It's a bit easier to take chances and roll the dice when the cupboard is being restocked, you start to feel comfortable with what you have, and you have the picks to keep adding to your supply.
I think that's one of the reasons Clark has always been pushing for more picks to play with. I think he would love to have a balance. Now we see if they can find the right mix.
Beacon
Embrace the tank
- May 28, 2007
- 13,676
- 1,454
This is why it is crucial to keep tanking hard. I'd rather get Bo/Hughes than Dob/Bouchard, plus it would be a hell of a lot easier to give someone Zucc for Dobson/Bouchard than it would be for Bo/Hughes. I can see a team giving away an 8-10 pick for Zucc, I really can't see someone doing it for a 5-6 pick, at least not in a strong draft like this one.
Oh ok good point! Hopefully he puts up some good numbers to make up for Miller's loss.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Namestnikov has some jam to his game. He's not a cannonball out there, but he's not a wallflower either.
NYR Viper
Registered User
The Rangers have A LOT of defnesemen in the organization as of now. It would seem Skjei, ADA, Pionk and possibly Gilmour/O'Gara seem like NHL defensmen at varying depth points. They added Hajek, Rykov and Lindgren to that group. Howden was the only forward prospect they received. Interesting.
NYR Viper
Registered User
I would say he is similar to Lindberg was when he was in NY. That's the style he plays as far as how physical he is
GregSirico
KakkoSZN
broadwayblue
Registered User
Agreed. But outside of picking in the top 3 it is hard to acquire home grown impact players. The alternative is spending crazy money on 27 year old UFAs, if they even become available. Unless we either get lucky in the draft lottery or really stink it up for a couple years we are likely to end up right back where we started.
GregSirico
KakkoSZN
I think the fact that Mac has all those miles on him is why Sergachev was not included. It's that simple. Probably the same reason they weren't trading Sergachev for Karlsson either (he has miles and he's been injured a lot)
Beacon
Embrace the tank
- May 28, 2007
- 13,676
- 1,454
Get paid (with late first round picks or equivalent prospects) to take on a bunch of bad contracts like Spezza. Nash, McDonagh, Holden, Grabs, Pavelec clear $17 off the cap. Almost $1 wasted on Beleskey. Trade Zucc and we added almost $20 in cap space. You can take on 3-4 bad contracts (up to 2 more years on term), adding veteran leadership, warm bodies and significantly expanding our farm.
