Martin Brodeur vs Dominik Hasek, who would you draft

  • PLEASE check any bookmark on all devices. IF you see a link pointing to mandatory.com DELETE it Please use this URL https://forums.hfboards.com/

Who do you draft for a whole career?

  • Martin Brodeur

    Votes: 68 19.2%
  • Dominik Hasek

    Votes: 287 80.8%

  • Total voters
    355
Status
Not open for further replies.

SillyRabbit

Trix Are For Kids
Jan 3, 2006
8,666
8,515
I'm not going to make the case for Brodeur because Hasek was the best player in the world at his peak, but I do think there's a decent amount of merit to having one of the best goaltenders for a much longer period of time than the best goaltender.
 

dgibb10

Registered User
Feb 29, 2024
2,538
2,216
I'm not going to make the case for Brodeur because Hasek was the best player in the world at his peak, but I do think there's a decent amount of merit to having one of the best goaltenders for a much longer period of time than the best goaltender.
Hasek for 500 games (in buffalo). Then you have to muster up a replacement for the other 750 worth to match what Brodeur provided for NJD
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
80,563
57,561
Dominik Hasek as we know him is the more transcendent athlete, superior goalie, but what's the downside in mistakenly taking Brodeur? 3 Stanley Cups, 5 trips to the finals, 1200 games played, most shutouts in history by 25% and all you're doing is taking a haircut on total Vezina wins, no Hart Trophy season?

Brodeur's career was boring and efficient in comparison to Hasek, but it's all-time, blue chip, safe and you can't go wrong with picking him. I've come to believe that longevity and greatness can often look monotonous.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Video Nasty

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
80,563
57,561
hasek played 1088 games of professional hockey over 31 years. the overwhelming majority of those were nhl games, and the only reason it wasn't more is for reasons beyond his control. he actually had a longer career overall than brodeur

I'm not a super Brodeur guy, but the guy played 70+ games in 12x separate seasons and also went on deep playoff runs on a regular basis, playing over 200 playoff games total for 1400+ career games. That's a lot of mileage in fewer years than Hasek, and it was NHL mileage.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BraveCanadian

AlwaysSunnyInDetroit

Registered User
Oct 1, 2021
675
959
hasek played over 130 playoff games and 80 international games for a total of 1300 games. i'm just pushing back on this notion that longevity is some massive advantage in brodeur's favor. brodeur played 22 seasons in the nhl to hasek's 16 despite not reaching north america until he was 25

if hasek was born in canada we wouldn't be having this conversation
 

tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
85,973
141,536
Bojangles Parking Lot
Hasek's 1st year coming over to the NHL was 1990-91, he was 26.

That same year, 1990-91, Belfour was still a rookie, he was 25. He was younger than hasek and THAT was the year he won the vezina. But going into that year, he was not an established NHL goalie.

He was not locked in as a starter at that point.

Ah ok, I didn’t see where we jumped back to 1991. My mistake.

In that case it’s pretty straightforward. Hasek was not Belfour’s backup for any meaningful amount of time that year, Jacques Cloutier was. Instead of riding the pine in Chicago, where Belfour played almost the entire schedule, Hasek was given the starter’s crease in Indianapolis where he put up the best numbers in the IHL by a large margin (Guy Hebert being a distant 2nd, which gives us something resembling an NHL benchmark). Almost all of Hasek’s NHL playing time came at the end of the regular season, on an injury call-up.

Why send Hasek to the IHL and keep Belfour in the NHL in the first place? Pretty easy to understand — the Blackhawks wanted to take it slow with him, as he would have to deal with the learning curve of North American hockey, smaller rinks, a new language, culture shock, and so forth. Meanwhile Belfour had played the prior year for Team Canada and was a very well known commodity. And of course, Belfour proceeded to put up an all-time great season while needing almost no backing up. There was never a question of Hasek replacing him. The plan from the very beginning was to put Belfour in the spotlight and take their time developing Hasek and Waite, while using veterans as the NHL-level backups. Notably, the veterans Cloutier and Greg Millen were both gone from Chicago by the summer as the Hawks realized they had too many NHL-quality goalies.

To underscore that last point, it was well understood at the time that Hasek was destined to be not just a future starter, but a very good one at that. He validated that belief at every step, as the clear-cut best goalie in Europe, then the clear-cut best goalie in the IHL, then being the only NHL goalie with more than one GP who posted better numbers than Belfour. Given the plan that the Hawks had laid out for him, he literally could not have done anything more than what he did to prove himself. Very similar story to Tim Thomas a couple of decades later.
 

Caps8112

Registered User
Sponsor
Aug 12, 2008
3,520
1,980
Belfour had 20 games of experience and had spent the entire previous year in the minors. He wasn't some locked in starter with years under his belt like the Saros/Askarov situation.

We had a 26 year old rookie and a 25 year old rookie. And the 25 year old rookie became the starter, and the 26 year old rookie did not
think there was more to it then that. I dont remember the video from 15 20 years ago about goalies (VHS)😆 but it goes into brief detail that Haseks unorthidox style was not widely accepted by scouts and others. Mike keenan wasnt going to play him and preferred Belfour. NHL was like all the other sports back then in that they didnt like change. Hasek was different then almost anything they had seen.
 

dgibb10

Registered User
Feb 29, 2024
2,538
2,216
hasek played over 130 playoff games and 80 international games for a total of 1300 games. i'm just pushing back on this notion that longevity is some massive advantage in brodeur's favor. brodeur played 22 seasons in the nhl to hasek's 16 despite not reaching north america until he was 25

if hasek was born in canada we wouldn't be having this conversation
130 playoff+80 international+735 regular season=1300 total?
 

Hockey Know it all

Registered User
Mar 10, 2019
482
350
I am someone who truthfully never thought Brodeur was all that good. Yes, he holds the wins title and blah blah blah. But something about him just never screamed “ best goalie of all time”
 
  • Like
Reactions: I am not exposed

sabremike

#1 Tageaholic
Aug 30, 2010
23,726
36,337
Brewster, NY
Ah ok, I didn’t see where we jumped back to 1991. My mistake.

In that case it’s pretty straightforward. Hasek was not Belfour’s backup for any meaningful amount of time that year, Jacques Cloutier was. Instead of riding the pine in Chicago, where Belfour played almost the entire schedule, Hasek was given the starter’s crease in Indianapolis where he put up the best numbers in the IHL by a large margin (Guy Hebert being a distant 2nd, which gives us something resembling an NHL benchmark). Almost all of Hasek’s NHL playing time came at the end of the regular season, on an injury call-up.

Why send Hasek to the IHL and keep Belfour in the NHL in the first place? Pretty easy to understand — the Blackhawks wanted to take it slow with him, as he would have to deal with the learning curve of North American hockey, smaller rinks, a new language, culture shock, and so forth. Meanwhile Belfour had played the prior year for Team Canada and was a very well known commodity. And of course, Belfour proceeded to put up an all-time great season while needing almost no backing up. There was never a question of Hasek replacing him. The plan from the very beginning was to put Belfour in the spotlight and take their time developing Hasek and Waite, while using veterans as the NHL-level backups. Notably, the veterans Cloutier and Greg Millen were both gone from Chicago by the summer as the Hawks realized they had too many NHL-quality goalies.

To underscore that last point, it was well understood at the time that Hasek was destined to be not just a future starter, but a very good one at that. He validated that belief at every step, as the clear-cut best goalie in Europe, then the clear-cut best goalie in the IHL, then being the only NHL goalie with more than one GP who posted better numbers than Belfour. Given the plan that the Hawks had laid out for him, he literally could not have done anything more than what he did to prove himself. Very similar story to Tim Thomas a couple of decades later.
One of the most mindblowing forgotten things ever is that the Sabres actually left Hasek exposed in (IIRC) the 93 expansion draft.
 

FerrisRox

"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
Sep 17, 2003
20,691
13,849
Toronto, Ontario
I'm amazed that Brodeur has so many more votes, and even more confused that several of the people selecting Brodeur cite "longevity" as the reason for the choice, despite the fact that Hasek had a longer career and played at a much higher level in his last seasons.

People seem to misunderstand the question. The question was who would you draft, and if you drafted Hasek today, you wouldn't be waiting several years for him to come over to North America.

Hasek was drafted in 1983, but didn't suit up in the NHL until 1990. He turned pro, in Europe, at age 16, won a league championship in 1987, played in the 1988 Winter Olympics, won another league championship in 1989, and then made his NHL debut in 1990.

Before he ever suited up for the Blackhawks, he had already played ten seasons of professional hockey, and then played 16 NHL seasons, and then played two more years of pro hockey after he left the NHL.

It's impossibly stupid that people are selection Brodeur based on "longevity" when Hasek played an astounding 28 seasons of professional hockey.
 

banks

Only got 3 of 16.
Aug 29, 2019
3,684
5,375
Hasek. Even if someone could prove that Brodeur provided more value and a longer more consistent career, which I don't think anyone could prove, I'd still take Hasek just for the wow factor. Hasek would bring in fans and media attention like crazy today.
 

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
41,651
18,210
Mulberry Street
A) broduer was 19 years old
B) the important part.

Broduer then proceeded to win 686 more games for the team that drafted him
Hasek then proceeded to win 0 more games for the team that drafted him

I don't understand why you think this is something that should be held against Hasek.

He wasn't traded because he sucked. He was traded by the team who drafted him because they already had one of the best goalies in the league playing for them. If NJ had Roy or Belfour in net at the time, do they keep Brodeur long term? Probably not.

Surely broduer didn't win multiple vezinas after Stevens and Neidermeyer left

He won multiple Vezinas after Roy retired and when Hasek's prime was over.
 
  • Like
Reactions: blundluntman

dgibb10

Registered User
Feb 29, 2024
2,538
2,216
I don't understand why you think this is something that should be held against Hasek.

He wasn't traded because he sucked. He was traded by the team who drafted him because they already had one of the best goalies in the league playing for them. If NJ had Roy or Belfour in net at the time, do they keep Brodeur long term? Probably not.
Broduer would have been the starter for 5 years by the time Belfour made his Debut if he was drafted in 1983.

Belfour had his rookie season the same year Hasek came over. Hasek was 26 at the time. By age 26 Broduer he was coming off back to back jennings trophies.


Hasek forced his way out of buffalo too. He played 500 games for them, the most he played for any team.

Broduer provided 1260 games for his team.
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

Registered User
Oct 13, 2011
9,910
4,149
Colorado
I am someone who truthfully never thought Brodeur was all that good. Yes, he holds the wins title and blah blah blah. But something about him just never screamed “ best goalie of all time”

To cross sports from that era, Brodeur was the Emmitt Smith of NHL goaltenders. He was a very good player played on a very competitive team, with very good teammates, and had a lot of team success as a result.

Hasek, on the other hand, was more like Barry Sanders. He could do things that no one else in the league could even dream of but was stuck on a mostly mediocre/bad teams with lackluster teammates so the team only went as far as he could drag them.
 

dgibb10

Registered User
Feb 29, 2024
2,538
2,216
To cross sports from that era, Brodeur was the Emmitt Smith of NHL goaltenders. He was a very good player played on a very competitive team, with very good teammates, and had a lot of team success as a result.

Hasek, on the other hand, was more like Barry Sanders. He could do things that no one else in the league could even dream of but was stuck on a mostly mediocre/bad teams with lackluster teammates so the team only went as far as he could drag them.
Only one of the goalies needed 9 other hall of famers to win a stanley cup and it wasn't brodeur.
 

ManofSteel55

Registered User
Aug 15, 2013
33,392
13,858
Sylvan Lake, Alberta
Hasek is the better goalie but Brodeur gives you 20+ years of 70+ games played. He also constantly took less money so his team could afford better players, Having over 20 years of cost controlled elite goaltending is too good to pass up.

People get hung up on the Devils playing "the trap" and played with 2 HoF defensemen but they tend to forget that Marty won almost all of his individual awards after Stevens, Niedermayer and Daneyko had retired or moved on.

But this place would likely vote Curtis Joseph over Brodeur so he has no chance of beating Dom.
The gap between Cujo and Brodeur is probably similar to the gap between Hasek and Brodeur. Hasek is the greatest goalie of all time, hands down. Marty is top 10. Cujo is lower on the list, where there isn't as much separation between players. The biggest difference was that Brodeur played on contenders, and Cujo didn't, until later in his career when he went to Detroit, but he was starting to age out by then.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Voight
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad