Martin Brodeur vs Dominik Hasek, who would you draft

[McVespa99]

The Dominator

 

[Xirik]

Any Defenseman would vote Brodeur simply because he was able to save a lot of defenseman from being slammed in the boards after collecting the puck.

 

[dgibb10]

It's weird how the Blackhawks coaching staff didn't realize that Belfour was 3 months younger than Hasek and made the starting spot a true open competition.

But hey, maybe they did, and the fact that Belfour got the starting position was completely unrelated to the team's history with Belfour and that Hasek had just come over from Europe. Can't really blame them too much, given that Belfour won 2 Vezina trophies in 3 years after he joined the team full time.

Belfour had 20 games of experience and had spent the entire previous year in the minors. He wasn't some locked in starter with years under his belt like the Saros/Askarov situation.

We had a 26 year old rookie and a 25 year old rookie. And the 25 year old rookie became the starter, and the 26 year old rookie did not

 

[HabzSauce]

Brodeur is my all time favorite goalie

Same and I have him #2 overall best goalie only behind Hasek.

Brodeur is underrated. Doesn't get enough respek

 

[Copenhagen91]

So you would take Marleau over Lemieux and Larry Murphy over Orr.

What…..? Comparing 2 of the top 3 goalies of all time to each other vs 2 of the top 3 players of all time to guys who played more games but couldn’t sniff being anywhere close to Lemieux or Orr…. What a terrible comparison


I’d take Hasek, his peak was insane

 

[HabzSauce]

Longevity records, but it's just crazy that he was elite for all that time.

The thread is about being a GM. Brodeur is what every GM dreams of if they could pick a goalie. Stability is so critically important, especially at an elite level. I'd say also a lot of Brodeur's value was even not measured in that he was one of the best puck movers of all time. They changed NHL rules with that trapezoid because of him. That impact is underrated when it comes to a GM building the team and the flexibility it gives. Brodeur was a lot more than just a stable goalie. (Although if you are a GM you want stability in net)

Well said. Brodeur was also mentally dialed in too. He could face 40 shots or 10 shots - didn't matter, he'd play well regardless.

 

[Romang67]

Belfour had 20 games of experience and had spent the entire previous year in the minors. He wasn't some locked in starter with years under his belt like the Saros/Askarov situation.

We had a 26 year old rookie and a 25 year old rookie. And the 25 year old rookie became the starter, and the 26 year old rookie did not

Why are you pretending that their ages should have played a role?

Belfour was born in April 1965.
Hasek was born in January 1965.

Belfour was established with the organization and came off a playoff run where he was the best performing goalie. Hasek had just come over from Europe. If you don't think that played a role, then I still dont see why you think the fact that Hasek wasn't starting over the Vezina winner means he wouldn't have been capable of being an elite goalie at age 26.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I don't know where this idea comes from that Hasek was incapable of being elite before 1994.

He was already starting goaltender for Czechoslovakia at the 1984 Canada Cup at age 19. He was the best European goalie in the world by 1987.

Hasek had already built up a reputation as elite before even joining the NHL. Second or third best European goalie ever before the iron curtain fell.

From first elite game until last is 24 years.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Brodeur
If I'm running a team I like the more conventionally great goalie with more longevity who is great right away, and that puck moving ability has a measurable impact on the transitions.

I wonder if a goalie like Hasek would always take a long time to get great. Basically the drafting team was always going to struggle with him because of the unconventional style

But I do like Hasek more, as a fan

Brodeur didn’t really have more longevity (both he and Hasek played in the NHL into their early 40s), he just had less Iron Curtain stopping him from playing in the NHL in his 20s.

 

[dgibb10]

Brodeur didn’t really have more longevity (both he and Hasek played in the NHL into their early 40s), he just had less Iron Curtain stopping him from playing in the NHL in his 20s.

He'd also play 75 games a year instead of 60

 

[tsujimoto74]

He'd also play 75 games a year instead of 60

I’d rather have the GOAT for 60 games than anyone else for a few more.

 

[Connor McConnor]

I’d go Brodeur. Played longer and played more games per season and plays a game more suited to modern hockey that doesn’t rely on pure athleticism.

Most of the best goalies in the league are not "modern" and are moreso athletic. AKA the Russians.

 

[dgibb10]

I’d rather have the GOAT for 60 games than anyone else for a few more.

I'd rather have the goat for the 1259 games he played

 

[blundluntman]

The team who drafted Hasek got 25 games of sub 0.900 goaltending from him.
The team who drafted Broduer got 20 years of excellence

You choose hasek over broduer as a GM and you probably end up fired before hasek even makes the NHL

He was backing up Belfour who won 2 vezinas in the early 90s and was the 2nd/3rd best goalie for a decade and a half afterwards. No matter who you draft, you're getting fired bc you already have your starting goalie.

 

[dgibb10]

He was backing up Belfour who won 2 vezinas in the early 90s and was the 2nd/3rd best goalie for a decade and a half afterwards. No matter who you draft, you're getting fired bc you already have your starting goalie.

Belfour was signed by the blackhawks as a college free agent 4 years after Hasek was drafted.

He was backing up belfour who was a rookie, and younger than Hasek*

 

[blundluntman]

Belfour was signed by the blackhawks as a college free agent 4 years after Hasek was drafted.

He was backing up belfour who was a rookie, and younger than Hasek*

The result would've been the same if you'd drafted Brodeur so it doesn't make any difference. Belfour isn't losing his starting job to either player in the early 90s. And if you have an elite backup goalie with trade value on a strong team that could be a contender, you're trading them for assets regardless. Hasek didn't lose a starting job to some bum. Ignoring what he did in the 90s just to nitpick some useless "he got traded by the team that drafted him" is ridiculous to say the least.

 

[dgibb10]

The result would've been the same if you'd drafted Brodeur so it doesn't make any difference. Belfour isn't losing his starting job to either player in the early 90s. And if you have an elite backup goalie with trade value on a strong team that could be a contender, you're trading them for assets regardless. Hasek didn't lose a starting job to some bum. Ignoring what he did in the 90s just to nitpick some useless "he got traded by the team that drafted him" is ridiculous to say the least.

If you'd drafted brodeur he'd have been the starter long before belfour made the league. Belfour never would have touched the starting job. Again, belfour took over his first year when hasek was age 26 (his first year in the NHL). Broduer already had 160 wins under his belt and back to back jennings trophies by that point.

Also they traded Hasek for virtually nothing

Ignoring the fact that broduer provided 1260 games of elite goaltending for his team while Hasek didn't provide more than 500 for any team he ever played on is wild

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I do think Brodeur gets underrated. The guy was a horse and very good for a long time.

Still though, this is a pretty easy decision for me to take Hasek.

 

[blundluntman]

If you'd drafted brodeur he'd have been the starter long before belfour made the league. Belfour never would have touched the starting job. Again, belfour took over his first year when hasek was age 26 (his first year in the NHL). Broduer already had 160 wins under his belt and back to back jennings trophies by that point.

Also they traded Hasek for virtually nothing

Ignoring the fact that broduer provided 1260 games of elite goaltending for his team while Hasek didn't provide more than 500 for any team he ever played on is wild

If the Iron Curtain (which is a global barrier btw, not some home decor product) didn't exist, the same would be true for Hasek. You're making it sound like Hasek simply wasn't good enough to play until age 30 which is so obviously untrue that it's degrading to even say out loud. Do you think Putin would wake up one day and decide to ressurect the Soviet Union in 2024 just to keep Hasek out of the NHL if a GM decided to draft him?

 

[dgibb10]

If the Iron Curtain (which is a global barrier btw, not some home decor product) didn't exist, the same would be true for Hasek. You're making it sound like Hasek simply wasn't good enough to play until age 30 which is so obviously untrue that it's degrading to even say out loud. Do you think Putin would wake up one day and decide to ressurect the Soviet Union in 2024 just to keep Hasek out of the NHL if a GM decided to draft him?

Giving hasek more credit for not becoming a starter until age 29 than you give broduer for ACTUALLY being an elite NHL goaltender at age 21 is wild

 

[kcunac]

I never saw Brodeur as being particularly sensational. Part of that is because he wasn’t that athletic and part is he didn’t have to be. The Devils limited high danger chances and Brodeur was excellent positionally. Probably the best goalie-system match ever.

Hasek on the other hand was dynamic and could carry teams, as shown by the different teams he carried. I see that the SV% matches the eye test. Is Hasek the best goalie all time? Seems there is a gooos case for it.

 

[dgibb10]

I never saw Brodeur as being particularly sensational. Part of that is because he wasn’t that athletic and part is he didn’t have to be. The Devils limited high danger chances and Brodeur was excellent positionally. Probably the best goalie-system match ever.

Hasek on the other hand was dynamic and could carry teams, as shown by the different teams he carried. I see that the SV% matches the eye test. Is Hasek the best goalie all time? Seems there is a gooos case for it.

Which teams are we saying he carried? the 9 HOFer Red Wings?

Or the sens who were a 100+ point team with Patrick Lalime the year before him and then made the stanley cup finals immediately after he left with Ray Emery?

 

[blundluntman]

Giving hasek more credit for not becoming a starter until age 29 than you give broduer for ACTUALLY being an elite NHL goaltender at age 21 is wild

This is literally a speculative thread, there's obviously going to be some guesswork involved evaluating new circumstances for old players. Most people will admit it's not a certainty that Hasek would hit the ground running at age 20... but you're making it sound like it's a certainty he won't blossom until the age of 30. Seeing what he did from age 29-42 and thinking it's unreasonable to predict he'd be at least serviceable in his 20s (the prime years physically for almost every professional athlete) is a level of reaching I haven't seen since Fantastic 4 came out in 2005.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Belfour had 20 games of experience and had spent the entire previous year in the minors. He wasn't some locked in starter with years under his belt like the Saros/Askarov situation.

We had a 26 year old rookie and a 25 year old rookie. And the 25 year old rookie became the starter, and the 26 year old rookie did not

Hang on a second


Did you confuse Hasek’s 1992 stats with Belfour’s? Because that’s the only way this post makes any sense.

Belfour was most certainly not a rookie at the same time as Hasek. Heading into 1992-93 he was a multi-year starter who had already played 74 games in a season, won the Calder, won the Vezina, been a Hart finalist, and was coming off a Finals run. He was as locked in as a starter could possibly be, as a clear-cut franchise goalie. And then he proceeded to win his second Vezina that year, further cementing that there was absolutely no need for a goalie controversy in Chicago.

If this post was what it looked like, I suggest listening to people who remember these events and forming an educated opinion, rather than trying to whip together an argument off of stat sheets.

 

[dgibb10]

Hang on a second


Did you confuse Hasek’s 1992 stats with Belfour’s? Because that’s the only way this post makes any sense.

Belfour was most certainly not a rookie at the same time as Hasek. Heading into 1992-93 he was a multi-year starter who had already played 74 games in a season, won the Calder, won the Vezina, been a Hart finalist, and was coming off a Finals run. He was as locked in as a starter could possibly be, as a clear-cut franchise goalie. And then he proceeded to win his second Vezina that year, further cementing that there was absolutely no need for a goalie controversy in Chicago.

If this post was what it looked like, I suggest listening to people who remember these events and forming an educated opinion, rather than trying to whip together an argument off of stat sheets.

Hasek's 1st year coming over to the NHL was 1990-91, he was 26.

That same year, 1990-91, Belfour was still a rookie, he was 25. He was younger than hasek and THAT was the year he won the vezina. But going into that year, he was not an established NHL goalie.

He was not locked in as a starter at that point.