Marner's Next Contract

[Dekes For Days]

Only one comparable matters to Marner in my eyes... Kucherov

Kucherov wasn't even a comparable at all. That wasn't a post-ELC contract.

 

[Gary Nylund]

As long as Dubas remains Leafs GM then Marner will continue to convince him, and only him, that his teammate Auston Matthews is the only comparable that matters in terms of contract, just like he did on his current deal.

Lucky break for us then. If his agent was using McDavids imaginary 15 million dollar contract as a starting point for discussions then we'd be in real trouble.

The reality is this...

-The economy is tanking and if management can't see that and factor it in, they are incompetent.
-They did not correctly forecast economic risk prior to 2020 either (would happen CV19 or not)
-McDavid and Marner are in a different stratosphere as players and by that I mean 25-33% less valuable.
-Marner was overpaid to start with, now what is he worth to you? 14million I think you said? Insanity.
-Matthews was not overpaid, he was under termed.
-JT was overpaid
-Nylander was maybe considered overpaid 500k at the time but in hindsight he wasn't overpaid at all.

Marner should essentially be on a wage freeze to go forward with this team. Nylander would get a raise to about 9million at the max and Matthews assuming he has a slight injury and will return to form will get a raise and hopefully the C to complement. JT will be pretty old and cost a lot less next time around.

That's reality but I see of people in these threads trying to narrative build for these players to get large pay raises. If there are working brains at MLSE, that won't happen.

Hard to blame Dubas for not seeing Covid coming.

Everything else here seems on point. Not sure what's going on with Bally's bankruptcy but economic risk is something every GM should be factoring into their thinking at this point. Good luck getting Marner to agree to no raise though, good on him if he agrees but I wouldn't count on it.

We might get to a point where the decision becomes to either overpay the star (or stars), or trade them, or god forbid, keep them as "own rentals". Tough decisions ahead, I don't envy the guy who has to make these decisions.

 

[thewave]

Kucherov wasn't even a comparable at all. That wasn't a post-ELC contract.

LOL, what? I am sorry but you're really reaching here and it's not even worth discussion. Of course he is comparable and of course you ignore everything else you can't defend.

 

[notdoneyet]

As long as Dubas remains Leafs GM then Marner will continue to convince him, and only him, that his teammate Auston Matthews is the only comparable that matters in terms of contract, just like he did on his current deal.

Well in keeping it real
If they give matthews whatever he wants then why should marner take any less. After all marner has all the grounds to compare to matthews. There could actually be a good case that marner is better.

 

[Dekes For Days]

LOL, what? I am sorry but you're really reaching here and it's not even worth discussion. Of course he is comparable and of course you ignore everything else you can't defend.

You can't use something other than post-ELC contracts as comparables for post-ELC contracts. That's not how comparables work.
What exactly do you think was "ignored"? The rest of your post was just continuing on with the attempted improper comparison that I addressed.

 

[ULF_55]

Kucherov wasn't even a comparable at all. That wasn't a post-ELC contract.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

 

[Dekes For Days]

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

Why are you linking me Kucherov's capfriendly page?

 

[ULF_55]

Why are you linking me Kucherov's capfriendly page?

Kucherov wasn't even a comparable at all. That wasn't a post-ELC contract.

Kucherov is on his 3rd. contract.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Kucherov is on his 3rd. contract.

Yes, exactly. That's not a comparable for a post-ELC contract.

 

[ACC1224]

Kucherov is on his 3rd. contract.

Marner and Matthews will use all the top end players, including each other when negotiating the next deal.
Nothing is exempt, it's not how it works.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Nothing is exempt, it's not how it works.

That's, of course, wildly untrue.
Post-ELC contracts are used as comparables for post-ELC contracts.
UFA contracts are used as comparables for UFA contracts.
You can't just randomly mix and match.

 

[ULF_55]

Marner and Matthews will use all the top end players, including each other when negotiating the next deal.
Nothing is exempt, it's not how it works.

Yep, they'll be after their 3rd. contract, just like Kucherov's.

Overpaid, compared to Kucherov, yeah they will be.

Doesn't matter, team will be competitive, likely won't win anything, but will provide entertainment.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Well in keeping it real
If they give matthews whatever he wants then why should marner take any less. After all marner has all the grounds to compare to matthews. There could actually be a good case that marner is better.

Both of them need to step up in the playoffs if they want the big boy money again

 

[ToneDog]

Yep, they'll be after their 3rd. contract, just like Kucherov's.

Overpaid, compared to Kucherov, yeah they will be.

Doesn't matter, team will be competitive, likely won't win anything, but will provide entertainment.

Superstar, with two SC rings on his 3rd contract, earning less than a star who can't get it done in the playoffs on his second deal. LOL.

 

[ULF_55]

That's, of course, wildly untrue.
Post-ELC contracts are used as comparables for post-ELC contracts.
UFA contracts are used as comparables for UFA contracts.
You can't just randomly mix and match.

ELC = Entry Level Contract

Other than their entry level contract, everything is post-ELC.

 

[Dekes For Days]

ELC = Entry Level Contract
Other than their entry level contract, everything is post-ELC.

A post-ELC contract is the one directly following their ELC contract.

 

[ToneDog]

Both of them need to step up in the playoffs if they want the big boy money again

Marner is going to tear up, say he wants to be a Leaf forever and then proceed to take the GMs lunch money. Can't wait. Then again, at that point, it might be time to make cap space for McDavid. He is the only true superstar than can end the curse Frank Mahovolich put on this organization.

 

[ACC1224]

Yep, they'll be after their 3rd. contract, just like Kucherov's.

Overpaid, compared to Kucherov, yeah they will be.

Doesn't matter, team will be competitive, likely won't win anything, but will provide entertainment.

For high end players, which contract they are on is irrelevant.
If their agent wants to compare his client to another player the team can try and argue differences in play but they won't say, 'oh, that doesn't count this is only his second contract". He'd get laughed out of the room.

 

[ULF_55]

A post-ELC contract is the one directly following their ELC contract.

Every contract after the ELC is after the ELC.

Post means: after, later, or subsequent.

 

[ACC1224]

Marner is going to tear up, say he wants to be a Leaf forever and then proceed to take the GMs lunch money. Can't wait. Then again, at that point, it might be time to make cap space for McDavid. He is the only true superstar than can end the curse Frank Mahovolich put on this organization.

I've never heard any follow up but is Dubas still the #1 GM for Agents to deal with?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

That's, of course, wildly untrue.
Post-ELC contracts are used as comparables for post-ELC contracts.
UFA contracts are used as comparables for UFA contracts.
You can't just randomly mix and match.

Kucherov's contract includes SEVEN very very very valuable prime ufa years. Marner's includes 2. And it's STILL lower aav than Marner's post elc. Unbelievable really.

And regarding McDavid and all that... I love that if a player signs a team-friendly contract, it "doesn't count" as a leaf comparable... yet if a rival gm gives out a very player friendly contract, it's the new benchmark for leaf contracts. Literally insane mental gymnastics.

And Dekes, given that Marner (since his post elc contract began) has almost identical a1/60 a/60 and p/60 as McDavid, why isn't ufa Marner worth 15 mil like rfa McDavid was?

 

[ULF_55]

For high end players, which contract they are on is irrelevant.
If their agent wants to compare his client to another player the team can try and argue differences in play but they won't say, 'oh, that doesn't count this is only his second contract". He'd get laughed out of the room.

Yeah, every contract after the ELC is independent. UFA's can usually get more because they can shop around.

 

[Dekes For Days]

For high end players, which contract they are on is irrelevant.

The contract a player is on is always relevant when trying to use it as a comparable, for any quality of player.
Post-ELC contracts and only post-ELC contracts are comparables for post-ELC contracts.
UFA contracts and only UFA contracts are comparables for UFA contracts.
Amazing that some stuff refuse to accept this basic, undeniable fact.

Every contract after the ELC is after the ELC.
Post means: after, later, or subsequent.

In hockey terminology, the post-ELC contract is the contract that comes directly after the ELC contract.
If it's confusing for you, you're welcome to refer to them as 2nd contracts instead.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I think younger Dubas is current Dubas's worst enemy.

The Matthews and Marner contracts are amongst his worst work as our GM

He's gotten pretty good since then, I am hoping their extensions are a lot more friendly.

Well, we should know if Matthews and Nylander are part of the problem or part of the solution as soon as July 1st.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Tedious.

Here's something with entertainment value: