Player Discussion Marner

[stickty111]

Personally I think Berube would want the puck to cross the line on Marner's shots and not hit the goalie's logo, but maybe I'm clueless and don't understand the brilliance of Marner.

 

[666]

If this is what you think I said, then you're having severe reading comprehension issues.

You can tell when someone is suffering from cognitive dissonance. When confronted with facts, first they try to explain them away and when that doesn't work they just shut down. What's really funny is that people will watch Nylander play and think that he's good defensively. It's fascinating to see people actually think that Nylander plays well defensively when they can watch Marner show them how it's done. What could possibly go through their heads when Nylander causes another goal against and right after it Marner prevents one? All in all it's pretty funny and definitely weird.

 

[stickty111]

100% this. Last season, Matthews got 512 Selke votes and Marner got 23. I'll bet that came as a shock to a few people here but that's what happened.

To be clear, that's not at all a knock on Marner, IMO he's a very good defensive player. But talk of him winning a Selke, that's just people getting carried away for no good reason. JMHO.

Berube also used Marner on the 2nd unit PK. Odd for someone talked about as an elite defensive player. Maybe Berube doesn't agree?

 

[Gary Nylund]

When's the last time Marner was a regular linemate of JT's anyway?

JT"s game has sunk quite a bit these last couple years, he's getting slower and slower. So if Marner's sample size was more in the time when JT was a better player - then it's naturally going to look a bit better. On top of all of that too I do think Marner has better chemistry with JT. Marner's better at playing a slower more east-west game and it meshes good with JT.

There's a lot of points here that are being blatantly ommitted, and it's not resulting in any sort of honest discussion.

I had this thought as well but was too lazy to type it out. Agree with this entire post.

You can usually make stats show whatever you want them to and that's what these discussion turn out to be all too often, people using them to support an agenda as opposed to honest debate. I watch almost every game and I don't need stats to tell me the obvious - Marner has his strengths and weaknesses like any other player but in the end, he's a regular season superstar who isn't nearly as effective in the playoffs.

Berube also used Marner on the 2nd unit PK. Odd for someone talked about as an elite defensive player. Maybe Berube doesn't agree?

I didn't notice, that's interesting. Also a bit weird as I've always thought of Marner as an excellent penalty killer, I wonder what Berube's reasoning is.

 

[666]

A winger's defensive game is not the make or break for a team's defense. They have the least defensive responsibility by far. And maybe he produces that much on the PP cause he's actually good at it? What were we in the postseason, 1/23 or something? Sounds like more PP production is what's needed.

Really sounds like you're going all in on this agenda though so I won't get in your way.

Wow. The mental gymnastics that you guys will go though is fascinating. If you'd rather have a one-dimensional, soft perimeter player, who causes as many goals as he gets than a two way superstar then I guess your agenda couldn't be clearer. But you keep on practising those gymnastics.

 

[IPS]

Wow. The mental gymnastics that you guys will go though is fascinating. If you'd rather have a one-dimensional, soft perimeter player, who causes as many goals as he gets than a two way superstar then I guess your agenda couldn't be clearer. But you keep on practising those gymnastics.

Lol how many wingers are winning the Selke nowadays? They never win it cause they simply don't have enough defensive responsibility to justify it over a center.

A winger "causing" as many goals as he scores - you're literally framing it as if every GA Nylander is on the ice for is his fault and you're trying to tell everyone else they have an agenda?

There's only one guy here who's ever personally attacked other posters over their criticism/opinions of players and that's you btw. That is what reeks of an agenda to me.

 

[IPS]

You can usually make stats show whatever you want them to and that's what these discussion turn out to be all too often, people using them to support an agenda as opposed to honest debate. I watch almost every game and I don't need stats to tell me the obvious - Marner has his strengths and weaknesses like any other player but in the end, he's a regular season superstar who isn't nearly as effective in the playoffs.

Yeah and then diminishing Nylander's production by bringing up PP points and pretending that our PP wasn't 1/23 in the playoffs with Marner being the only healthy guy of the big 3.

It's always the same story with this poster. He projects his dishonesty and hypocrisy on other posters and personally attacks them when they don't buy his BS.

 

[666]

Lol how many wingers are winning the Selke nowadays? They never win it cause they simply don't have enough defensive responsibility to justify it over a center.

A winger "causing" as many goals as he scores - you're literally framing it as if every GA Nylander is on the ice for is his fault and you're trying to tell everyone else they have an agenda?

There's only one guy here who's ever personally attacked other posters over their criticism/opinions of players and that's you btw. That is what reeks of an agenda to me.

And there you go. That's the cognitive dissonance I'm talking about. To justify being confronted with facts that break your brain, instead of acknowledging that Nylander is pretty bad you instead somehow fabricate a fake reality that wingers don't need to play defence by pointing to a trophy that only one player wins. C'mon, you have to see how funny this is. Or maybe disturbing? You have two guys playing right after each other. One guy does it all and the other guy is a defensive mess and yet you don't see it? What's it like watching the games for you? Does it bother you when Marner makes a brilliant play? How do you deal with it?

 

[IPS]

And there you go. That's the cognitive dissonance I'm talking about. To justify being confronted with facts that break your brain, instead of acknowledging that Nylander is pretty bad you instead somehow fabricate a fake reality that wingers don't need to play defence by pointing to a trophy that only one player wins. C'mon, you have to see how funny this is. Or maybe disturbing? You have two guys playing right after each other. One guy does it all and the other guy is a defensive mess and yet you don't see it? What's it like watching the games for you? Does it bother you when Marner makes a brilliant play? How do you deal with it?

Do ever address the points at hand or just go into some weird tangent?

-Never said wingers don't need to play defense
-never even said that I think Nylander's better/equal to Marner defensively (I think Marner's better, without much debate

And yeah as soon as Marner gets a point I just flip the game off, can't stand it, enrages me.

 

[666]

-never even said that I think Nylander's better/equal to Marner defensively (I think Marner's better, without much debate

Good to hear it. You're making progress.

 

[stickty111]

I had this thought as well but was too lazy to type it out. Agree with this entire post.

You can usually make stats show whatever you want them to and that's what these discussion turn out to be all too often, people using them to support an agenda as opposed to honest debate. I watch almost every game and I don't need stats to tell me the obvious - Marner has his strengths and weaknesses like any other player but in the end, he's a regular season superstar who isn't nearly as effective in the playoffs.


I didn't notice, that's interesting. Also a bit weird as I've always thought of Marner as an excellent penalty killer, I wonder what Berube's reasoning is.

Hopefully it's to lower his PK minutes which I have been calling for. He's a good PKer but a tad overrated

 

[Gary Nylund]

Hopefully it's to lower his PK minutes which I have been calling for. He's a good PKer but a tad overrated

Yeah that makes some sense. And I would like to see everyone's minutes limited so that everyone's well rested for the playoffs. And boy did our PK ever suck last season, just one of many things that we need to be better at.

 

[mapleleaf979]

I had this thought as well but was too lazy to type it out. Agree with this entire post.

You can usually make stats show whatever you want them to and that's what these discussion turn out to be all too often, people using them to support an agenda as opposed to honest debate. I watch almost every game and I don't need stats to tell me the obvious - Marner has his strengths and weaknesses like any other player but in the end, he's a regular season superstar who isn't nearly as effective in the playoffs.


I didn't notice, that's interesting. Also a bit weird as I've always thought of Marner as an excellent penalty killer, I wonder what Berube's reasoning is.

Marner is already playing PP1, 1st line on 5 v5, so playing PK1 with that is a bit much, although he plays some good hard mins on the PK. I dont think Mcdavid or Mckinnon play PK1 or anyone else in the NHL on a regular basis.

 

[Hugh Mongusbig]

Marner is already playing PP1, 1st line on 5 v5, so playing PK1 with that is a bit much, although he plays some good hard mins on the PK. I dont think Mcdavid or Mckinnon play PK1 or anyone else in the NHL on a regular basis.

Right. Marner led all forwards in TOI last night. It's not like Berube is cutting back his playing time at all. If Berube didn't like what he was seeing, he wouldn't be leading the forwards in ice time. MM isn't going anywhere. I smell an 8 year extension coming.

 

[IPS]

Good to hear it. You're making progress.

never made progress on anything. You just cant follow along.

 

[Antropovsky]

I didn't say you saw none.

You seem to think everybody is 'Marner's biggest defender'. Of course I'm not ashamed of being correct, or for supporting a player on my team.

You didnt say I saw none? Whats the bolded below mean to you then?
"..you admitted that you hadnt even watched the game you were criticizing".

Very little of that is true. After a dominant win that Marner played well in and put the Leafs up 3-1, you made a bunch of posts criticizing Marner, and I simply noted how weird that was. Not just because Marner had played well, but because you had admitted that you hadn't even watched the game you were criticizing.

 

[Antropovsky]

I had this thought as well but was too lazy to type it out. Agree with this entire post.

You can usually make stats show whatever you want them to and that's what these discussion turn out to be all too often, people using them to support an agenda as opposed to honest debate. I watch almost every game and I don't need stats to tell me the obvious - Marner has his strengths and weaknesses like any other player but in the end, he's a regular season superstar who isn't nearly as effective in the playoffs.


I didn't notice, that's interesting. Also a bit weird as I've always thought of Marner as an excellent penalty killer, I wonder what Berube's reasoning is.

could be numerous answers to this.

Personally I dont think his PKing is all that impressive.

1) Hes just not thay great at PK.He has an active stick and he likes to pick off passes but he doesnt like to block shots or do anything desperate like get in a net scrum/battle for a loose puck. Watching boston series back and you see the Bs square to point shots and looking big. Marner on the other hand gets very skinny and upright for point shots, he looks afraid of being hit. I even saw him covering his face with a glove on one shot.

2) Allow lower end players to feel more part of the team. Give them more mins. Give them something to own. Instead of playing Marner on 1st line, occasional double shift on a stacked line, play on #1 pp, #1 PK, and even give him shifts on D like Keefe would.

3) Give him a rest. He looked slow and gassed in the B series. Also the possibility he was just is slow and disinterested.

4) why risk injury? To a 11 million dollar player?