Player Discussion Marner

[Aashir Mallik]

at least with how he is producing, he shouldn't be getting over 11m.

I say shouldn't because you never know with the leafs anymore.

 

[thewave]

at least with how he is producing, he shouldn't be getting over 11m.

I say shouldn't because you never know with the leafs anymore.

I read 11m and my face went numb. He needs to do more with less.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

I read 11m and my face went numb. He needs to do more with less.

yea, but I don't see him taking an actual pay decrease/discount

that's not how the players we have are wired

 

[Suntouchable13]

yea, but I don't see him taking an actual pay decrease/discount

that's not how the players we have are wired

Why would the Leafs pay a guy 11M that doesn’t step up in the playoffs? Matthews, 13M, doesn’t step up in the playoffs. That’s a lot of money to guys who simply can’t get it done. Where is the faith that they will ever get it done? There is none. IT’s mind boggling the culture Shanahan and Dubas have created here. They had a chance to be really strict with these guys but they blew it. Marner shouldn’t be getting paid 11M+ unless he shows he can lead this team somewhere this spring. There's nothing wrong with walking away and going in a different direction.

 

[ACC1224]

 

[Antropovsky]

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Helps me sleep at night that there is uncertainty whether Marner, the 3rd highest paid player will make this lineup. Not to mention that 2nd year player, Bedard, made the list. Lol

 

[IPS]

Yesterday, we even saw Marner show some anger, initiating a shove after the whistle. Wow, that's a first!If he were more involved in the physical areas, maybe we'd have seen more of these emotional reactions. Maybe he'd be more prepared for playoff hockey by now, grizzled and skilled in those dirty areas. Right now, he looks like a rookie in them, but hey, at least he will be a little more ready for playoff this year.

Remember seeing that and thinking to myself that is the very first time I've EVER seen Marner get physical after a whistle.

 

[Antropovsky]

Remember seeing that and thinking to myself that is the very first time I've EVER seen Marner get physical after a whistle.

Same... I was blown away.

Marner has distanced himself so much from the physical side of the game that his emotions never get the best of him. Then Berube makes him go into a corner, and voilà!

How can you be ready for playoff hockey if you’re not playing physical during the season?

How can you "go to war," as Marner described the playoffs in his locker cleanout interview, if you’re not in the battles?

How can you match the intensity of the opponent if you’re just standing on the side, watching?

It’s like any human skill: if you’re forced to do it regularly, you become accustomed to it, and it starts to come naturally. But if you avoid it all season, then come playoffs, you’ll be timid and afraid. That’s where Marner’s mistakes come from.

It really does pass the eye test.

I would have loved to be at that practice where Marner was standing on the side, waiting for the puck to come loose, and Berube yelled, “Marner, get in there!” . Obviously something clearly triggered the change.

Even in the game against the Blues on the penalty kill, Marner got into a board battle, holding the puck for a large chunk of the Blues’ power play. The broadcast praised him for using his body and board work to protect the puck.

In the past, that never would have happened. He would have just waited for the puck to squirt out and then tried a stick lift or a poke check.

 

[Arzak]

View attachment 926235

So Hyman is now on McDavid's level?

Team Mitch reaching again?

 

[Arzak]

lol...that isnt what coaches do. All coaches want their players playing in the dirty areas and picking up dirty goals.

The leagues best players do it all. What is Mackinnon? He had 51 goals and 140 points last year. Kucherov had 44 goals and 144 points..he has 10 goals in 12 games this year. Mcdavid won the rocket a couple years ago with 64 goals. Panarin had 49 goals and 120 points last year. Hes got 9 in 11 this year already. What was their coaches instructing them to be...shooters, passers, grinders?

"Mitch your number one goal is padding advanced stats, send floaters their way!The rest of you, go play playoff hockey!"



Dekes be arguing this crap on two pages.

Mitch, we need you to cry now. Coaches orders !


Did you get too close to their goalie? Cut all the way back son !


What was Keefe thinking? We'll see the real playoff monster this year under Berube !

 

[notDatsyuk]

Clearly not, but it seems you can't admit you were wrong. I'll just assume that you mixing up that post with an unrelated one 13 pages and 377 posts back was just another one of your innocent mistakes...

There was only one link that you provided, and I clicked on it. I'll just assume that you are mixing up your stories as usual and you just can't admit you are wrong.

Really, it's my fault - I know better that to start following you down your rabbit holes, trying to make any sense of your posts, and trying to get a sensible answer or admission of a mistake from you.

I'll stop.

 

[Gary Nylund]

He's played really well without the weight of the captaincy on his back. I'd keep him if the price is right. He's only 34.

Sure, I'd keep him too depending on the terms. My point is that the 11M that's freed up by his contract ending isn't enough to change much, since much of that 11M will go to his replacement (even if that replacement is still JT). He's not going sign for 2M or whatever some people are dreaming about, more than likely at least 5M, maybe more, the some of the rest will go to raises.

Remember 2 years ago we had Rielly in his prime, Brodie was still playing really well and we added McCabe, Schenn and ROR and still went nowhere.

This core seems to be rotten to the core and whoever you bring is probably not going to change that.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

He's played really well without the weight of the captaincy on his back. I'd keep him if the price is right. He's only 34.

He's playing for a contract. Has nothing to do with the C.

 

[hamzarocks]

Sure, I'd keep him too depending on the terms. My point is that the 11M that's freed up by his contract ending isn't enough to change much, since much of that 11M will go to his replacement (even if that replacement is still JT). He's not going sign for 2M or whatever some people are dreaming about, more than likely at least 5M, maybe more, the some of the rest will go to raises.

Remember 2 years ago we had Rielly in his prime, Brodie was still playing really well and we added McCabe, Schenn and ROR and still went nowhere.

This core seems to be rotten to the core and whoever you bring is probably not going to change that.

I meam with 3 years of 34, 7 to 88, 5 of 44 left after this maybe we just accept the team is screwed and embrace R1 or R2 at best exits

We can get rid of 16 and 91 but 60% of the core will be making still 35% of a 92M cap and none of the three will likely be worth their AAVs and give us the playoff numbers we want.

I just think it will likely be a half decade of failed contention with this core (16 and 91 back) as MLSE wants to ensure playoff streak + revenue and isnt looking to sell off and retool sadly due to being risk averse and not able to bring competent managment to retool/rebuild this team

 

[Dekes For Days]

View attachment 926235

McDavid-Marner would be fun to see. I understand Hyman because he's a regular linemate of McDavid (kinda like how Kunitz got a spot because of Crosby in 2014), but surprised to see Lafreniere, Suzuki, and Barzal on there over some other names. Also bit of a weird combination as a 4th line.

There was only one link that you provided, and I clicked on it.

There was indeed only one link, and it always went to the post I showed you. Seems a bit suspicious that after misrepresenting me, you somehow missed the linked post that proved you wrong and ended up 13 pages and 377 posts back on a post that clearly had nothing to do with the discussion, and now you won't just acknowledge your mistake. Regardless, you have the correct post now, so I'll nicely ask you to stop with the personal attacks and get back to the Marner discussion.

 

[Dekes For Days]

?

For some reason, that guy seems to think that sending floaters from the point is how you pad advanced stats... I don't know why anybody would think this when it's really quite the opposite. I'm also not sure why there's suddenly debate over the idea that coaches play to the strengths of players, give them different roles and responsibilities, and game plan around the weaknesses of opposing goalies. If the argument is that coaches don't do this stuff, then I don't know why anybody would have cared about switching coaches this offseason in the first place. You don't send McDavid out and then judge him based on how much time he spent screening goalies and fighting. It's a misuse of his skillset.

 

[Peasy]

Another thing Marner can add to his impressive resume.

Elite floater point shot shooter

 

[Jojalu]

I meam with 3 years of 34, 7 to 88, 5 of 44 left after this maybe we just accept the team is screwed and embrace R1 or R2 at best exits

We can get rid of 16 and 91 but 60% of the core will be making still 35% of a 92M cap and none of the three will likely be worth their AAVs and give us the playoff numbers we want.

I just think it will likely be a half decade of failed contention with this core (16 and 91 back) as MLSE wants to ensure playoff streak + revenue and isnt looking to sell off and retool sadly due to being risk averse and not able to bring competent managment to retool/rebuild this team

It was interesting watching the new Red Sox doc.

The Sox and Leafs have a simular problem.

The Sox were full of stars, were always right there and were accused of not having the toughness or the hatred of losing enough.

They brought in Theo Epstein who tried to change the core but it fell through in the winter.

Sox got off to a poor start in 2004 before Eipstein made the bold move to trade their hometown hero Nomar. On paper the lost the trade by a wide margin. But he acquired 2 players he thought would make the difference come postseason. The rest is history.

Raptors made the same type of trade moving on from Derozen and bringing in Khawai.

I wonder if the Leafs brass has the courage to make the same type of move?

 

[leafs in five]

Another thing Marner can add to his impressive resume.

Elite floater point shot shooter

/s ?

 

[ACC1224]

It was interesting watching the new Red Sox doc.

The Sox and Leafs have a simular problem.

The Sox were full of stars, were always right there and were accused of not having the toughness or the hatred of losing enough.

They brought in Theo Epstein who tried to change the core but it fell through in the winter.

Sox got off to a poor start in 2004 before Eipstein made the bold move to trade their hometown hero Nomar. On paper the lost the trade by a wide margin. But he acquired 2 players he thought would make the difference come postseason. The rest is history.

Raptors made the same type of trade moving on from Derozen and bringing in Khawai.

I wonder if the Leafs brass has the courage to make the same type of move?

Not making a move doesn't mean they are scared it means they just don't agree that what you think should happen is the best way forward.

 

[sunstersun]

If Marner walks to FA at this rate, re-signing him might not be our choice.

 

[leafs in five]

I would support trading Marner for the Kawhi in 2019 of the NHL

 

[mclaren55]

Not sure how anyone can justify giving this guy a raise. Even if he re-signs for his current contract, where exactly do we expect to go? He gets completely dominated in the playoffs, he can't create space, he makes panicked decisions, doesn't engage physically. How does management view this guy as one of "the" guys? He objectively isn't good enough in the playoffs (neither is Matthews) when you have guys like Hyman, Krejci, and Benn ahead of you in playoff scoring (since he has entered the league). It's sad really that we have so much tied up in these guys.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Not making a move doesn't mean they are scared it means they just don't agree that what you think should happen is the best way forward.

The reason they don't agree could be that they're scared.

 

[Jojalu]

Not making a move doesn't mean they are scared it means they just don't agree that what you think should happen is the best way forward.

Could be.

They quite also could be scared. I don't even think scared is the right word. But you do need to be bold to make a change. Especially with a fan favourite, or cornerstone of the franchise.

The only 3 options would really be Matthews, Nylander or Marner. Not sure JT or Rielly would make all that much of a difference.