Player Discussion Marner

[thewave]

Under rated storyline, Marner 11 in 10, despite the PP stinking and Matthews blowing chance after chance he's creating. He's been great defensively as well.

Back to whatever this place has become, I can't stay long lol.

It's the place where people point out players who preach deserving to be paid top 5 in the NHL while producing apparently like to 20th+ or something hilarious.

It's a fun place. Let's talk about them when the little charity chart shows the NHL points leaders as

AM 2nd
MM 4th
WN 7th

Because that's about what we are paying for and if we ain't coming close to that, we ain't winning shit.

 

[sunstersun]

You like comparing Marner to Domi often... do Domi now.

Tell us all how he is better than Marner with half the assists and 0 goals.

Marner is contributing more than anyone on the team right now, this must eat you up inside.

OEL and Marner are 1 behind Nylander in 5v5 points, you are grasping.

Tavares has as many ESP as Nylander, who is carrying who? Tavares did it in 1 less game.

Domi hasn't played on Matthews wing? Surely you understand that people weren't comparing 2C Domi vs 1W Marner.

I do think Domi's stats on Matthews wing would be pretty comparable to Marner's on Tavares wing. Unless Marner suddenly figured out how to shoot. Or grow big. Or skate faster.

 

[Skullz]

Panarin signed at 14.29% of the cap in 2019 with NYR. He was 26 at the time and had put up slightly worse numbers than Marner.

14.29% with a 92.5 million cap would be 13.2 million annually. I would argue that Marner should take a little because there has been no playoff success to this point. Therefore, something around 12.5 seems fair to me.

 

[NVious]

Over the last 3 seasons, Marner has had a 21% drop. Over the same time period, Tkachuk has had a 20% drop. Is Tkachuk a "soft little brat who gets outmuscled and turns into a mediocre player come playoff time"? Surely he will never win a cup, right?

2013-2017, Crosby had a 23% drop. Is Crosby a "soft little brat who gets outmuscled and turns into a mediocre player come playoff time"? Surely he will never win a cup (let alone two within that timeframe), right?

In the 2020s, Stone has had a 27% drop. Surely he will never win a cup, right?
2018-2023, Stamkos had a 32% drop. Surely he will never win a cup, right?

Over his career, Marner has a smaller drop off than Matthews and Tavares on his own team. Why are you going after Marner instead of them? Less of a drop than a bunch of players around the league. I guess Panarin, Meier, Kaprizov, Stamkos, Robertson, Petersson, Connor, etc., etc. suck.

You're actually hurting your own argument with this, as it makes it pretty easy to see how situation-based playoff production is, and how silly it can be to compare across teams experiencing vastly different things, with no context. In the situation Marner has been trying to produce in, those players put up 33 and 41 point paces. They moved to teams experiencing easier situations to produce, and instantly started producing more. What a coincidence! Marner's production changes align with the team's production changes, which align with the production changes of the teams and players that face the opponents and goalies that we face after us. What a bunch more coincidences!

I'm not looking to pay him 15m, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with the 12m you mentioned earlier, or even higher. We've had ~20m cap space in each of the last two offseasons. Cap space is not the magic fix-all that some treat it as. There's really no realistic alternative(s) that is worth spending it on more than Marner.

The reason nobody would say that is because they are very clearly not whereas Marner very clearly is, but you can play obtuse and pretend that's not the case. If you asked 100 current/former GMs who they're taking in the playoffs, not one would choose Marner over Tkachuk or Crosby.

The reason you feel the need to twist stats into specific time frames is because deep down you know Mitch is a soft powder puff who passes up open nets (nobody in their right mind would say the names you listed are those things), doesn't want to get hit and has some awful stats playing with an all time goal scoring great in Matthews and a great goal scorer in Nylander, even Tavares used to be decent at goal scoring but that had no impact on Mitch's poor totals.

Between Stone/Crosby/Stamkos/Tkachuk, all of them have equaled or surpassed Mitch's CAREER playoff goals in a SINGLE PLAYOFF RUN.

Literally your only defense is to say "those guys suck as well" in Matthews/Tavares which is true which is why Tavares needs to go as well and I have never defended Matthews either. The difference between you and me though is that you make excuses for Mitch for some reason, I make no excuses for Tavares/Matthews.

No I'm really not, the point is that those guys who equal one Marner in terms of salary have gone on to do better things than Marner himself on their new teams, Mitch can't do that himself or get that out of Nylander/Tavares/Matthews because he is a bus rider not a driver.

His playoff statistics put him at about the 60-80 best player meaning at best he should be earning in the 7-8 million dollar range. He is a playoff dud and it's doubtful you can teach such an arrogant/small and weak player to have heart.

 

[Gary Nylund]

He's been OK?

Nothing impressive or beyond Marner regularly.

I don't get it, none people say Marner plays badly in the regular season. He's very good there. There are obvious limitations to his game right now that have been obvious for 10 years now. Overpassing.

His assist numbers are good, but at least 4 of them are just existing on the top line or PP. Goal numbers are barf worthy.

AM is playing bad, but the slack is picked up by Knies, who looks like a complete game wrecker every single night. That assist Marner picked up yesterday? Literally 99% Knies.

The most bizarre stat is JT having more points then Matthews despite playing 1 less game. And he doesn't even have wonder boy on his wing feeding the puck to him.

 

[Antropovsky]

He isn't even producing at his CURRENT contract value and neither is AM.

WN isn't even doing that unless you factor him being a L2 player with slowboy JT who did have a great game.

You guys just lionize these guys. It's hilarious , especially MM.

Coincidentally, last 2 years Matrhews/Marner werent producing at the beginning of the year either. Keefe split them up and put Matthews with Nylander and the flood gates opened.

But thats just a coincidence... just like its an incredible coincidence that Marner line is always goalied, yet apparently Marner is always setting up his linemates.

Fun fact, including the end of last season. Marner has 1 even strength goals in his last 20 season games.

Including playoffs, Marner has 4 ES goals in his past 37 games.

I wonder how much effect Marners lack of goal scoring ability effects his linemates production?

 

[sunstersun]

Coincidentally, last 2 years Matrhews/Marner werent producing at the beginning of the year either. Keefe took splite them up and put Matthews with Nylander and the flood gates opened.

But thats just a coincidence... just like its an incredible coincidence that Marner line is always goalied, yet apparently Marner is always setting up his linemates.

Fun fact, including the end of last season. Marner has 1 even strength goals in his last 20 season games.

Including playoffs, Marner has 4 ES goals in his past 37 games.

I wonder how much effect Marners lack of goal scoring ability effects his linemates production?

No, but listen. The playoffs, Marner had an injury.

Nylander and Matthews? Those guys were healthy

 

[thewave]

The reason nobody would say that is because they are very clearly not whereas Marner very clearly is, but you can play obtuse and pretend that's not the case. If you asked 100 current/former GMs who they're taking in the playoffs, not one would choose Marner over Tkachuk or Crosby.

The reason you feel the need to twist stats into specific time frames is because deep down you know Mitch is a soft powder puff who passes up open nets (nobody in their right mind would say the names you listed are those things), doesn't want to get hit and has some awful stats playing with an all time goal scoring great in Matthews and a great goal scorer in Nylander, even Tavares used to be decent at goal scoring but that had no impact on Mitch's poor totals.

Between Stone/Crosby/Stamkos/Tkachuk, all of them have equaled or surpassed Mitch's CAREER playoff goals in a SINGLE PLAYOFF RUN.

Literally your only defense is to say "those guys suck as well" in Matthews/Tavares which is true which is why Tavares needs to go as well and I have never defended Matthews either. The difference between you and me though is that you make excuses for Mitch for some reason, I make no excuses for Tavares/Matthews.

No I'm really not, the point is that those guys who equal one Marner in terms of salary have gone on to do better things than Marner himself on their new teams, Mitch can't do that himself or get that out of Nylander/Tavares/Matthews because he is a bus rider not a driver.

His playoff statistics put him at about the 60-80 best player meaning at best he should be earning in the 7-8 million dollar range. He is a playoff dud and it's doubtful you can teach such an arrogant/small and weak player to have heart.

Don't forget Hyman. He surpassed all of MM PO goals in a single run as well.

Great post

 

[Niagara Bill]

Over the last 3 seasons, Marner has had a 21% drop. Over the same time period, Tkachuk has had a 20% drop. Is Tkachuk a "soft little brat who gets outmuscled and turns into a mediocre player come playoff time"? Surely he will never win a cup, right?

2013-2017, Crosby had a 23% drop. Is Crosby a "soft little brat who gets outmuscled and turns into a mediocre player come playoff time"? Surely he will never win a cup (let alone two within that timeframe), right?

In the 2020s, Stone has had a 27% drop. Surely he will never win a cup, right?
2018-2023, Stamkos had a 32% drop. Surely he will never win a cup, right?

Over his career, Marner has a smaller drop off than Matthews and Tavares on his own team. Why are you going after Marner instead of them? Less of a drop than a bunch of players around the league. I guess Panarin, Meier, Kaprizov, Stamkos, Robertson, Petersson, Connor, etc., etc. suck.

You're actually hurting your own argument with this, as it makes it pretty easy to see how situation-based playoff production is, and how silly it can be to compare across teams experiencing vastly different things, with no context. In the situation Marner has been trying to produce in, those players put up 33 and 41 point paces. They moved to teams experiencing easier situations to produce, and instantly started producing more. What a coincidence! Marner's production changes align with the team's production changes, which align with the production changes of the teams and players that face the opponents and goalies that we face after us. What a bunch more coincidences!

I'm not looking to pay him 15m, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with the 12m you mentioned earlier, or even higher. We've had ~20m cap space in each of the last two offseasons. Cap space is not the magic fix-all that some treat it as. There's really no realistic alternative(s) that is worth spending it on more than Marner.

We didn't have 20m cap space unless you think only having 12 players under contract is ok. I am saying 21m with 20 players signed. Then we don't need to have a Reaves, Holmberg, Dewar, Lilly, etc. I do not know who is available, but add Minten, Cowan, and three 7.5m forwards, and we may have something...maybe a power play.

 

[Antropovsky]

The most bizarre stat is JT having more points then Matthews despite playing 1 less game. And he doesn't even have wonder boy on his wing feeding the puck to him.

How many empty nets has little Gretzky set up Matthews and Knies for this year? Patches has played 7 games and already set Tavares up on a empty net with the goalie out of position.

 

[francis246]

Look at the goal production. It's all from L2. Very glad Marner is racking those secondary assists though. Really making bank off touches and mentions. -1 still.

L1 should be leading the charge. JT and WN have no business being ahead of MM or AM but here we are

Plus minus is a dumb af stat. Also a majority of Marner’s assists are primary again this year!

 

[notDatsyuk]

He has more primary assists than anyone on the team... what are you talking about?

Primary assists at 5on5 - Domi has twice a many as Mitch.

Even funnier at per60 - Domi 1.97, Mitch 0.88.

 

[thewave]

Primary assists at 5on5 - Domi has twice a many as Mitch.

Even funnier at per60 - Domi 1.97, Mitch 0.88.

Any way you slice it this guy is not producing anywhere close to his current contract.

 

[notbias]

Primary assists at 5on5 - Domi has twice a many as Mitch.

Even funnier at per60 - Domi 1.97, Mitch 0.88.

Now do it for game 7s... keep adding more restrictions to the data until you get the numbers you want.

Marner has about double the points as Domi.

Any way you slice it this guy is not producing anywhere close to his current contract.

He is producing better than everyone on the team.

 

[stickty111]

Tavares has 2 less points than Marner, and the same 5 on 5 points despite averaging 5 less minutes overall, and 3 less at ES. Marner's also getting more favorable OZ starts. Yet I hear Tavares is washed, and Marner is continuing to grow and has been amazing? If JT is done, what does that say about Marner whose getting outproduced by JT?

No, but listen. The playoffs, Marner had an injury.

Nylander and Matthews? Those guys were healthy

It's always an injury for Marner, or linemates not helping him. Have to feel for him. All problems come to him.

 

[thewave]

Now do it for game 7s... keep adding more restrictions to the data until you get the numbers you want.

Marner has about double the points as Domi.



He is producing better than everyone on the team.

Gee I think JT and WN are producing better when I see they have all the goals. Then I go over to NHL.com and look and see MM is ranked 28th. He wants to be paid top 5 in the league.

Smart manager would LOL right in his agents face and send him on his way.

Half of Marners points could come after he shits bricks and throws the pucks away and it works out that a goal scorer like AM or now Knies put it in. You guys would say he is one of the best in the league.

That's actually how he gets a seriously large % of his points hilariously.

Fakest "superstar" in the NHL

 

[notDatsyuk]

Panarin signed at 14.29% of the cap in 2019 with NYR. He was 26 at the time and had put up slightly worse numbers than Marner.

14.29% with a 92.5 million cap would be 13.2 million annually. I would argue that Marner should take a little because there has been no playoff success to this point. Therefore, something around 12.5 seems fair to me.

Panarin put up 28G and 59A playing with Jenner as his centre (38 points).
Marner put up 26G and 59A playing with Matthews as his centre (107 points).
Nylander put up 40G and 47A playing with JT as his centre (80 points).

I'm not sure he deserves more than Willy.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Now do it for game 7s... keep adding more restrictions to the data until you get the numbers you want.

Marner has about double the points as Domi.



He is producing better than everyone on the team.

You said he had more primary assists - I just pointed out a simple fact.

Why not address the fact instead of the poster?

 

[notbias]

You said he had more primary assists - I just pointed out a simple fact.

Why not address the fact instead of the poster?

Does he have more primary assists?

You changed the constraints.

 

[thewave]

Tavares has 2 less points than Marner, and the same 5 on 5 points despite averaging 5 less minutes overall, and 3 less at ES. Marner's also getting more favorable OZ starts. Yet I hear Tavares is washed, and Marner is continuing to grow and has been amazing? If JT is done, what does that say about Marner whose getting outproduced by JT?


It's always an injury for Marner, or linemates not helping him. Have to feel for him. All problems come to him.

The miracle of messaging and spin. Do not believe your lying eyes. MM is solid gold, one of the best players to ever have lived.

I imagine by the end of his career he is going to be on a list of the top 10 overrated and overpaid players of all time.

 

[ULF_55]

The picture is the picture. Hockey happen fast and the great players play it at a fast pace. I thought Marner had this great vision……….i guess not

It is unbelievable.

However, to give Little m the benefit of doubt, they probably had a set play and we know he doesn't like to venture off set plays.

Regardless he's one of their top 3 players because he's good.

 

[Antropovsky]

Now do it for game 7s... keep adding more restrictions to the data until you get the numbers you want.

Marner has about double the points as Domi.



He is producing better than everyone on the team.

In 2019 Berkshire indicated there is a stat that tracks goal producing plays and Marner was far down the list in the league, despite Marners 94 point season that year. While Matthews, Nylander and Tavares were high.

This year he has at 3 points from clearing or dump ins. He has at least two assists from his shots attempts that were blocked at his teammates cleaned up.

He only has 1 5v5 pass that was intentional that led to a goal and it wasn't the greatest spot, but Matthews has the greatest shot and scored. Not that great of a setup either, it was a high low set play that all the leafs often do.

 

[ACC1224]

It is unbelievable.

However, to give Little m the benefit of doubt, they probably had a set play and we know he doesn't like to venture off set plays.

Regardless he's one of their top 3 players because he's good.

He's been great the last few games, really good start to the season this year.

 

[notbias]

In 2019 Berkshire indicated there is a stat that tracks goal producing plays and Marner was far down the list in the league, despite Marners 94 point season that year. While Matthews, Nylander and Tavares were high.

This year he has at 3 points from clearing or dump ins. He has at least two assists from his shots attempts that were blocked at his teammates cleaned up.

He only has 1 5v5 pass that was intentional that led to a goal and it wasn't the greatest spot, but Matthews has the greatest shot and scored. Not that great of a setup either, it was a high low set play that all the leafs often do.

You know, that is really good work and I value the time and effort you spend on all this (this is a lie), but your words are worthless.

Marner is outproducing everyone, he has been the best of the big 4, and I know this sucks for a lot of people.

 

[Antropovsky]

You know, that is really good work and I value the time and effort you spend on all this (this is a lie), but your words are worthless.

Marner is outproducing everyone, he has been the best of the big 4, and I know this sucks for a lot of people.

Just another dumb reporter right? Out to get Marner?