TSN: Marner on tsn: "We are grown men".

[Mess]

I read it as a Leaf management problem more than a Marner problem in some ways. Basically Keefe and Dubas are substitute teachers.

Their stated mission is to set a high standard and hold guys accountable. Okay.

You’ve identified Marner as falling short in some way. Ok fine. Now deliver that message in clear and constructive ways and get out of the way.

If Marner has been a problem, the bigger problem is Keefe and Dubas aren’t stable authority figures in the room.

I believe what you're saying is "The inmates are running the Asylum" and that is a bad situation from a management perspective.

 

[Blowfish]

Marner should have been traded by now...It's that simple.

 

[Gabriel426]

Yep all a bunch of nothing.

Better than all the stuff he said before. It was actually what real grown man would say during a winless streak for a contender. Gotta give him credits for that.
However, if they come out flat and lose to Flyers, there are just empty words like what they all say after each 1st round exits over the past few years.

 

[Gabriel426]

The fact that they do is pathetic

One of the most confusing developments from this debacle is the commentary that it’s a simple case of Mitch Marner smashing his stick. Of course, it’s not uncommon for a player to smash their stick when they are on the bench after a missed chance or a bad giveaway. But that’s not exactly how it happened.

Marner was called out and benched, then minutes later, in a calculated move, left the bench to unleash his anger. That’s not normal. Can you name a Toronto Maple Leaf who has done this in the past 20 years?

I watch a lot of hockey around the league. I have not seen a player, minutes after a benching, decide to leave the bench and lose it. If he came to the bench after the second giveaway and smashed his stick instantly, I would have shrugged. If, after getting called out in the timeout, he fired back at Keefe, it would have been understandable. And there are a ton of examples of both of those things happening over the years.

But this? I’m sorry, but there aren’t. If you have them, I’d love to hear them.

Why the questions about this Maple Leafs team run deeper than a slow start

This isn’t just about 10 games. If nothing else, this reality has to be recognized. Truthfully, Sheldon Keefe set the tone in this respect after the very first game of the season. “With everything our team has been through together, that is unacceptable.” “With everything our team has been...

mapleleafshotstove.com

Well, MM been known to be a slow starter and ain’t too bright when it comes to media. I guess getting benched might have not sink in until minutes later. Lol.

 

[Gabriel426]

I read it as a Leaf management problem more than a Marner problem in some ways. Basically Keefe and Dubas are substitute teachers.

Their stated mission is to set a high standard and hold guys accountable. Okay.

You’ve identified Marner as falling short in some way. Ok fine. Now deliver that message in clear and constructive ways and get out of the way.

If Marner has been a problem, the bigger problem is Keefe and Dubas aren’t stable authority figures in the room.

I think it is both.
Pretty sure we all had our fair shares of bad teachers, profs, clients and superiors. Do we tune out what they say and do our own thing, or listen and do the job, or just ignore them and carry on?

We can speculate all we want but none of us really knows what’s going on inside the locker room.
But one thing for certain, our top guys are really not leaders like Sid, Bergeron…bc the fact that Dubas constantly looking for vets to get that leadership quality into the group shown our top guys ain’t leaders yet.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Did Keefe really say that he sat out Marner so he could get an extra shift for Malgin? Malgin was glued to the bench in the 3rd period, I find it hard to believe Keefe was trying to get him out there as much as possible. What a flimsy excuse

 

[Canadian Finn]

Thank you for posting this and it confirms a lot of what some people are saying.

1. He doesn’t lack accountability and isn’t against it.

2. Fans and media do in fact create a lot of narratives.

3. Fans in particular are starting to project their feelings of inadequacy in their own life on Marner. In particular the fact that they don’t make a lot of money and he does and they have to work hard and feel he doesn’t (- really sad people have gotten to that point lol)

4. Paul Marner is a big ass issue

that's amazingly awesome!

I'm keeping that one to use for later.

 

[Gabriel426]

Thank you for posting this and it confirms a lot of what some people are saying.

1. He doesn’t lack accountability and isn’t against it.

2. Fans and media do in fact create a lot of narratives.

3. Fans in particular are starting to project their feelings of inadequacy in their own life on Marner. In particular the fact that they don’t make a lot of money and he does and they have to work hard and feel he doesn’t (- really sad people have gotten to that point lol)

4. Paul Marner is a big ass issue

So you are attacking the fans too.
Are you going to ignore everyone who criticize MM or any of the top guys?
Come on, your posts seem to be better than that except for that comment.
Joke or not, that’s a very uncalled for comment. I trust that you are a lot better than that.

 

[RoadWarrior]

I believe what you're saying is "The inmates are running the Asylum" and that is a bad situation from a management perspective.

It sounds to me like the reason the leafs didn't trade Muzzin in the off season is because he was acting as a de facto coach in the dressing room. Without him around the team is rudderless.

 

[PromisedLand]

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Marner should have been traded by now...It's that simple.

blowfish, arent you a b's fan? I see you in all our threads now.

 

[Racer88]

I miss Kadri

 

[francis246]

So you are attacking the fans too.
Are you going to ignore everyone who criticize MM or any of the top guys?
Come on, your posts seem to be better than that except for that comment.
Joke or not, that’s a very uncalled for comment. I trust that you are a lot better than that.

Literally above my post there’s a guy who complains about not making more than 50,000 in his life. And somehow that’s supposed to be Marner’s fault? Why he felt the need to bring that up in a Marner thread is beyond me.

There are fans who absolutely hate this guy cause he didn’t take a discount and they feel he’s not giving the same work ethic they give on a daily basis at their own shitty job they hate for way less money.

So yes I do feel like there is a portion of the fan base that looks at the money he makes and projects their inadequacies in their own life. Absolutely

People need to realize this is the new wave of athletes. They are their own brand, own entity, they are money driven. Maybe few aren’t that way but most are even if they don’t outwardly show it. It’s how they sustain their lifestyle. They are also trying to build generational wealth right. So they will try and get as much as they can.

 

[francis246]

I think most of us here would deem it an honour to be able to play for the Leafs and collect $10 + million to boot. I feel no sympathy for this punk whatsoever. The way he has sucked through the playoffs and so far this year would have only made any one of us work harder. So, the coach sits him for one shift. He should have been benched for a whole game. Real grown men when they get benched work that much harder. If I recall years ago when he sucked out in a playoff series said we don't play for the fans. Well, I don't cheer for him. As far as I'm concerned, he's a self-entitled POS. As someone who never made more than $50,000 a year, something he makes more than twice as much in 1 period, he has lost me. You want respect from the fans? Act like the grown man you claim to be, work your butt off, keep your mouth shut and stick your nose in the middle of things when you have to.

@Gabriel426

 

[Notsince67]

Literally above my post there’s a guy who complains about not making more than 50,000 in his life. And somehow that’s supposed to be Marner’s fault? Why he felt the need to bring that up in a Marner thread is beyond me.

There are fans who absolutely hate this guy cause he didn’t take a discount and they feel he’s not giving the same work ethic they give on a daily basis at their own shitty job they hate for way less money.

So yes I do feel like there is a portion of the fan base that looks at the money he makes and projects their inadequacies in their own life. Absolutely

People need to realize this is the new wave of athletes. They are their own brand, own entity, they are money driven. Maybe few aren’t that way but most are even if they don’t outwardly show it. It’s how they sustain their lifestyle. They are also trying to build generational wealth right. So they will try and get as much as they can.

I like my athletes rich. The poor ones usually aren't very good. Those who moan about athlete compensation have zero clue what they did to achieve it nor the brains to figure out that there is a market for athletes and they are generally paid around what they are worth. One can argue about the edges but putting up the salary in entirely and calling these guys entitled because they make more than a person who never missed a coffee break or a lunch break is absurd. Really pathetic and whiny stuff.

 

[Racer88]

On its own it shouldn’t matter what an athlete makes. However it does matter in a closed system with a hard cap when an athlete makes more then the proportional value they provide.

 

[francis246]

I like my athletes rich. The poor ones usually aren't very good. Those who moan about athlete compensation have zero clue what they did to achieve it nor the brains to figure out that there is a market for athletes and they are generally paid around what they are worth. One can argue about the edges but putting up the salary in entirely and calling these guys entitled because they make more than a person who never missed a coffee break or a lunch break is absurd. Really pathetic and whiny stuff.

Agreed, you can’t compare what you go through in your normal job to what these guys are doing. It’s not the same. But a lot of people do and they end up bitter.

Exactly, these guys are going to take whatever the market says they are worth. Are we forgetting that somebody (cough cough Dubas) put that number in front of Marner. If someone says here have 10.93 million are you realistically gonna say you know what I’m gonna take 9. Come on lol. Not a chance.

Even with other superstars like Rantanen, Point, Aho those teams didn’t offer them over 10.93. Those superstars probably asked for it, but the teams put a hard number of 9.5 or 9 in front of them and the players took it. If Dubas wanted Marner at 9 or 9.5, he should have stood firm at that number. You can’t blame Marner for accepting life changing money that was put in front of him. Can you be upset with him for not living up to the contract? yes absolutely but that’s more on Dubas for handing it to him

 

[francis246]

On its own it shouldn’t matter what an athlete makes. However it does matter in a closed system with a hard cap when an athlete makes more then the proportional value they provide.

I understand that, but it’s not Marner’s job to manage the cap. It’s Dubas’

 

[Gary Nylund]

Literally above my post there’s a guy who complains about not making more than 50,000 in his life. And somehow that’s supposed to be Marner’s fault? Why he felt the need to bring that up in a Marner thread is beyond me.

There are fans who absolutely hate this guy cause he didn’t take a discount and they feel he’s not giving the same work ethic they give on a daily basis at their own shitty job they hate for way less money.

So yes I do feel like there is a portion of the fan base that looks at the money he makes and projects their inadequacies in their own life. Absolutely

People need to realize this is the new wave of athletes. They are their own brand, own entity, they are money driven. Maybe few aren’t that way but most are even if they don’t outwardly show it. It’s how they sustain their lifestyle. They are also trying to build generational wealth right. So they will try and get as much as they can.

The way I read it, he wasn't complaining about how much he made and he wasn't complaining about how much Marner made either. It sounded to me like he was complaining about Marner not working his butt off while making obscene amounts of money.

So as a working stiff, he feels like if Marner is getting all that dough, he as a fan has the right to expect Marner to work his ass off every single period of hockey he plays and I agree. Bobby Orr said the same thing, he doesn't begrudge the money players make now but feels that they should be giving 100% out there all the time in return (paraphrasing).

I bought Orr's book, remember reading that and nodding my head in agreement. You're living the dream, making a ton of money to play the game you love and in Marner's case, you even get to do it for the team you grew up dreaming of playing for - your hometown. There is zero excuse for mailing it in, not even for one shift. JMHO.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Agreed, you can’t compare what you go through in your normal job to what these guys are doing. It’s not the same. But a lot of people do and they end up bitter.

Exactly, these guys are going to take whatever the market says they are worth. Are we forgetting that somebody (cough cough Dubas) put that number in front of Marner. If someone says here have 10.93 million are you realistically gonna say you know what I’m gonna take 9. Come on lol. Not a chance.

Even with other superstars like Rantanen, Point, Aho those teams didn’t offer them over 10.93. Those superstars probably asked for it, but the teams put a hard number of 9.5 or 9 in front of them and the players took it. If Dubas wanted Marner at 9 or 9.5, he should have stood firm at that number. You can’t blame Marner for accepting life changing money that was put in front of him. Can you be upset with him for not living up to the contract? yes absolutely but that’s more on Dubas for handing it to him

I agree completely. At the same time, the higher Marner's pay, the more pissed off fans will be when he doesn't play up to it. That's human nature, and that's just life - with increased compensation comes increased expectations and that's doubly so in this city. Marner should know that as well as anyone so he's the last one that should be whining about fans being unhappy with his performance. I love Marner as a player, but behaves like a spoiled child at times and there's just no way he can behave like that and not expect some grief for it, period.

 

[Blowfish]

blowfish, arent you a b's fan? I see you in all our threads now.

Hockey fan living in South Western Ontario...I was ready to be casual Leaf fan up until Tavares was signed. The team was young and hungry before the signing. Much like Buffalo today.

I follow the leafs hoping to see them rectify things and it's frustrating as hell watching Dubas role with the same Core.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Hi Paul

PS when Mitch waived his hand after his goal up to stands in Zona game it was directly at his mom and dad who were both at game

 

[ACC1224]

PS when Mitch waived his hand after his goal up to stands in Zona game it was directly at his mom and dad who were both at game

They still sitting in 104/105?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

They still sitting in 104/105?

Yep 105 .. they don't go to every game as sometimes I see Mitch's bro and girlfriend like last night

 

[GoonieFace]

It sounds to me like the reason the leafs didn't trade Muzzin in the off season is because he was acting as a de facto coach in the dressing room. Without him around the team is rudderless.

This is pathetic. How can a group of professional athletes not manage and motivate themselves in the dressing room. I always found this strange that certain players are needed to keep others in line and focused.