Prospect Info: Marner Magic about to take OHL by kNight -All purpose thread

[Byron Bitz]

Marner is not ready at all. Needs a couple more years minimum.

I think he only needs one more year

 

[Mess]

I personally wouldn't be surprised if Marner is cut and on his way back to London tomorrow.

Not sure he will see any more NHL action this season.

 

[one77]

He'll make the team next year.

JVR - Nylander - Kapanen
Brown - Marner - X (player from trading Phaneuf)
X - Kadri - Panik
Komarov - Gauthier - Winnik
-Holland/Bracco/Johnson

Rielly - Chychrun D)
Gardiner - Loov
Percy - Harrington
-Polak/Dermott

Bernier
Bibeau

 

[Community]

He'll make the team next year.

JVR - Nylander - Kapanen
Brown - Marner - X (player from trading Phaneuf)
X - Kadri - Panik
Komarov - Gauthier - Winnik
-Holland/Bracco/Johnson

Rielly - Chychrun D)
Gardiner - Loov
Percy - Harrington
-Polak/Dermott

Bernier
Bibeau

If he is still on our team (I'm confident he will be), Kadri will be our #1C for at least the next 3 years.

Next year I envision something like:

JVR - Kadri - Vet/FA/trade return
Lupul - Nylander - Brown/Kap (one stays down until injuries)
Komarov - Holland - Marner
Winnik - X - X

Rielly/Gardiner/Phaneuf?/Harrington/Percy/Robidas/FA

We're either going to have a lot of rookies next year, overripen 1 or more of our prospects, or one of our top 5 prospects stagnate.

 

[crump]

I personally wouldn't be surprised if Marner is cut and on his way back to London tomorrow.

Not sure he will see any more NHL action this season.

Kyper said this just as they cut away to the Vancouver game. Must have heard something.

 

[Semantics]

Kyper said this just as they cut away to the Vancouver game. Must have heard something.

It also just is the most logical choice. They need to use these last three games to pick through the logjam for the last few spots, and start getting real lines and defense pairings rolling. No room to keep around guys who are definitely going back to junior.

 

[34]

He is not ready. 2 years and he will be. Not before for sure.

 

[13pacheco31]

He'll make the team next year.

JVR - Nylander - Kapanen
Brown - Marner - X (player from trading Phaneuf)
X - Kadri - Panik
Komarov - Gauthier - Winnik
-Holland/Bracco/Johnson

Rielly - Chychrun D)
Gardiner - Loov
Percy - Harrington
-Polak/Dermott

Bernier
Bibeau

I don't see Phaneuf being traded, especially if that would be the lot of players in our D core next year. Way too green. Polak will be a UFA at the end of this season so he'll be gone and Robidas will still be on the team and essentially untradable at 3 million. That means that would leave 2 spots on the team for Loov, Percy, Harrington and Dermott next year.

I don't see Kadri not being no.1 next year and no way Nylander and Marner are the top 2 centres for this team next year. In fact, if Marner does make the team he's likely starting at wing.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

He'll make the team next year.

JVR - Nylander - Kapanen
Brown - Marner - X (player from trading Phaneuf)
X - Kadri - Panik
Komarov - Gauthier - Winnik
-Holland/Bracco/Johnson

Rielly - Chychrun D)
Gardiner - Loov
Percy - Harrington
-Polak/Dermott

Bernier
Bibeau

I hope I'm wrong, but I get the feeling Marner won't be strong enough next year to play in the NHL. He'll likely need a year in AHL.

 

[Mess]

I hope I'm wrong, but I get the feeling Marner won't be strong enough next year to play in the NHL. He'll likely need a year in AHL.

He is too young to play in the AHL next year and that will play heavily in Leafs decision in what to do with him even if he isn't 100 % NHL ready.

 

[member 147413]

I know our prospect pool has improved, but we're not going to have 6+ prospects break onto the big team in the next 2 years. I doubt we have more than 3. It's far more likely that most we see as "guarantees" don't make the NHL. Outside of Nylander and Percy (Yes, no Marner) none of our prospects are guarantees to make the NHL.

We have also got tonnes of roadblocks for some of these kids, don't get me wrong, competition is great, but there's a point where they're not going to get a chance to improve because all things equal, the vet wins out.

 

[Gutless]

I know our prospect pool has improved, but we're not going to have 6+ prospects break onto the big team in the next 2 years. I doubt we have more than 3. It's far more likely that most we see as "guarantees" don't make the NHL. Outside of Nylander and Percy (Yes, no Marner) none of our prospects are guarantees to make the NHL.

We have also got tonnes of roadblocks for some of these kids, don't get me wrong, competition is great, but there's a point where they're not going to get a chance to improve because all things equal, the vet wins out.

All things being equal vets should win out. If Marner projects as a star player then he should be able to demonstrate without a shadow of a doubt that he's better than a journeyman vet on a PTO. They're not roadblocks, but benchmarks that guys like Marner need to surpass to make the NHL and create impact. Competition is always great to establish a barometer to guide judgment.

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

This rule that Marner cannot play in the AHL next year but is allowed to be on an NHL roster is ridiculous...He's obviously not ready right now but 2-2.5 years seems reasonable to me...

If he doesn't make the Leafs next year going back to the OHL would be a wasted season IMO...I wonder if the SHL would be a better option than the OHL?...The downside of the SHL or even the Swiss league (where Mathews is playing) is you cannot guarantee ice time ...Some of those Euro coaches don't like to give rookies a lot of ice time,although Nylander was an exception.

 

[ULF_55]

This rule that Marner cannot play in the AHL next year but is allowed to be on an NHL roster is ridiculous...He's obviously not ready right now but 2-2.5 years seems reasonable to me...

If he doesn't make the Leafs next year going back to the OHL would be a wasted season IMO...I wonder if the SHL would be a better option than the OHL?...The downside of the SHL or even the Swiss league (where Mathews is playing) is you cannot guarantee ice time ...Some of those Euro coaches don't like to give rookies a lot of ice time,although Nylander was an exception.

He is under contract to the Leafs, so he could be loaned to the SweHL (if he agreed) and then since he is just a loan, if he was getting no ice time they could recall him.

So the Leafs would maintain some control even while he was in Sweden.

Hey, let's put it this way, if he is indeed a potential superstar what SweHL team wouldn't play him in critical situations? His play would determine if he's worthy of 1st. line minutes.

 

[hamzarocks]

i think marner is ready by training camp next year. He should be able demolish junior this year, and is too good for the league, he is good enough for the nhl imo but it would hrty his devolopment long term. I think he wins the scoring title in the chl and dominates at the wjc, next year he comes 15 pound stronger and is able to play a stronger game.

 

[Mess]

He is under contract to the Leafs, so he could be loaned to the SweHL (if he agreed) and then since he is just a loan, if he was getting no ice time they could recall him.

So the Leafs would maintain some control even while he was in Sweden.

Hey, let's put it this way, if he is indeed a potential superstar what SweHL team wouldn't play him in critical situations? His play would determine if he's worthy of 1st. line minutes.

Just to play devils advocate in this debate.

Has a 19 year old Canadian born & bread player in the history or the World (without European roots) ever been sent overseas to play?

Mark Hunter is part owner of the Knights and they are trying to win National championships Memorial Cup yearly in the CHL. Why would he support sending his best player away to a foreign country at the expense of his own team and where he gets to partake in the profits of the organization?

Hunter (Director of player development) has a complete conflict of interest here sending Marner away from London where they have complete control of his TOI and development. While overseas they have no control of ice-time or opportunity or focused on Marner development as a 1-year rental only.

What is Marner doesn't want to play in Sweden or Finland or KHL and wants to have Mom's home cooking?.

Euro Ice surface is larger and the game much different and as such your developing a young player under non NHL conditions other than older competition. If you want Marner to make quicker read and react skills than sending him to a league with more time and space because there is more room out there its counter productive. Leafs brought Nylander over to NA after only 1/2 a season because it was to learn how to play on smaller ice surfaces against bigger physical players. You're actually developing bad habits for a 19 year old with the style and game being so different, limited contract etc.

What if Leafs top pick next year is from London ie Matthew Tkachuk or Max Jones then developing them as a winger along with Marner is 2 birds with 1 stone development?.

Even if Marner isn't 100% ready wouldn't it be better to simply play him 10-15 minutes a night in the NHL in a depth role and practice with the team and get experience than playing in SEL?.

 

[ULF_55]

Just to play devils advocate in this debate.

Has a 19 year old Canadian born & bread player in the history or the World (without European roots) ever been sent overseas to play?

Mark Hunter is part owner of the Knights and they are trying to win National championships Memorial Cup yearly in the CHL. Why would he support sending his best player away to a foreign country at the expense of his own team and where he gets to partake in the profits of the organization?

Hunter (Director of player development) has a complete conflict of interest here sending Marner away from London where they have complete control of his TOI and development. While overseas they have no control of ice-time or opportunity or focused on Marner development as a 1-year rental only.

What is Marner doesn't want to play in Sweden or Finland or KHL and wants to have Mom's home cooking?.

Euro Ice surface is larger and the game much different and as such your developing a young player under non NHL conditions other than older competition. If you want Marner to make quicker read and react skills than sending him to a league with more time and space because there is more room out there its counter productive. Leafs brought Nylander over to NA after only 1/2 a season because it was to learn how to play on smaller ice surfaces against bigger physical players. You're actually developing bad habits for a 19 year old with the style and game being so different, limited contract etc.

What if Leafs top pick next year is from London ie Matthew Tkachuk or Max Jones then developing them as a winger along with Marner is 2 birds with 1 stone development?.

Even if Marner isn't 100% ready wouldn't it be better to simply play him 10-15 minutes a night in the NHL in a depth role and practice with the team and get experience than playing in SEL?.

Yes, I have said before that Marner may stay with the Leafs next year even if he is not ready due to the rules he is under, junior or NHL.

 

[Mess]

Yes, I have said before that Marner may stay with the Leafs next year even if he is not ready due to the rules he is under, junior or NHL.

If Marner isn't 100% ready next year this is what I would do.

Firstly you are allowed 9 NHL games before a year kicks in. However those games don't have to be in a row or the first 9 of an NHL season. So you keep Marner with the Leafs, let him practice and give him those 9 games (selectively picking opponents) but spread it out over the course Oct/Nov first ~15 Leaf games.

Then you return to London mid November.. Then mid December he is released to join the WJC team and play there for 3 weeks in that tournament.

Then he returns to London mid January to go a Memorial Cup run and playoff experience and once London season ends he joins the Marlies for a Calder Cup run.

So during his 19 year old season he splits time between Leafs (9 games), Team Canada WJC, London (1/2 a season), Marlies playing pro and amateur for his development.

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

If Marner isn't 100% ready next year this is what I would do.

Firstly you are allowed 9 NHL games before a year kicks in. However those games don't have to be in a row or the first 9 of an NHL season. So you keep Marner with the Leafs, let him practice and give him those 9 games (selectively picking opponents) but spread it out over the course Oct/Nov first ~15 Leaf games.

Then you return to London mid November.. Then mid December he is released to join the WJC team and play there for 3 weeks in that tournament.

Then he returns to London mid January to go a Memorial Cup run and playoff experience and once London season ends he joins the Marlies for a Calder Cup run.

So during his 19 year old season he splits time between Leafs (9 games), Team Canada WJC, London (1/2 a season), Marlies playing pro and amateur for his development.

I like that idea...A little NHL exposure and then the WJC...I guess another year of physical maturation and OHL dominance woudn't hurt in 2016.

 

[Mess]

I like that idea...A little NHL exposure and then the WJC...I guess another year of physical maturation and OHL dominance woudn't hurt in 2016.

Marner could get NHL experience, get a chance to win a gold medal with TC in WJC, win a Memorial Cup in London and join the Marlies for a Calder Cup run and AHL experience during his 19 year old season.

I don't see this as a bad thing if he isn't quite good enough to stick in the NHL in 2016-17. However the first hope is that he comes to camp next near and impresses and makes the team and problem solved as plan B wouldn't even come into play then.

 

[ULF_55]

Marner could get NHL experience, get a chance to win a gold medal with TC in WJC, win a Memorial Cup in London and join the Marlies for a Calder Cup run and AHL experience during his 19 year old season.

I don't see this as a bad thing if he isn't quite good enough to stick in the NHL in 2016-17. However the first hope is that he comes to camp next near and impresses and makes the team and problem solved as plan B wouldn't even come into play then.

Except I don't think that is enough playing time to turn him into a NHL center.

Almost like he's being red-shirted.

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

Marner could get NHL experience, get a chance to win a gold medal with TC in WJC, win a Memorial Cup in London and join the Marlies for a Calder Cup run and AHL experience during his 19 year old season.

I don't see this as a bad thing if he isn't quite good enough to stick in the NHL in 2016-17. However the first hope is that he comes to camp next near and impresses and makes the team and problem solved as plan B wouldn't even come into play then.

So he's allowed to play in the AHL playoffs but not the AHL regular season in 2016?

The route you described would be an excellent development year for Marner...The Leafs would be in control of every step if you take into consideration that Hunter (and his bro) owns the London knights.

 

[Mess]

So he's allowed to play in the AHL playoffs but not the AHL regular season in 2016?

The route you described would be an excellent development year for Marner...The Leafs would be in control of every step if you take into consideration that Hunter (and his bro) owns the London knights.

Yes Marner could only play in the AHL once London season has ended officially and that is true this year and next year.

If London were to get upset and eliminated from this years OHL playoffs, Marner could already play in the AHL with the Marlies this year and gain pro experience.

 

[Bomber0104]

I think he only needs one more year

I seriously hope you say this with the caveat that he adds a substantial amount of bulk over the course of the next year. Putting a high-value, high-upside prospect like Marner in a position where he could get seriously hurt does nothing for him, the Leafs, or us fans.

I know everyone's drooling over the potential, but it's going to be important over the next few years to show some restraint and patience. Every 4th overall draft pick comes into the NHL with their own individual circumstances, and they need to be considered individually.

I don't care what "X" year's 4th overall pick did or how his development went. I care about Marner's.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Marner won't be in the OHL for 2 more years.. not that hard to understand he won't be gaining anything in 2016-2017 playing in the OHL... well its hard for some people to understand but..