Prospect Info: Marner Magic about to take OHL by kNight -All purpose thread

[Nithoniniel]

maybe I did not word or phrase it properly.


Our scouts, our GM have already made a definitive call/ choice / decision on the Marn, Hanif debate

They did indeed draft marn over hanif, of that there is little doubt.

They (scouts,GM) have already made their crystal ball call on the two.

There is no reasonable reason for others not to make their own call.

I think there's a difference there as well. I'd guess that management made a decision well aware that they are just picking the option with the better chance to become a better player, in their point of view. But well aware that it is still about chance.

Whereas a certain poster called it a mistake, as if the future is not uncertain and we already know which option was the best one. As his argument is based on two preseason games in a context where the player was always taken based on what he could be further on, and not now, and because of his own scouting report that might be by far the most pessimistic I have ever read on Marner. And that from a poster with a clear attachment to the other option.

He deserved to get called out.

Most posters on this board are capable of patience.

The impatient people just tend to be more vocal.

Yeah I was a bit unfair. My bitterness shone through.

we can be as patient as we like , it Still doesn't mean a prospect will pan out

we were patient with Biggs/Ryan/Blacker/Ross among many others and they all busted so playing the patient card every time a prospect under performs means nothing

Marner needs to fill out and get stronger , if he doesn't this pick won't look good in a couple of years .

and no not every 18 year old grows enough to gain the adequate strength to play at a high level in the NHL

Thing is that adequate strength is not something that is set in stone. If your size and strength is what you have to rely on, you need to be much stronger than the agile, explosive guy with quick decision-making.

Of course if Marner doesn't become stronger on his skate, stronger in general and most importantly, more explosive, then he'll be in trouble. But that means that we see zero growth more from him, and that would be highly surprising.

 

[ACC1224]

I think there's a difference there as well. I'd guess that management made a decision well aware that they are just picking the option with the better chance to become a better player, in their point of view. But well aware that it is still about chance.

That's exactly why the pick was made.

 

[morph]

we can be as patient as we like , it Still doesn't mean a prospect will pan out

we were patient with Biggs/Ryan/Blacker/Ross among many others and they all busted so playing the patient card every time a prospect under performs means nothing

Marner needs to fill out and get stronger , if he doesn't this pick won't look good in a couple of years .

and no not every 18 year old grows enough to gain the adequate strength to play at a high level in the NHL

Look there's a lot of bogus information on bodybuilding circulating around but putting on 15 -20 lbs in a full year is very achievable. He's 164 lbs, not a 115 lb - hard gaining ectomorph. Mcdavid is 187 lbs in comparison.

The way I see it
-Marner is 1-2 years max from being physically ready to play in the NHL. His physical readiness shouldn't be an issue. The NHL isn't a powerlifting where you need 15+ years to stack on muscle and strength. There's a tradeoff between strength and agility that needs to be considered.
-Transitioning to the center position, and playing a more mature and cool game is the much larger developmental hurdle.
-He has a very high ceiling, a high hockey IQ, good tools, and that's why I think drafting him was the correct decision, but he's not at this juncture NHL ready.
-Most people on here felt Marner>Strome before the draft : http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1900161.

 

[theIceWookie]

it's a no win thing tommy

someone speaks their mind now and they are told, "sheesh shut up and wait, you don't know, you can't see into the future"

and when they wait to see how things flush out (say like the first kessel trade) , they are told "sheesh, shut up, that was so 4 years ago and hind sight is 20/20 blah blah.

hell, folks around here are told to shut up and have threads closed about things and players 1 or 2 weeks after the event, ( like it's soooo yesterdays news and not worthy)


hehe even the mods get into it , they lock up season prediction threads when they are brought up near the end of the year, then I have to ask WTH is the point of those threads to begin with?

Lol that's a nice way to spin it. Most people you claim "speak their mind" just rail and rant with little to back up what they are saying. It would be much different if they took the time to explain their point of view. They rarely do, and then they claim similar things to what you're saying above (though I think most of the time you personally tend to try and back up your arguments though I may disagree with them). And the one's you claim that later on just spin things more, well you're not wrong, but usually those posters similarily have little to back up their arguments.

 

[Leviathan899]

Holy **** bro I sure hope you got your resume mailed to every NHL team. You can project a prospect after 2 preseason games?!?!

Please don't show yourself out. You've got a lot to tell us if you already know these things about Marner.

To be fair, 2 pre season games don't mean a whole lot, but when it comes to scouts, they don't have to watch a guy 50 times before they can come to conclusions and have their own opinion. Not many scouts will watch a guy more than 4-5 times in a year, and these are the ones who are making the decisions at the draft table. I'm sure Marner was watched a heckuva lot more last year because he was with London.

All of you are piling on him because he said the Leafs made a mistake, at least he is raising the other side of the coin, which is much better than reading post after post about how special Marner is and how he just needs to get a little stronger, like any of you even know anything. Let me ask you, did any of you even know who he was or anything before he ripped it up last year? I seriously doubt it, and these are the people defending him the most. Stop, he doesn't need it, nor want it I assume.

 

[theIceWookie]

Thanks for the work.

Yup that was my point exactly, that while he was in great company this past year as his PPG numbers in comparison to his peers was impressive by saying he did as well or better than Stamkos, Tavares, Hall or Seguin etc in their draft year which warranted the high draft pick in a strong draft year.

However being sent back the 18-19 year old post draft +1 year crew drops significantly in talent level of those not good enough to make it their 1st year. So next year in comparison Corey Locke, Sheldon Keefe, Peter Sarno, Brett MacLean PPG ect. will have a different value in comparing to the past statistically. Generally now falling into a group of smaller skilled players that tore up the OHL in the past.

The drop off is now significant in talent comparison to the past (rather unimpressive comparison class in general) and I was wondering what kind of performance he would need to show progress. The fact he was sent back to junior already changed the dynamics of the stats comparison and the merit of what is signifies.

Marner almost has to improve on his PPG% from last year to this year in the OHL or the story looks a lot different (on paper) to the past particularly when you factor in the strong team he is going to play on.

Explain to me how Marner being sent back changes the dynamics of the stats comparison and the merit of what it signifies.

Nice of you to leave off some pretty significant context of those examples you used.

Brett Maclean - 2nd round pick, not a top 5 pick. Had three seasons of OHL experience before being drafted compared to Marner's two. Also at 6 foot 2, not really comparable to Marner.

Corey Locke - 4th round pick, again not top 5. Also not really comparable in size at 5 foot 9.

Sheldon Keefe - Again, 2nd round pick. Didn't have his offensive production of 2PPG until AFTER being drafted. Might be the only one who compares favorbly size wise.

Peter Sarno - 6th round pick. Size comparable? Sure, but again didn't really have a comparable offensive season until AFTER being drafted.

I love how people are trying to spin this ALREADY as a shot against Marner. It's contexual, the guy is severly undersized weight wise, him going back has little to with skills and more to do with physical growth. He has the talent that had him drafted top 5, which many past "smaller skilled players" never had basically making those comparables useless at this point (not to mention at 5 foot 11, he's hardly smaller lol).

A much better example, and it's not perfect since this kind of thing is pretty rare and really doesn't have much precedent, is Jonathan Huberdeau. 3rd overall, sent back for BOTH his post draft CHL eligible seasons. Was quite thin when he was drafted (although he's two inches taller), similar to Marner. Seemed to serve him well, as he passed 50 points last season and looks poised to make the 4th year jump in production that's common with yonng players.

 

[Mess]

This thread is almost full .. New Marner thread is up.

/Closed