Prospect Info: Marner Magic about to take OHL by kNight -All purpose thread

[Peasy]

Someone on Red dit said during the game they said Marner is up to 180lbs. I find that extremely hard to believe. Can anyone confirm? I remember them saying Brown was up to 182 lbs, but didnt hear anything about Marner.

 

[Stephen23]

Someone on Red dit said during the game they said Marner is up to 180lbs. I find that extremely hard to believe. Can anyone confirm? I remember them saying Brown was up to 182 lbs, but didnt hear anything about Marner.

I saw Marner in person twice when they were in Halifax for training camp. He was taller then me, just hasn't developed physically yet. I would guess that he was between 160-165 pounds.

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

He's obviously way overmatched physically against NHL calibre players but we all knew that...My guess is that he'll spend the year in junior and next year in the AHL before he is physically ready to play full time for the Leafs...I could see him getting a taste of 9 games or so in 2017.

 

[Pookie]

If folks wanted an 18 yr old who could step into the league, then the team needs to take aim at that right from the start of the season.

Shanny's misjudgement last year is why Buffalo has Eichel and we have Marner. Who will be good and just needs time.

 

[Nithoniniel]

If folks wanted an 18 yr old who could step into the league, then the team needs to take aim at that right from the start of the season.

Shanny's misjudgement last year is why Buffalo has Eichel and we have Marner. Who will be good and just needs time.

I don't agree with your premise.

If Shanahan had aimed at a rebuild right from the start, he'd have come in from the outside with little real knowledge about the problems of the team and made decisions based on gut feeling. Do we really want an impulsive, hasty President of your hockey team?

Shanahan would have been misjudging if he evaluated and then thought the team could have been saved. He did not misjudge because he actually wanted to evaluate and not just make rash decisions.

It's a question of having a hands-on President that is deliberate, patient and thorough or one that is impulsive and rash. And I'd take the foremost even if the latter had taken a chance on what's needed and been right. We might not have ended up last anyway, and that way to go about things is just highly volatile.

 

[Liminality]

I don't agree with your premise.

If Shanahan had aimed at a rebuild right from the start, he'd have come in from the outside with little real knowledge about the problems of the team and made decisions based on gut feeling. Do we really want an impulsive, hasty President of your hockey team?

Shanahan would have been misjudging if he evaluated and then thought the team could have been saved. He did not misjudge because he actually wanted to evaluate and not just make rash decisions.

It's a question of having a hands-on President that is deliberate, patient and thorough or one that is impulsive and rash. And I'd take the foremost even if the latter had taken a chance on what's needed and been right. We might not have ended up last anyway, and that way to go about things is just highly volatile.

Exactly times 100. This came up so often when people wanted Shanahan to trade players before the season even began. He needs to make decisions for himself to see what he had and what he could use.

 

[Mess]

Babcock in his post game PC when asked said Marner was "Okay". He said he played better this game than the last one, and that he wanted the puck more, which he felt was a good sign of progress in confidence out there.

 

[Atomos2]

Babcock in his post game PC when asked said Marner was "Okay". He said he played better this game than the last one, and that he wanted the puck more, which he felt was a good sign of progress in confidence out there.

I doubt Babcock would criticize Marner in his first training camp. At least not to the media. Being positive in this situation when it looks like a young player is overwhelmed by everything is probably the best thing he can do.

 

[-DeMo-]

He's obviously way overmatched physically against NHL calibre players but we all knew that...My guess is that he'll spend the year in junior and next year in the AHL before he is physically ready to play full time for the Leafs...I could see him getting a taste of 9 games or so in 2017.

I don't think Marner can play in the AHL for atleast 2 more years. if he doesn't make the Leafs next year he will have to go back to London.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I watched the first period and went walleye fishing for a hour and a half or so before catching the last couple minutes of the game. Marner looked like he had some nice jump and had some drive going.

Looked better than ok in pursuit of the puck both ways. Babs is smart enough not to hype him up before leaf nation i could guess.

Personally i have seen a kid thats learning and trying to play it safe. Not the same instinctive offensive drive because he is thinking new stuff. Just not as instinctively reactive.

Normal expected stuff.

 

[Stephen]

Depending on how he matures and grows this year, there may be no choice but to let him spend another two years in the OHL. Claude Giroux did that so there's nothing wrong with that route.

 

[Pookie]

I don't agree with your premise.

If Shanahan had aimed at a rebuild right from the start, he'd have come in from the outside with little real knowledge about the problems of the team and made decisions based on gut feeling. Do we really want an impulsive, hasty President of your hockey team?

Shanahan would have been misjudging if he evaluated and then thought the team could have been saved. He did not misjudge because he actually wanted to evaluate and not just make rash decisions.

It's a question of having a hands-on President that is deliberate, patient and thorough or one that is impulsive and rash. And I'd take the foremost even if the latter had taken a chance on what's needed and been right. We might not have ended up last anyway, and that way to go about things is just highly volatile.

We've been down this road before together haven't we?

Shanahan came in in May. The season started in October.

Within 2 months, Shanahan fired Nonis' assistants and gave him an assistant GM he wasn't asking for. He then put his own guy in charge of scouting. Of the office purge this offseason, his hires remained.

Those aren't the moves of an evaluator… those are the moves of a person trying to implement his vision. An evaluator wouldn't have thrown out those resources until he was sure that they weren't a good fit. Shanahan made that determination in about 2 months…. without a game being played… and set the direction for the club.

In the end, I'm fine that we are here. Fine that we have Marner. My point was directed to those that thought an 18 year old could step in right away. Generally speaking, only 2 of those guys were available last year and we farted around while Buffalo was getting the guarantee.

This isn't a pro or anti-tank comment simply saying that if you want the guarantee you have to tank. We didn't from the get go but did eventually. If we want a guarantee this year, it will be even tougher so best start on that plan early.

 

[Menzinger]

Depending on how he matures and grows this year, there may be no choice but to let him spend another two years in the OHL. Claude Giroux did that so there's nothing wrong with that route.

If course. Some prospects simply need a bit more time to develop - for some it's physical, some it's skill.

Overall it's am not a race. Making the NHL out of a draft class doesn't make them the better NHLer in 5 years.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

If folks wanted an 18 yr old who could step into the league, then the team needs to take aim at that right from the start of the season.

Shanny's misjudgement last year is why Buffalo has Eichel and we have Marner. Who will be good and just needs time.

I said this before but i will put it out there again. I believe Marner should put up a similar points per game to Eichel over their careers. I am pumped to have Marner and when he is strong enough he could be a superstar alongside Eichel and Connor from this past draft.

I can't find anything wrong with having him.

 

[Mess]

Depending on how he matures and grows this year, there may be no choice but to let him spend another two years in the OHL. Claude Giroux did that so there's nothing wrong with that route.

Agreed, players are like snowflakes and everyone is different and develop at different rates.

When Kadri and Nylander also top 10 picks were taken they made an immediate impact in their first impressions in Leaf jerseys by having strong rookie tournaments then impressing management in exhibition games and were among the very last cuts.

Marner seems a step behind them on first impact impressions and struggled in the rookie tournament at times and then fairly quiet in the main camp and its quite easy to see he isn't ready for the NHL physically or mentally at this point. So it appears he will take longer in the oven developing that other high picks.

The good thing its not a race, so faster to the NHL does not mean better necessarily in the long run, so its not a criticism of Marner only an observation that his starting point at present seems to be behind other comparables of the past.

Giroux took 2 1/2 years post draft to make the NHL permanently and now he is better then players drafted ahead of him, but it took patience to reap the rewards.

 

[Ash35]

Babcock in his post game PC when asked said Marner was "Okay". He said he played better this game than the last one, and that he wanted the puck more, which he felt was a good sign of progress in confidence out there.

I just watched Babcock say he was "way" better than he was the first night.

https://youtu.be/o6J8OAYYea8

 

[Falon]

Agreed, players are like snowflakes and everyone is different and develop at different rates.

When Kadri and Nylander also top 10 picks were taken they made an immediate impact in their first impressions in Leaf jerseys by having strong rookie tournaments then impressing management in exhibition games and were among the very last cuts.

Marner seems a step behind them on first impact impressions and struggled in the rookie tournament at times and then fairly quiet in the main camp and its quite easy to see he isn't ready for the NHL physically or mentally at this point. So it appears he will take longer in the oven developing that other high picks.

The good thing its not a race, so faster to the NHL does not mean better necessarily in the long run, so its not a criticism of Marner only an observation that his starting point at present seems to be behind other comparables of the past.

Giroux took 2 1/2 years post draft to make the NHL permanently and now he is better then players drafted ahead of him, but it took patience to reap the rewards.

We don't even have to go that far back to see a great example. Ryan Johansson was picked 4th overall just a few years ago and he HAD the size. It still took him a few years to round out his game before he made it.

 

[ULF_55]

I just watched Babcock say he was "way" better than he was the first night.

He was okay, and way better than the first game?

My interpretation is he was not okay the first game, if he was way better and just okay.

Call the game not the hype.

Greg Miller called it correctly, no one really stepped up last night from the prospects forcing any tough decisions.

 

[Ash35]

He was okay, and way better than the first game?

My interpretation is he was not okay the first game, if he was way better and just okay.

Call the game not the hype.

Greg Miller called it correctly, no one really stepped up last night from the prospects forcing any tough decisions.

I thought Millen was overly critical. Say he did nothing for him to notice marner. I thought Marner did standout quite a few times during the night. I noticed him way more then I did Rhinehart.

 

[waingr0]

Babcock in his post game PC when asked said Marner was "Okay". He said he played better this game than the last one, and that he wanted the puck more, which he felt was a good sign of progress in confidence out there.

I just watched Babcock say he was "way" better than he was the first night.

https://youtu.be/o6J8OAYYea8 - (3:42 in the video)

Mess thought Marner was "Okay".

 

[ULF_55]

Mess thought Marner was "Okay".

True.

So being way better isn't saying he was okay.

You can be way better and not be okay.

 

[Semantics]

He's obviously way overmatched physically against NHL calibre players but we all knew that...My guess is that he'll spend the year in junior and next year in the AHL before he is physically ready to play full time for the Leafs...I could see him getting a taste of 9 games or so in 2017.

He can't play in the AHL this year or next.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I just watched Babcock say he was "way" better than he was the first night.

https://youtu.be/o6J8OAYYea8

Shhhhh....

You're screwing up the narrative.

 

[Semantics]

I thought Millen was overly critical. Say he did nothing for him to notice marner. I thought Marner did standout quite a few times during the night. I noticed him way more then I did Rhinehart.

Not a surprise, Millen and Romanuk were too busy yapping about inane and irrelevant stuff or advertising for the Blue Jays to pay any attention to the game. There was one play where Marner danced around a couple of guys in the corner and set up a chance and those idiots were droning on about something completely unrelated and boring.

 

[Ash35]

True.

So being way better isn't saying he was okay.

You can be way better and not be okay.

I just don't think he was that bad in the first game for way better to be just ok. Bob McGill and I few others I recall said he played great in the first game. I didn't think he played great. I though he was nervous the first half and pretty good the second.