Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion

[Notsince67]

Ok. After the shoulder injury they had the same PPG.

Why don’t you show me which cherry picked stat you want to use.

I literally picked starting with marners 4 pt and 5 pt games as starting points.
Both times Matthews had a way higher GPG and slightly higher ppg.

Despite injuries.

Show me what you mean? Or is it the mono factor?

Cherry picked? Does Marner need a 90+ point streak on day 1 with a new line to gain your respect? A few games should be in order, no?

 

[Notsince67]

Since Matthews has played all 82 games during his rookie season I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and I say he can do that again.

I hope so

 

[Notsince67]

In the past 2 years, Matthews has:
- played 34 fewer games than Marner,
- has not had the privilege of Tavares on his line at 5v5, and
- has 27 fewer points but 23 more goals

Given that it's much easier to rack up assists than goals, it should be sobering to see Matthews be so close to Marner given how bad Nylander is.

Really now. Tape to tape tap ins from Marner to Tavares arent skill? All the goals missed by Tavares that were perfect set ups by Marner are not captured in the stats. You actually need to watch the games to understand the impact Marner had with and without the puck to understand. I am not sure how this sport developed fans that refuse to look at the games before spouting off nonsense

 

[Mess]

This year Marner played for $875k ELC and put up in 82 games 26 goals 68 assists 94 points.

How much will he produce next year when he is making ~ $10 mil?

The reasonable answer would be about the same 90-100 points, if he continues to play with a #1C and on the #1PP unit.

So the only thing that is going to impact the Leafs is not his production, but his actual cap hit in that Leafs will need to be dumping $9 mil off the roster to accommodate his raise.

Letting Gardiner walk (-$4.05 mil) + dealing Kadri for futures (-$4.5 mil) for cap reasons and replacing them on the roster with Calle Rosen and Nic Petan as regulars would be an example.

So are the Leafs stronger with 95 point Marner ($875k) + Gardiner + #3c Kadri OR 95 point Marner (@$10 mil) + Rosen + #3C Petan for the same # of players and cap hit?

Rinse and repeat that thought process from Matthews moving from $975k to $11.643 mil.

If the Leafs were not good enough to advance past the 1st round with all hands on deck this year while AM and MM where making <$2 mil, then how will cup competitiveness increase if the team is stripping down the roster to accommodate their raises when making > $22 mil?

 

[18leafsfan18]

This year Marner played for $875k ELC and put up in 82 games 26 goals 68 assists 94 points.

How much will he produce next year when he is making ~ $10 mil?

The reasonable answer would be about the same 90-100 points, if he continues to play with a #1C and on the #1PP unit.

So the only thing that is going to impact the Leafs is not his production, but his actual cap hit in that Leafs will need to be dumping $9 mil off the roster to accommodate his raise.

Letting Gardiner walk (-$4.05 mil) + dealing Kadri for futures (-$4.5 mil) for cap reasons and replacing them on the roster with Calle Rosen and Nic Petan as regulars would be an example.

So are the Leafs stronger with 95 point Marner ($875k) + Gardiner + #3c Kadri OR 95 point Marner (@$10 mil) + Rosen + #3C Petan for the same # of players and cap hit?

Rinse and repeat that thought process from Matthews moving from $975k to $11.643 mil.

If the Leafs were not good enough to advance past the 1st round with all hands on deck this year while AM and MM where making <$2 mil, then how will cup competitiveness increase if the team is stripping down the roster to accommodate their raises?.

You realize they played the first round against a team that is 1 game away from the Cup Finals ?

Generally a lot of teams don't get 2 players of this skill in their ELC. So your saying the Leafs will be worse off than other teams because their players were too good when they were young ?

 

[Notsince67]

If Hyman wasn’t cleared to play he wouldn’t have been playing. The ACL narrative has to stop. Hyman has been a top PKer for this team. Put blame where it belongs. Marner is a terrible penalty killer.

Marner is one of the most talented pkers in the league. If you are too lazy to look up the reasons why people are saying this, then accept the fact that you are beclowning yourself.
8th in CA/60, 5th in FA/60, 1st in SA/60, 7th in GA/60, 7th in SCA/60, 5th in HDCA/60. Among all forwards with at least 80 minutes of PK time

 

[Menzinger]

Thank god social media wasn't around during the Clark, Gilmour days. Can just imagine trashing one to build up another.

Whose trashing Marner in here?

Again, saying that hes not the best player on the team, or worthy of being the highest paid winger in the entire NHL isnt a criticism of the guy....

 

[Menzinger]

Marner is a passer. He can't kill penalties. He improved by 25 points by playing with Tavares. Tavares improved by 4 points.

I think this is a huge problem with Leaf nation. They are too emotionally invested in their players. He HAS NEVER made anyone a better player. He's made them different players. A shooter instead of a passer.

Theres a small group of folks here (and on twitter) that seem to think anything short calling Marner the best winger in the league is some sort of horrible insult to the guy.

Theres also some interesting overlap here of the folks who tend to not give Matthew's the respect he deserves...

 

[Mr Hockey]

Marner is a terrible penalty killer? I think just his presence alone on the PK worried teams, great at stealing the puck from lazy players.

 

[ULF_55]

On HF you never wait to judge a contract and then you just change your mind later, like Drai going from the worst contract in the history of sport to a great contract.

Well, not everyone is up late enough to watch all the Oilers games so they probably were just ignorant, and missed his Stafford Smythe Memorial Trophy.

 

[Durrr]

Only bad because of the amount being shelled out by this GM to players not getting out of round one.

Sigh, that's literally irrelevant at this point.

 

[Durrr]

Well, then the entire management team should be fired.

This past year went PRECISELY as most hockey fans thought it would in regards tos Nylander vs Pastrnak. And it’s only going to get worse from here...

Yeah, not really. Hindsight bias is a powerful drug.

 

[Legion34]

Cherry picked? Does Marner need a 90+ point streak on day 1 with a new line to gain your respect? A few games should be in order, no?

You said Marner had a much higher Ppg than matthews in 2017-2018 over a given time frame.

I’m asking when that was. I don’t see it

 

[DarkKnight]

Whose trashing Marner in here?

Again, saying that hes not the best player on the team, or worthy of being the highest paid winger in the entire NHL isnt a criticism of the guy....

Again, zero critical eye from you with "other" player. It's funny you are here, and I'm not disputing, but perhaps some consistency would help with credibility.

 

[Deebo]

This year Marner played for $875k ELC and put up in 82 games 26 goals 68 assists 94 points.

How much will he produce next year when he is making ~ $10 mil?

The reasonable answer would be about the same 90-100 points, if he continues to play with a #1C and on the #1PP unit.

So the only thing that is going to impact the Leafs is not his production, but his actual cap hit in that Leafs will need to be dumping $9 mil off the roster to accommodate his raise.

Letting Gardiner walk (-$4.05 mil) + dealing Kadri for futures (-$4.5 mil) for cap reasons and replacing them on the roster with Calle Rosen and Nic Petan as regulars would be an example.

So are the Leafs stronger with 95 point Marner ($875k) + Gardiner + #3c Kadri OR 95 point Marner (@$10 mil) + Rosen + #3C Petan for the same # of players and cap hit?

Rinse and repeat that thought process from Matthews moving from $975k to $11.643 mil.

If the Leafs were not good enough to advance past the 1st round with all hands on deck this year while AM and MM where making <$2 mil, then how will cup competitiveness increase if the team is stripping down the roster to accommodate their raises when making > $22 mil?

Good thing 14.1M of dead cap space will be clearing over the next 2 seasons.

 

[Menzinger]

Again, zero critical eye from you with "other" player. It's funny you are here, and I'm not disputing, but perhaps some consistency would help with credibility.

This is nonsense.

You're the one who keeps fixating on Nylander in this thread.

I tend talk more about Nylanders positives because of the sheer volume of garbage hot takes that get thrown at him. That's all. Marner has more than enough folks trying to do that here

 

[4chandler]

Don't match 'the offer sheet' then go after Laine?

Peg matches then offersheet Trouba

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Yeah, not really. Hindsight bias is a powerful drug.

Hindsight? Look at the Nylander contract discussion threads when he was sitting out.

There were PLENTY of us none “blue and white” glasses objective fans that were SCREAMING that Nylander’s isn’t half the player Pastrnak is.

Maybe you shouldn’t pay a proven 20 goal/60 point player the same as another team paid their proven 34/70 point player. Yeah, imagine f***ing that. It’s worked out so far PRECISELY how reasonable fans knew it would.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Don't match 'the offer sheet' then go after Laine?

Peg matches then offersheet Trouba

Trouba would really help us a lot (his style is what we really need) but he wants to play in the States so his heart would never be into us

 

[Lauro]

This year Marner played for $875k ELC and put up in 82 games 26 goals 68 assists 94 points.

How much will he produce next year when he is making ~ $10 mil?

The reasonable answer would be about the same 90-100 points, if he continues to play with a #1C and on the #1PP unit.

So the only thing that is going to impact the Leafs is not his production, but his actual cap hit in that Leafs will need to be dumping $9 mil off the roster to accommodate his raise.

Letting Gardiner walk (-$4.05 mil) + dealing Kadri for futures (-$4.5 mil) for cap reasons and replacing them on the roster with Calle Rosen and Nic Petan as regulars would be an example.

So are the Leafs stronger with 95 point Marner ($875k) + Gardiner + #3c Kadri OR 95 point Marner (@$10 mil) + Rosen + #3C Petan for the same # of players and cap hit?

Rinse and repeat that thought process from Matthews moving from $975k to $11.643 mil.

If the Leafs were not good enough to advance past the 1st round with all hands on deck this year while AM and MM where making <$2 mil, then how will cup competitiveness increase if the team is stripping down the roster to accommodate their raises when making > $22 mil?

You forgot that these young players will mature. And that they had the SC Final Bruins on the brink of elimination. And that they played without Kadri and 100 % healthy Gardiner this year too. And and and ...

 

[Metroid]

Good thing 14.1M of dead cap space will be clearing over the next 2 seasons.

This.
We will be fine.

 

[Durrr]

Hindsight? Look at the Nylander contract discussion threads when he was sitting out.

There were PLENTY of us none “blue and white” glasses objective fans that were SCREAMING that Nylander’s isn’t half the player Pastrnak is.

Maybe you shouldn’t pay a proven 20 goal/60 point player the same as another team paid their proven 34/70 point player. Yeah, imagine ****ing that. It’s worked out so far PRECISELY how reasonable fans knew it would.

And yet you are pretending like you knew Nylander would have a 40pt season. You literally had no idea, you took a wild guess based on your perception of a player, and it turned out to be correct based on a string of fluid variables. Doesn't mean you knew what the lottery numbers were before you won the jackpot. It's called hindsight. It's the same as my friend who wouldnt shut up about Carolina being a better built team then the Leafs because they made the conference finals. How does that look now?

Nothing you just adhered to is actually reasonable, it's actually extremely pessimistic to take a 22 year old 60 point player and pretend its reasonable to think he'd do worse then that in his 3rd full year in the league.

The odds that Nylander had a 40pt season were probably less then the odds he had a 70+ pt season on this team, and I don't think it would even be close.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

You said Marner had a much higher Ppg than matthews in 2017-2018 over a given time frame.

I’m asking when that was. I don’t see it

Well.... this IS cherry picked.... but... Dec, Feb, and March.

Marner is one of the most talented pkers in the league. If you are too lazy to look up the reasons why people are saying this, then accept the fact that you are beclowning yourself.
8th in CA/60, 5th in FA/60, 1st in SA/60, 7th in GA/60, 7th in SCA/60, 5th in HDCA/60. Among all forwards with at least 80 minutes of PK time

Those stats don't count.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

This year Marner played for $875k ELC and put up in 82 games 26 goals 68 assists 94 points.

How much will he produce next year when he is making ~ $10 mil?

The reasonable answer would be about the same 90-100 points, if he continues to play with a #1C and on the #1PP unit.

So the only thing that is going to impact the Leafs is not his production, but his actual cap hit in that Leafs will need to be dumping $9 mil off the roster to accommodate his raise.

Letting Gardiner walk (-$4.05 mil) + dealing Kadri for futures (-$4.5 mil) for cap reasons and replacing them on the roster with Calle Rosen and Nic Petan as regulars would be an example.

So are the Leafs stronger with 95 point Marner ($875k) + Gardiner + #3c Kadri OR 95 point Marner (@$10 mil) + Rosen + #3C Petan for the same # of players and cap hit?

Rinse and repeat that thought process from Matthews moving from $975k to $11.643 mil.

If the Leafs were not good enough to advance past the 1st round with all hands on deck this year while AM and MM where making <$2 mil, then how will cup competitiveness increase if the team is stripping down the roster to accommodate their raises when making > $22 mil?

You act like the team needs to get better to make it past the 1st round, but really the wind just needed to blow in a slightly different direction.

Also those kids will get better. We’ll get different tides of players on ELCs filling the gap, and we’ll save a sliver of cap space that will add up to some deadline acquisitions. Nothing to fear. We’re going to be a very good team for a very long time.

 

[The CyNick]

Are you referring to the other bad contract as Tavares? Please clarify.

Matthews signed to the equivalent of $13.5M cap over 8 years vs McDavid (undisputed best player in the league) signed to a $12.5M deal over 8 years.

Nylander paid like a 30 goal scorer when he's currently a 10 goal scorer.

Those deals will ensure Marner gets somewhere in the range of Matthews, which will also be an overpayment. Especially when both guys could have been had for $9M per.