Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion

[Legion34]

Look i'm, as pissed as the next fan about Marner being unreasonable with his contract, but calling him anything short of an elite first line winger, who plays all special teams WELL is laughable.

Stop bashing the guy. If he gets traded oh well. It will hurt but we've all been through it before. At least this time we will hopefully be on the otherside of this kind of trade (Like when Boston traded a same age Kessel as Marner for a #1 C and top pairing D).

We'll get value for him. Or he will take a deal that is offered and you will all look dumb for flip flopping back into him being elite.

No one is bashing the guy. He is a great player. He is one of the best playmaking wingers in the game. He was 11th in scoring. Which in a 600 player league is pretty freaking special.

He is flashy and exciting. Which makes some people think he is better than he is. Because flopping like you got shot in a bad western to block a simple shot makes people think they are better than he is.

No one is saying he isn’t great. But he’s not as good as Matthews. and shouldn’t be paid as much. That’s it.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You think that Leafs management looked at Zaitsev and saw potential in the same way Buffalo did with Eichel? Lol.

You think that Leafs management looked at Nylander and saw potential in the same way Boston did with Pastrnak? Lol.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Really doesn't surprise me that you say the Leafs traded A top C and a top D for Kessel.

The leafs traded draft picks, not players. If they had Hamilton and Seguin on their team that trade wouldn't have happened.

No he didn't trade for the players, but it's like you missed the point of the post. The point is that those started with draft picks, and for Marner to leave we'd be getting 4 of them, or equivalent value in a trade.

 

[18leafsfan18]

No he didn't trade for the players, but it's like you missed the point of the post. The point is that those started with draft picks, and for Marner to leave we'd be getting 4 of them, or equivalent value in a trade.

Not what your post said in any way but I guess I just didn't understand that.

 

[biotk]

You think that Leafs management looked at Nylander and saw potential in the same way Boston did with Pastrnak? Lol.

I would hope so. If Leafs management were even half as reactionary as part of the fan base is the team would finish dead last every year.

 

[biotk]

Hasn't signed a bad one yet. Can't really judge those 2 based on 4 months of playing can you ?

On HF you never wait to judge a contract and then you just change your mind later, like Drai going from the worst contract in the history of sport to a great contract.

 

[Fakejake51]

How is the Kadri deal not a good one? Please explain.

Because he’s a boat anchor?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Kadri is a boat anchor
Marner can only pass

Who IS a good player Minus?

 

[biotk]

Yeah, leafs are sure winning the Nylander vs Pastrnak comparison right now. Last year, one was o. Pace for 45 goals/100 points, and the other 10/40. All for the same cap percentage. Talk about bang for your buck.

Go leafs go. Keep up the good work.

The kind of reactionary nonsense that I expect from you. And how two players played this season has almost nothing to do with potential.

One of those players played on a team and with a coach that did everything to maximize the player's production and potential - played almost all of his time with Marchand and Bergeron both at 5v5 and on the PP - where he had massive minutes.

The other player, pretty much the opposite.

 

[Fakejake51]

Kadri is a boat anchor
Marner can only pass

Who IS a good player Minus?

John Tavares. Morgan Rielly. Falling in love with players is for 12 year olds. Winning a cup is for men.

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

Because he signed two bad ones and then he's about to sign another bad one with Marner.

And that's not to mention the bad decisions regarding acquiring players.

Are you referring to the other bad contract as Tavares? Please clarify.

 

[egd27]

Lou Lamoriello. Our 2 bad contracts are Lou.

Why does Dubas get a bad rep for this?

Lou's gone, Dubas is the GM now

Dubas gets a good or bad reputation based on how he deals with the present situation.

You either cry over the spilled milk or you clean it up. (and we have enough fans crying about it)

 

[Mess]

When the Marner deal is completed then GM Dubas will have signed the 4 highest paid/AAV Leafs and they will consume about 1/2 of Leafs total team salary cap amount.

It will be those 4 big contracts that will be a strain on team depth and competitiveness going forward, with many hockey experts stating its hard to imagine how making that work if the goal is to be competitive. The media will heavily scrutinize this never before tried strategy in a salary cap world.

The way to alleviate that situation would be to deal either on of the wingers Marner or Nylander for cap stress relief and improving depth and other positions.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

When the Marner deal is completed then GM Dubas will have signed the 4 highest paid/AAV Leafs and they will consume about 1/2 of Leafs total team salary cap amount.

It will be those 4 big contracts that will be a strain on team depth and competitiveness going forward, with many hockey experts stating its hard to imagine how making that work if the goal is to be competitive. The media will heavily scrutinize this never before tried strategy in a salary cap world.

The way to alleviate that situation would be to deal either on of the wingers Marner or Nylander for cap stress relief and improving depth and other positions.

Many "hockey experts" panned Dundon getting rid of Francis and Peters as disrespectful to hockey, predicting that a billionaire owner would never succeed in the NHL where you have to have played the game to possibly have a chance to succeed.

"Hockey experts" also thought Ovechkin could never captain a team to the cup.

"Hockey experts" believed Vegas would be horrible.

I could go on....

A "hockey expert" is great at one thing....retrospective analysis. In reality, in a league with this much parity, they are about as good at predicting what's going to happen as my dog is.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

It's insane. People are giving Marner waaaay too much credit for Tavares. Sure Tavares had more goals this year. But Tavares is a line driving machine and chameleon who does whatever it takes to make his linemates better. If Tavares has linemates who are shooters, he becomes a passer. This year he had a passer, so he became a shooter. And make no mistake, Tavares has done that his whole career. It's the mark of a truly elite player.

But playing with Marner did not raise his point totals significantly over the previous season. And this is a constant....since he entered the league, no one has had a significantly better statistical season playing with Marner than they did the preceding season before while playing without Marner.

Marner is being given waaaay too much credit for players doing what they would have done without him anyway.

We need to back up the hype train on this kid. He's a playmaking winger like Nylander, so let's use the same arguments for him not getting Matthews money please. Without a 9 goal in 7 game stretch, he's at his career norm of 20ish. Which is not worth 10 million in any league, for any reason......ESPECIALLY because he played with Tavares.

Tavares carried Marner to 8 more points than JTs career high.........

If we take out Matthews first 6 games he scores 27 goals....Take out a 7th and 25. lol what? What kind of wizardry is this?

Matthews is only a 25 goal scorer guys..... damn, that 11.6 is gonna hurt. Pack 'er in.

 

[Durrr]

Also remember that after the July 1st signing bonus this year, Matthews makes just over 8 million per in real money over the 5 years.

For teams in better cap situations than the leafs (pretty much every team) it’s a good bargain. Even as dramatically overpaid, the leafs could get a ton for Matthews. More realistically probably a 2 C and 1D. Which would be fine.

No, it wouldn't be fine. Our 1C would be almost 30, and our center depth shot. You don't draft a 1st overall like Matthews to trade him, period.

He'll be a Leaf as long as he wants to be one.

 

[Durrr]

Well, there are 1st. line centers and 1st. line centers. If Matthews really is a franchise level, perhaps generational (haven't seen that yet), teams could trade regular 1st. line centers and regular 1 pairing defenders for them.

Leafs with 3 salaries adding up to 35 million is going to be hamstrung.

He's not getting traded. Said this to the other reply, but you don't get the luck and the privilege to draft 1st overall and take a guy like Matthews, and ever trade him. Period. None of this "oh we could get 2 decent players instead of one good one!!" nonsense. There's a reason why not a single 1st overall (who panned out) in this league has been traded since the cap era started.

Again, Matthews will be a Leaf until he no longer wants to be one, and not before.

 

[Mess]

A "hockey expert" is great at one thing....retrospective analysis. In reality, in a league with this much parity, they are about as good at predicting what's going to happen as my dog is.

That's actually the point, with this much parity in the NHL when one team spends irregularly with too much $$ on too few players ,they might be taking/spending themselves out of the parity situation.

Its a teams depth not only its stars that carry a team, and every team has 4-5 really good players at least the ones included in that parity group for a playoff spot and considered cup competitive.

Leafs are cannibalizing their own depth, by paying Matthews, JT and soon Marner among the top 10 highest AAV contracts.

 

[Durrr]

Yet the Kadri deal (which most on here think was a good one. Not I) and Rielly, a steal of a deal, were also Lou. Which is it?

He did an okay-to-good job overall? Rielly & Kadri are fantastic contracts, Zietsev is atrocious, and Marleau is bad.

 

[Deebo]

When the Marner deal is completed then GM Dubas will have signed the 4 highest paid/AAV Leafs and they will consume about 1/2 of Leafs total team salary cap amount.

It will be those 4 big contracts that will be a strain on team depth and competitiveness going forward, with many hockey experts stating its hard to imagine how making that work if the goal is to be competitive. The media will heavily scrutinize this never before tried strategy in a salary cap world.

The way to alleviate that situation would be to deal either on of the wingers Marner or Nylander for cap stress relief and improving depth and other positions.

Signing contracts doesn't mean you can't move the players but they may have to move a player earlier than they would have wanted to since they have Marleau on the books this year.

 

[Durrr]

That's actually the point, with this much parity in the NHL when one team spends irregularly with too much $$ on too few players ,they might be taking/spending themselves out of the parity situation.

Its a teams depth not only its stars that carry a team, and every team has 4-5 really good players at least the ones included in that parity group for a playoff spot.

This isn't true, but I see you are reminded of that a few times a day on here. Yes depth is key, but all of the actual winners in the past few years have been loaded up on their core. One year isn't going to change that.

 

[Durrr]

You think that Leafs management looked at Nylander and saw potential in the same way Boston did with Pastrnak? Lol.

Yes?

 

[18leafsfan18]

When the Marner deal is completed then GM Dubas will have signed the 4 highest paid/AAV Leafs and they will consume about 1/2 of Leafs total team salary cap amount.

It will be those 4 big contracts that will be a strain on team depth and competitiveness going forward, with many hockey experts stating its hard to imagine how making that work if the goal is to be competitive. The media will heavily scrutinize this never before tried strategy in a salary cap world.

The way to alleviate that situation would be to deal either on of the wingers Marner or Nylander for cap stress relief and improving depth and other positions.

The last 5 stanley cup winners used approx (within 1-2%) the same cap amount on their top 4 players. This isn't a "never before tried strategy" it is literally the strategy all teams use (other then the very rare teams who win without it, maybe one in every 10 years).

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Yes?

Well, then the entire management team should be fired.

This past year went PRECISELY as most hockey fans thought it would in regards tos Nylander vs Pastrnak. And it’s only going to get worse from here...

 

[Fakejake51]

He did an okay-to-good job overall? Rielly & Kadri are fantastic contracts, Zietsev is atrocious, and Marleau is bad.

Only bad because of the amount being shelled out by this GM to players not getting out of round one.