Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion

[Durrr]

I'd say there is no doubt he'll be making more, probably the largest deal for RFA this summer.

If he gets Matthews money, I'd look to trade one of them. I bet you could get a 1st. line center and 1st. pairing defender for Matthews.

Lol the hell....this cannot be serious. No team is going to trade a 1C + 1D on better contracts for a 1C.

You'll end up with a 1st, top D prospect and 2nd, at best. Matthews and Marner are here to stay, their contract wont change that.

 

[18leafsfan18]

either your ignoring why people say he's overpaid or your not on here much

the comparable's most people have stated as the reason he's overpaid at that term is posters are using McD's 12,5 x 8 as the ceiling and Eichel 10 x 8 as the floor

lower term at AM's age has usually meant lower salary because your not buying many ufa's years and your paying a huge premium in the short term but not getting enough of his peak years to justify the short term premium

And where is the evidence of that ?

You are comparing his contract to 2 other contracts that are 8 years. How do you determine how much less his contract should be based on years ?

When comparing him to Eichel and Mcdavid he should make less then McDavid (He does) and more then Eichel (He does).

Maybe a UFA year is only worth 250k ? maybe its worth 3 mil ? Noone has any clue and noone can prove how much its worth. Just a bunch of Dubas haters pulling numbers out of thin air.

Edited: Not to mention, Is McDavid's contract a bargain ? Is Eichel's? It's hard to determine for this level of player

 

[ULF_55]

Shakes head. Has anyone considered shanny has created a culture of safety? We finally have a generational player and we paid him, no dicking around,no pissing him off. Has anyone considered shanny and dubos are trying to be fair? Has Anyone considered they want these boys happy?! We **** all over Matt's, never gave him a winger, drove a Hof d to Detroit for nothing. The amount of bull**** Matthews endures from our clown fanbase is prob worth a bit more. Marner and Matthews should be paid. Guys take less in Florida and down south because they face like two reporters. Am34,Marner and tavares are not a problem. There is pressure in the contract Matthews signed and he delievered in round one. I want these kids happy.

I want the team to win ... players comes and go ... the team will be here for decades.

Not sure why fans wanting their team to win make them clownfaces, but I'm guessing it is a mirror.

 

[Bluelines]

Interesting comment from Shanny, he and Dubas met with Marner's agent today. Shanahan said talk went well and he believes there is a framework possibly coming together.

Would be best for the team the sooner this deal gets done so Dubas can move forward
on other fronts. Fingers crossed!

What if the framework is to trade him ..... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[ShaneFalco]

So hope this gets done quickly

 

[ULF_55]

Lol the hell....this cannot be serious. No team is going to trade a 1C + 1D on better contracts for a 1C.

You'll end up with a 1st, top D prospect and 2nd, at best. Matthews and Marner are here to stay, their contract wont change that.

Well, there are 1st. line centers and 1st. line centers. If Matthews really is a franchise level, perhaps generational (haven't seen that yet), teams could trade regular 1st. line centers and regular 1 pairing defenders for them.

Leafs with 3 salaries adding up to 35 million is going to be hamstrung.

 

[LeafsNation75]

And where is the evidence of that ?

You are comparing his contract to 2 other contracts that are 8 years. How do you determine how much less his contract should be based on years ?

When comparing him to Eichel and Mcdavid he should make less then McDavid (He does) and more then Eichel (He does).

Maybe a UFA year is only worth 250k ? maybe its worth 3 mil ? Noone has any clue and noone can prove how much its worth. Just a bunch of Dubas haters pulling numbers out of thin air.

Edited: Not to mention, Is McDavid's contract a bargain ? Is Eichel's? It's hard to determine for this level of player

I always thought Eichel was overpaid because he signed his contract coming off 24 goals and 33 assists in his second season.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Lol the hell....this cannot be serious. No team is going to trade a 1C + 1D on better contracts for a 1C.

You'll end up with a 1st, top D prospect and 2nd, at best. Matthews and Marner are here to stay, their contract wont change that.

Also remember that after the July 1st signing bonus this year, Matthews makes just over 8 million per in real money over the 5 years.

For teams in better cap situations than the leafs (pretty much every team) it’s a good bargain. Even as dramatically overpaid, the leafs could get a ton for Matthews. More realistically probably a 2 C and 1D. Which would be fine.

 

[diceman934]

No one is offer sheeting either of those guys. Only offer sheets are for make it or break it guys like Point and Marner. If Johnsson persists on holding out as opposed to taking leafs offer then he be traded before/after his arbitration. Kappy will get a deal done with team right after Mitch's deal is done before draft.

Kappy if any Leaf to get an offer sheet. His compensation would be worth far less then he actual value.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I always thought Eichel was overpaid because he signed his contract coming off 24 goals and 33 assists in his second season.

He missed 21 games that season. Its almost as if they paid him because they understand he has potential.

But Leafs management doing that is a problem

 

[Throw More Waffles]

He missed 21 games that season. Its almost as if they paid him because they understand he has potential.

But Leafs management doing that is a problem

Didn’t the leafs try that with Zaitsev? How’s that working out?

 

[Bluelines]

Didn’t the leafs try that with Zaitsev? How’s that working out?

But there is some grey in every negotiation, just because it works out for one guy, it may not work out for another. It worked out well for us with Rielly and Andersen, it's not looking promising for Nyalnder.

Zaitsev was good the 1st year, poor with Jake and good with Muzzin. To pain his contract as a failure would be misleading. The guy was a good defender in Eurpoe, he was not with Jake, he was with Muz. I'm gonna believe pie in the sky that he will be better this year.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

So is the media talking about offer sheets for Johnsson or Kapanen depending on the Leafs cap to create headlines and nothing more?

Yes. Most of the Toronto hockey media is like dumb and dumber. They do not know a puck for a ball. They are in it for the clicks and popularity which they must do to maintain their jobs/incomes. They don't really know the players, the parents, the coaches or the management. They hear and talk political speak. If you want to know what is really going on then show up at camp, go to practices and develop relationships with parents and kids. Many of parents and grandparents hang around the arenas to watch their kids develop. They have been doing it for so many years already. Then you will hear what is really going on around a team. Not all of it will be 100% true but where there is smoke there is usually fire. No one can know what 30 GMs are planning but generally offer sheets are rare. and teams generally match. and then figure out how to make things work afterwards. unless of course there are stupid offers which are extremely rare. there is always a lot of talk because it is good for TV. and it is fun to shoot the sh*t about hockey. GMs will be very leary about any numbers produced by playing with Matty. In fact that is why I think some fool will overvalue Johnsson in the trade market. He is really not a well balanced skater with a short choppy stride.

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

Didn’t the leafs try that with Zaitsev? How’s that working out?

Lou Lamoriello. Our 2 bad contracts are Lou.

Why does Dubas get a bad rep for this?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

But there is some grey in every negotiation, just because it works out for one guy, it may not work out for another. It worked out well for us with Rielly and Andersen, it's not looking promising for Nyalnder.

Zaitsev was good the 1st year, poor with Jake and good with Muzzin. To pain his contract as a failure would be misleading. The guy was a good defender in Eurpoe, he was not with Jake, he was with Muz. I'm gonna believe pie in the sky that he will be better this year.

He is a very good skater. On bigger ice he will play better. In KHL he showed very well. His hands and vision are well lets not go there. His physical play well lets not got there. It is really best we try to unload. We need to improve our defense.

 

[Fakejake51]

I want the team to win ... players comes and go ... the team will be here for decades.

Not sure why fans wanting their team to win make them clownfaces, but I'm guessing it is a mirror.

Here here.

 

[Fakejake51]

Lou Lamoriello. Our 2 bad contracts are Lou.

Why does Dubas get a bad rep for this?

Yet the Kadri deal (which most on here think was a good one. Not I) and Rielly, a steal of a deal, were also Lou. Which is it?

 

[BlueForever75]

Yet the Kadri deal (which most on here think was a good one. Not I) and Rielly, a steal of a deal, were also Lou. Which is it?

How is the Kadri deal not a good one? Please explain.

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

Yet the Kadri deal (which most on here think was a good one. Not I) and Rielly, a steal of a deal, were also Lou. Which is it?

Would prefer to have all contracts be good lol.

Also, RFA culture has changed since then. It really is a recent development that RFAs are getting big ticket deals. Mcdavid and draistl contracts set the bar for this new wave of contracts.

Also, Kadri and Rielly produced better after their contracts and had a different development curve than our big 3 young guns.

If matthews, Nylander and marner didnt perform as well in their ELC it would be a lot easier to get them on sweetheart deals.

 

[biotk]

Maybe a UFA year is only worth 250k ? maybe its worth 3 mil ? Noone has any clue and noone can prove how much its worth. Just a bunch of Dubas haters pulling numbers out of thin air.

Pretty much, although in reality for the top ELCs the UFA years are probably worth zero extra dollars, or rather their post ELC RFA years are worth zero dollars less than UFA years. Among the really good ELC players it seems as though the players who signed big 5 year contracts coming out of their ELCs subsequently signed 8 year contracts as UFAs for lower cap hits than their 5 year RFA signing (Malkin, Stamkos, Crosby - the latter's contract was 12 years). Players who felt (Tavares, Kane) they were underpaid on their 5 (or more) year RFA contracts signed for much higher cap hits for their next contract (and sometimes with a different team).

People think that Matthews will be looking for another huge increase after his 5-years. Perhaps. But that wasn't the case with Malkin or Crosby or Stamkos. It is probably more likely that McDavid, after taking a team friendly deal and watching Edmonton squander that, will be out to break the bank next contract.

 

[biotk]

Didn’t the leafs try that with Zaitsev? How’s that working out?

You think that Leafs management looked at Zaitsev and saw potential in the same way Buffalo did with Eichel? Lol.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Look i'm, as pissed as the next fan about Marner being unreasonable with his contract, but calling him anything short of an elite first line winger, who plays all special teams WELL is laughable.

Stop bashing the guy. If he gets traded oh well. It will hurt but we've all been through it before. At least this time we will hopefully be on the otherside of this kind of trade (Like when Boston traded a same age Kessel as Marner for a #1 C and top pairing D).

We'll get value for him. Or he will take a deal that is offered and you will all look dumb for flip flopping back into him being elite.

 

[The CyNick]

Lou Lamoriello. Our 2 bad contracts are Lou.

Why does Dubas get a bad rep for this?

Because he signed two bad ones and then he's about to sign another bad one with Marner.

And that's not to mention the bad decisions regarding acquiring players.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Look i'm, as pissed as the next fan about Marner being unreasonable with his contract, but calling him anything short of an elite first line winger, who plays all special teams WELL is laughable.

Stop bashing the guy. If he gets traded oh well. It will hurt but we've all been through it before. At least this time we will hopefully be on the otherside of this kind of trade (Like when Boston traded a same age Kessel as Marner for a #1 C and top pairing D).

We'll get value for him. Or he will take a deal that is offered and you will all look dumb for flip flopping back into him being elite.

Really doesn't surprise me that you say the Leafs traded A top C and a top D for Kessel.

The leafs traded draft picks, not players. If they had Hamilton and Seguin on their team that trade wouldn't have happened.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Because he signed two bad ones and then he's about to sign another bad one with Marner.

And that's not to mention the bad decisions regarding acquiring players.

Hasn't signed a bad one yet. Can't really judge those 2 based on 4 months of playing can you ?