Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion

[biotk]

Question: why didnt the leafs just sign all 3 of them To 8 year deals 1-2 years ago. Much better contracts.
Or did the players want to wait?

Because none of them were interested in signing a year early unless it was a big overpay.

Last summer a whole lot of people on here thought that all three were going to sign 8 year team friendly deals. That never made any sense. It was already known that it was likely that Nylander and Marner were going to be tough negotiations (based on their fathers), and it should have already been suspected that all three were going to be tough negotiations based on the agents all three hired.

When I asked myself a year ago why any of three of them would sign team friendly deals I could come up with no reasons for Nylander or Matthews to do so. Marner was a possibility because he was a player living his childhood dream of playing for the Leafs, but I have seen no indication that he has any interest in signing for any less than the maximum he can squeeze.

Some NHL players are living out their childhood dreams. Others are cut-throat businessmen advancing their interests. I view all three as the latter. Should that be a surprise? Hockey has become a big business starting when kids are like 6-years-old.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Why do you even care about previous contracts of other players? It's like someone said to you before, there is no rule that Pastrnak's contract must be used since it's worked out for the Bruins.

He is locked into that mindset for a while now, he thinks their are rules, etc to negotiating and it's not far to break the unwritten rules, etc. It's just not how it goes here in Leaf land

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Why do you even care about previous contracts of other players? It's like someone said to you before, there is no rule that Pastrnak's contract must be used since it's worked out for the Bruins.

Why do I care about previous contracts of other players?

Everyone in this thread is telling me what Marner “deserves” based SPECIFICALLY on contracts of other players, such as Matthews.

So, again, why are horrible contracts the new benchmark for where negotiations start, but great contracts just “don’t count” as comparables?

 

[Da Cool Rula]

Because none of them were interested in signing a year early unless it was a big overpay.

Last summer a whole lot of people on here thought that all three were going to sign 8 year team friendly deals. That never made any sense. It was already known that it was likely that Nylander and Marner were going to be tough negotiations (based on their fathers), and it should have already been suspected that all three were going to be tough negotiations based on the agents all three hired.

When I asked myself a year ago why any of three of them would sign team friendly deals I could come up with no reasons for Nylander or Matthews to do so. Marner was a possibility because he was a player living his childhood dream of playing for the Leafs, but I have seen no indication that he has any interest in signing for any less than the maximum he can squeeze.

Some NHL players are living out their childhood dreams. Others are cut-throat businessmen advancing their interests. I view all three as the latter. Should that be a surprise? Hockey has become a big business starting when kids are like 6-years-old.

Wow thanks for the in depth reply. Makes sense.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

This won't involve the Leafs but assuming the Panthers sign Bobrovsky, is Luongo all of the sudden going to need LTIR? I know he had injuries this season and I think last season. Although wouldn't that look even more suspicious given the circumstances?

I think it almost guaranteed that Luongo has played his last game already.
His cheater contract drops to $1.6 million this year and he will go on LTIRetirment and ride off into the sunset.

 

[MLSE]

Lol, Dubas should be fired if that happens.

I hate to be one of "those" people but I first hand dealt with Ferris and Mitch's father, there is no discount gonna happen here.

He had 94 points this season and saw Matthews get what he got on a 5 year deal. Good luck getting something under 10. I am fairly confident it will over 10 and there is nothing Dubas can do about it other than not sign the deal, which he won't and he will sign him.

 

[MLSE]

**** that

I'd rather bridge him if that's what 8 years is going for

He may get bridged, its just gonna cost us even more after though.

 

[Kiwi]

He may get bridged, its just gonna cost us even more after though.

Then trade him because there is no way in hell he's worth 11M straight out of his ECL, no way in hell

 

[Notsince67]

Keep fighting the good fight with the duplicitous posters here . It's actually comical to see the same people bending over all year, polishing turds, now scouring every angle to **** on the guy who did it all this year.

What next, he stopped talking pucks to the face the last few games?

I hate feeling like im defending Marner all the time. It just gnaws on me that this kid is always on trial when he just improves year in and year out. If he ever gets hurt, I just know that he wont get credit for things like PPG stats like Matthews. Cant wait to see next year. Heads will explode if he takes the team's point title yet again.

 

[Metroid]

I hope Marner signs for max term just to see waffle dude and cynick ECT here lose their minds.
Go leafs go

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

I don’t know what the plan is. But Dubas said he can sign everyone. He convinced Tavares he could.

He is still planning to make moves And insiders are saying he could be moved. Marleau himself said he would cross that bridge.

I don’t know the plan. But they have one. We will see

Exactly.
Marleau had the opportunity to be emphatic and dispell all doubt that he would be back but didnt, he was vague.
Which gives me some hope.

 

[Legion34]

I hate feeling like im defending Marner all the time. It just gnaws on me that this kid is always on trial when he just improves year in and year out. If he ever gets hurt, I just know that he wont get credit for things like PPG stats like Matthews. Cant wait to see next year. Heads will explode if he takes the team's point title yet again.

If matthews played wing with Tavares. And Marner plays C with Hyman and brown and Still wins the title.

People will change their tune

 

[Notsince67]

Do you have an argument in favor of your position? Or are you just going to spout your usual tactless bull****



This is what a fact based argument looks like, I know that's a bit beyond your pay grade but give it a try



The better goal scorer? Matthews is one of the best goal scorers in the entire league, he's an elite goal scorer by any sane metric we can use

Players get paid for goals, especially if your elite at it and Matthews is a unicorn in terms of center goal scoring on his ECL, so no it's not a tie
It's not even close

This has nothing to do with Nylander, Marner doesn't deserve Matthews money and only a complete homer would say he does, it's mind numbing you people now want to overpay because its your favourites time to get a new contract

The hypocrisy is mind numbing, if overpaying was bad for the other two it's bad for Marner, you can't have this **** both ways

WHO HAS LEAD THE LEAFS IN POINTS FOR THE LAST 2 YEARS? Everything you say does not negate the fact that Marner has contributed more to the leafs than Matthews. You were an ardent Nylander fart catcher last year and now you are playing the sober analyst?Give all of us a break from your punditry because you are also in the category of hockey clown

 

[Legion34]

Exactly.
Marleau had the opportunity to be emphatic and dispell all doubt that he would be back but didnt, he was vague.
Which gives me some hope.

Or his agent could tell Lebrun. Who is in SJ right now.

I mean come on. They don’t ask all the time?

 

[TheScandal89]

Hopefully it is almost done and Dubas is geering up to make some cap adjusting trades, to help spread what little cap we have after Tavares, Matthews and Marner will take around 30 million. Relying on a bunch of unproven rookies on entry level contracts to fill in the holes might not work.

 

[Notsince67]

If matthews played wing with Tavares. And Marner plays C with Hyman and brown and Still wins the title.

People will change their tune

Good grief. Marner was outpoi ting Matthews by a large degree with Kadri and Marleau

 

[MLSE]

Then trade him because there is no way in hell he's worth 11M straight out of his ECL, no way in hell

8 years at 11 million? We would look back thinking he was worth every penny... 10.5... even better!

 

[darrylsittler27]

The thing is the more Marner makes now the worse this team will be off. The fans get screwed no one else and there is still no cup. The is no correlation between the more players make the more likely they will win a cup.

 

[LeafsNation75]

WHO HAS LEAD THE LEAFS IN POINTS FOR THE LAST 2 YEARS? Everything you say does not negate the fact that Marner has contributed more to the leafs than Matthews. You were an ardent Nylander fart catcher last year and now you are playing the sober analyst?Give all of us a break from your punditry because you are also in the category of hockey clown

This is not a shot against Marner but when Auston Matthews played all 82 games in his rookie season he lead Toronto in points and he could have done that again the last 2 seasons if he never missed any games.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

8 years at 11 million? We would look back thinking he was worth every penny... 10.5... even better!

Other than Ovechkin and his 16%, is there any precedent of a winger making 13% of the cap off of their elc?
For reference: Ovechkin scored 160 goals/310 points over his elc. Marner 67 goals/224 points.

Kane was 11%. His elc totals? 76 goals/230 points.

Because the leafs have an expensive centre, they now have to give unprecedented contracts to their wingers? Is there any precedent for that on other teams?

Seems like all of the rules get recreated when it comes to the Maple Leafs...

 

[Kiwi]

WHO HAS LEAD THE LEAFS IN POINTS FOR THE LAST 2 YEARS? Everything you say does not negate the fact that Marner has contributed more to the leafs than Matthews. You were an ardent Nylander fart catcher last year and now you are playing the sober analyst?Give all of us a break from your punditry because you are also in the category of hockey clown

You get paid more if your a goalscorer and you play center, THAT IS A FACT HISTORICALLY, Marner isn't either of those things

Matthew's is one of the finest goalscoring centers on his ECL in the modern era, he's also one of the best goal scorers league wide so when you say Marner is more valuable you look like a very unintelligent, even more so than usual which didn't seem possible

Nylander is a good player, that is a fact, he's also overpaid so I'm wondering why hypocrites like yourself who were complaining about that overpayment for months adnausium are so keen on doing it again?

But instead of overpaying by 500K were doing it by 1.5-2M, any explanation on the about face genius?

8 years at 11 million? We would look back thinking he was worth every penny... 10.5... even better!

There is no comparable for a playmaking good but not great goal scoring winger straight out of his ECL to get anywhere near that number, that is a gross overpayment and I can't believe this is even a thing

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

I hope Marner signs for max term just to see waffle dude and cynick ECT here lose their minds.
Go leafs go

8y/$10m will be ok (still an overpay imo) . I'll lose my turd if it's $10m for 4 years the way Dubas has been doing it though. Waffle dude brings up great points.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Other than Ovechkin and his 16%, is there any precedent of a winger making 13% of the cap off of their elc?
For reference: Ovechkin scored 160 goals/310 points over his elc. Marner 67 goals/224 points.

Kane was 11%. His elc totals? 76 goals/230 points.

Because the leafs have an expensive centre, they now have to give unprecedented contracts to their wingers? Is there any precedent for that on other teams?

Seems like all of the rules get recreated when it comes to the Maple Leafs...

you're trying to play a game with rules, but nobody else is, do you not see that? You keep repeating your failures from the other two signings

 

[Legion34]

Good grief. Marner was outpoi ting Matthews by a large degree with Kadri and Marleau

Ummm no he wasn’t? You might want to check again. Matthews coming off a shoulder injury was still higher gpg and ppg

 

[Throw More Waffles]

you're trying to play a game with rules, but nobody else is, do you not see that? You keep repeating your failures from the other two signings

So your argument now is "The leafs pay more, and there are no logical rules and it makes no sense."

Uh... okay.

That's my precise point. The contracts Dubas is handing out make absolutely no logical sense based on precedence.