Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion

[Legion34]

maybe , but it's funny how i keep hearing how T-Bays players sign for less because they pay less taxes so there take home pay is the same it would be in other markets but the huge endorsements deals we arrange for our players dosen't factor into them taking a lower NHL salary and having it made up by endorsement money , curious

One. Ultimately it doesn’t matter why it doesn’t make a difference. The fact is. It clearly doesn’t. That’s like asking why people don’t want to live In Winnipeg to play. I mean humans travelled for centuries moving away from Africa to colder climates right? If we don’t like the cold. Why did we work so hard move north?

That’s the same level of relevance. There is NO evidence that endorsements lower AAV. None. In any market. Toronto is not the only market to provide endorsements. There is plenty of evidence. That tax systems Lower AAV. Especially with signing bonuses.

My personal guess is that they aren’t gauranteed. Sponsors can drop you in a second. Teams can’t.

But ultimately it doesnt matter. We have seen that taxes win out. Remember. The leafs tried to use endorsements to lure stamkos.


Lou couldn’t get it done........ dubas did.

 

[Legion34]

Lupul and Robidas were perpetually injured, which is pretty much the exact opposite of what Marleau has been for almost his entire career.

Hossa played all playoffs then his skin condition from equipment became too risky .... in the summer. Not wearing equipment

 

[LeafsNation75]

Lupul and Robidas were perpetually injured, which is pretty much the exact opposite of what Marleau has been for almost his entire career.

This won't involve the Leafs but assuming the Panthers sign Bobrovsky, is Luongo all of the sudden going to need LTIR? I know he had injuries this season and I think last season. Although wouldn't that look even more suspicious given the circumstances?

 

[Duke Silver]

Hossa played all playoffs then his skin condition from equipment became too risky .... in the summer. Not wearing equipment

So we're banking on Marleau agreeing to end his career to help us out?

 

[Legion34]

This won't involve the Leafs but assuming the Panthers sign Bobrovsky, is Luongo all of the sudden going to need LTIR? I know he had injuries this season and I think last season. Although wouldn't that look even more suspicious given the circumstances?

Zetterberg already came out and said he wasn’t going to play when his contract dropped and he did it on purpose to circumvent the cap.

Nothing is happening to him

 

[Duke Silver]

This won't involve the Leafs but assuming the Panthers sign Bobrovsky, is Luongo all of the sudden going to need LTIR? I know he had injuries this season and I think last season. Although wouldn't that look even more suspicious given the circumstances?

Luongo's a broken down shell of a man. That's a legitimate LTIR case there, regardless of contract structure.

 

[Fogelhund]

Dubas aid Nylander 6.9 when he should have got 5.5-6 like ehlers
Tervainen(sp) Larkin got so he is overpaid by at least a million

Matthews got 11.6 he should have got Eichel money at 10 so overpaid by 1.6 especially on a 5 year deal

Marner should get 9.5 and he will get paid at least 10.5 so he will be overpaid by a million

This is what Dubas has done overpaid by 4-5 million on those three. And people wonder why we have a cap crunch

I think he should get paid $9.1, but will be in the 9.6-9.9 range.

 

[Duke Silver]

I think he should get paid $9.1, but will be in the 9.6-9.9 range.

If it's equal to or more than 6 years and starts with a 9, I'm ecstatic.

 

[LeafsNation75]

One. Ultimately it doesn’t matter why it doesn’t make a difference. The fact is. It clearly doesn’t. That’s like asking why people don’t want to live In Winnipeg to play. I mean humans travelled for centuries moving away from Africa to colder climates right? If we don’t like the cold. Why did we work so hard move north?

That’s the same level of relevance. There is NO evidence that endorsements lower AAV. None. In any market. Toronto is not the only market to provide endorsements. There is plenty of evidence. That tax systems Lower AAV. Especially with signing bonuses.

My personal guess is that they aren’t gauranteed. Sponsors can drop you in a second. Teams can’t.

But ultimately it doesnt matter. We have seen that taxes win out. Remember. The leafs tried to use endorsements to lure stamkos.


Lou couldn’t get it done........ dubas did.

Say what you want about the Nylander contract but that was also another deal Lou could not get done when Nylander was eligible to sign an extension starting on July 1, 2017.

Also what makes it funnier about Dubas signing Tavares is that Lou meet with Tavares about staying with the Islanders while he was under contract to Toronto as a Senior Adviser.

 

[Legion34]

So we're banking on Marleau agreeing to end his career to help us out?

I don’t know what the plan is. But Dubas said he can sign everyone. He convinced Tavares he could.

He is still planning to make moves And insiders are saying he could be moved. Marleau himself said he would cross that bridge.

I don’t know the plan. But they have one. We will see

 

[hotpaws]

One. Ultimately it doesn’t matter why it doesn’t make a difference. The fact is. It clearly doesn’t. That’s like asking why people don’t want to live In Winnipeg to play. I mean humans travelled for centuries moving away from Africa to colder climates right? If we don’t like the cold. Why did we work so hard move north?

That’s the same level of relevance. There is NO evidence that endorsements lower AAV. None. In any market. Toronto is not the only market to provide endorsements. There is plenty of evidence. That tax systems Lower AAV. Especially with signing bonuses.

My personal guess is that they aren’t gauranteed. Sponsors can drop you in a second. Teams can’t.

But ultimately it doesnt matter. We have seen that taxes win out. Remember. The leafs tried to use endorsements to lure stamkos.


Lou couldn’t get it done........ dubas did.

they don't make a difference because Dubas can't negotiate a contract and only in T-Bay does the no state tax (which is way overblown to begin with) make one since Yzerman can and no other zero state tax team is getting discounts yet this crap on how it makes a huge difference keeps getting repeated to defend Dubas being bent over

the sad part is how many fans we have that couldn't care less how incompetent out GM is yet feel the need to defend every move he makes , first it was with Burke and now it's with Dubas

 

[TradeforWendel]

I don’t know what the plan is. But Dubas said he can sign everyone. He convinced Tavares he could.

He is still planning to make moves And insiders are saying he could be moved. Marleau himself said he would cross that bridge.

I don’t know the plan. But they have one. We will see

IF -- and that's an enormous juicy if -- Dubas can actually do this, man. That'll be something else. But I think he's backed himself into quite a corner. I think for all the praise heaped on him for getting JT into town, which was undoubtedly huge, over the next couple years you could see the tide really turn against him if this team ends up getting blown up because of cap problems without anything to show for it.

 

[LeafsNation75]

they don't make a difference because Dubas can't negotiate a contract and only in T-Bay does the no state tax (which is way overblown to begin with) make one since Yzerman can and no other zero state tax team is getting discounts yet this crap on how it makes a huge difference keeps getting repeated to defend Dubas being bent over

the sad part is how many fans we have that couldn't care less how incompetent out GM is yet feel the need to defend every move he makes , first it was with Burke and now it's with Dubas

Besides the no state tax thing which I agree is overblown since that has not helped the Florida Panthers attract major UFA's since they play in the same state as the Lightning, I think Yzerman was able to get Stamkos, Hedman and Kucherov on great deals because of his reputation. Now that he's gone there is no guarantee that Julien BriseBois will do the same thing with Brayden Point.

 

[realgoodleafs]

If you look at Matthews stats with and without Nylander it's very clear they both play at their absolute best with each other. The same can be said about Tavares/Marner, but we don't have the sample size with Tavares away from Marner (on the Leafs) for us to know. What we do have is statistics like RAPM.Off_xGF which is considered the "play driving" statistic. The chart in the original quote shows both Tavares and Marner, and how Tavares is one of the best players in the league at driving play, and how Marner although very good is nowhere near.

Although it could be considered "riding his coattails" when it comes to Nylander as Matthews is a far superior player, there are statistics to back up that Nylander is elite at driving play (2nd on the team after Tavares this season), and that Matthews needs a playmaker of Nylander's ilk to be his most effective self.

A RAPM.Off_xGF? lol

 

[LeafsNation75]

I don’t know what the plan is. But Dubas said he can sign everyone. He convinced Tavares he could.

He is still planning to make moves And insiders are saying he could be moved. Marleau himself said he would cross that bridge.

I don’t know the plan. But they have one. We will see

Look at Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, and Chicago re-signing their core players despite the salary cap.

 

[Kiwi]

I think he should get paid $9.1, but will be in the 9.6-9.9 range.

If he's got term on the deal like 6 years plus I don't think his contract is starting with anything less than a 10 in front of it

I will be disgusted and pissed off but that what usually happens after these negotiations

 

[realgoodleafs]

JT is a better goal scorer than Kadri and Bozak? You don't say.
View attachment 228057

Funny he still puts up higher numbers with Kadri than Willy does with Matthews...... wtf does that say? Give me a break. What is the bitterness with the willy fan club? is it because Marner turned out better or something?
Can't even have a normal discussion anymore.

Marner's progression also lines up with year 1, 2, and 3. No surprise Marner is better in his third year than in his first.

 

[biotk]

Dubas should have slapped 9m x 7yrs on the table along with the corporate partners endorsements he lined up for him and said this is best he can do with the situation our cap will be in . Instead he gave him the 2nd highest cap hit in the league , tried to sell it as a sub market contract and expected the kids take sub market deals to compensate for JT's cap hit .

That is exactly what Dubas should do with Marner. But oh no that would be terrible because it's Marner.

9M a year. Final offer. Take it or enjoy your season somewhere else.

 

[ShaneFalco]

That is exactly what Dubas should do with Marner. But oh no that would be terrible because it's Marner.

9M a year. Final offer. Take it or enjoy your season somewhere else.

Yup I’m leaning towards that too. Probably drag out though and go down to the wire. But we can’t have 4 forwards making that much $$ without having made it by the first round in my mind

 

[Mr Hockey]

Does anyone know what Matthews wanted for 8 years?

 

[Randy Randerson]

Does anyone know what Matthews wanted for 8 years?

I think it was equal to McDavid's % of cap applied to the $83-85M cap, so in the low $13M's

 

[LeafsNation75]

Does anyone know what Matthews wanted for 8 years?

I remember hearing he wanted $14 million if he was to get an 8 year contract.

 

[Byron Bitz]

That is exactly what Dubas should do with Marner. But oh no that would be terrible because it's Marner.

9M a year. Final offer. Take it or enjoy your season somewhere else.

I agree, I don’t think a winger has ever been paid 10+ Off their elc. Why should Marner be the first?

 

[Kiwi]

That is exactly what Dubas should do with Marner. But oh no that would be terrible because it's Marner.

9M a year. Final offer. Take it or enjoy your season somewhere else.

I'm more generous than that

I'd be willing to go to 10M×8 but anything over that he's gone

I did laugh at the thing on TSN from LeBrun about Marner wanting to be valued like Tavares and Matthews

All I could think was why should I ******* care? When you become a goal scoring center I may take that seriously

 

[Byron Bitz]

I think it was equal to McDavid's % of cap applied to the $83-85M cap, so in the low $13M's

Does that mean he’s as good as McDavid? How do we know what Matthews asked for, aren’t these negotiations private?