Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part IV

[kb]

But that's not the comparison. It's Marner vs. 4 firsts plus $11M+ in cap space, or another high level player if you prefer. Let's call it 4 firsts plus Panarin plus probably $2M in leftover cap space. Or 4 firsts plus Trouba and probably $4M in leftover cap space. You really have to decide exactly how in love with this player you are at that point.

It seems so self-evident. Imagine having Panarin, $1-2 million extra in cap space, AND 4 additional first round picks? Anyone who doesn't see this isn't being objective.

 

[Nineteen67]

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl-salary-cap-could-be-below-83-million-for-2019-20-season-1.1323817

I’ve been wondering this for a couple of weeks.

 

[ACC1224]

But that's not the comparison. It's Marner vs. 4 firsts plus $11M+ in cap space, or another high level player if you prefer. Let's call it 4 firsts plus Panarin plus probably $2M in leftover cap space. Or 4 firsts plus Trouba and probably $4M in leftover cap space. You really have to decide exactly how in love with this player you are at that point.

Signing UFA's isn't guaranteed and Cap money is only as valuable as what you can spend it on.
I'd rather Marner/Matthews than the cap space plus the riches they can return.

 

[Notsince67]

But that's not the comparison. It's Marner vs. 4 firsts plus $11M+ in cap space, or another high level player if you prefer. Let's call it 4 firsts plus Panarin plus probably $2M in leftover cap space. Or 4 firsts plus Trouba and probably $4M in leftover cap space. You really have to decide exactly how in love with this player you are at that point.

So Panarin signs for the same money as Skinner?

 

[Notsince67]

It seems so self-evident. Imagine having Panarin, $1-2 million extra in cap space, AND 4 additional first round picks? Anyone who doesn't see this isn't being objective.

Is Panarin = Skinner? Who is not being objective here?

 

[kb]

Signing UFA's isn't guaranteed and Cap money is only as valuable as what you can spend it on.
I'd rather Marner/Matthews than the cap space plus the riches they can return.

Very short sighted. You can take on salary in a trade too - it doesn't have to be spent on a UFA.

 

[Trapper]

So Panarin signs for the same money as Skinner?

Should be at least Kucherov money I would think. (Starting point).
It also wouldn't surprise me to see Panarin and Bob sign for the Parise/Suter same deal in Florida July 1st.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Honestly just sick of these kids. Imagine going back in time and trying to cheer yourself up watching the Kessel - Phaneuf Leafs and saying don't worry.. In a few years time you'll have a core that is good enough to win with... But they'll demand so much money you can't ever put a winning team around them, and none of them have won anything major individual awards either.

Matthews, ok he is from Arizona and doesn't care about Toronto. Nylander I see it too. But Marner? All because of his ego? He can go f*** himself to be honest. I hope he gets dealt to somewhere where he misses the playoffs every year of his contract.

 

[Mess]

4 1sts and about $10 million in additional cap space. Why do people continue to only mention half of the equation??? So much that you can sign AND trade for with that kind of currency and cap room.

Side A: If you let Marner walk and then use that $10 mil to resign RFAs in AJ and Kapanen and bring back UFA Hainsey and have accumulated a bunch of unknown draft picks in the future does that really help the Leafs in the present?

Side B: If you match the offersheet and keep Marner (within reason), and let Hainsey walk and you deal AJ and Kapanen for a pair of draft picks because of cap issues and does that help the Leafs more in the present?

That is really the 2 sides of the overall equation where the clear majority would fall on the Side B option of the equation. IMO

 

[ACC1224]

So Panarin signs for the same money as Skinner?

Yeah seems to be a bit of a fantasy that a) he will come here b) he will take that amount.

 

[Nineteen67]

Side A: If you let Marner walk and then use that $10 mil to resign RFAs in AJ and Kapanen and bring back UFA Hainsey and have accumulated a bunch of unknown draft picks in the future does that really help the Leafs in the present?

Side B: If you match the offersheet and keep Marner (within reason), and let Hainsey walk and you deal AJ and Kapanen for a pair of draft picks because of cap issues and does that help the Leafs more in the present?

That is really the 2 sides of the overall equation where the clear majority would fall on the Side B option of the equation. IMO

This is why Nylander is obvious choice to be moved

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

So Panarin signs for the same money as Skinner?

I can't argue with that. As I said previously, Bufallo seems to be at the forefront of setting salary levels. Not sure what to say except that if Panarin gets more than $10M I give up on trying to predict this stuff anymore.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

This is why Nylander is obvious choice to be moved

Except that he's the deal of the century if Marner gets $11M+.

 

[Black hat blue eyes]

Side A: If you let Marner walk and then use that $10 mil to resign RFAs in AJ and Kapanen and bring back UFA Hainsey and have accumulated a bunch of unknown draft picks in the future does that really help the Leafs in the present?

Side B: If you match the offersheet and keep Marner (within reason), and let Hainsey walk and you deal AJ and Kapanen for a pair of draft picks because of cap issues and does that help the Leafs more in the present?

That is really the 2 sides of the overall equation where the clear majority would fall on the Side B option of the equation. IMO

Wow. No offense...but there is more than just side A or B here..

Side C is more like take the 4 1st rounders because if Marner actually signs the offersheet then he's dead to me... I'll take the cap saving the picks.. plus the cap savings from the ziestev and marleau trades.... Use that to resign Aj and Kap to reasonable deals then either trade or free agent signing to shore up the D and the opening left from Marner. I'll be sad he chose to leave but excited we have a lot of future picks and we are still contenders.... And f***. Hainsey he can walk.

 

[Notsince67]

Yeah seems to be a bit of a fantasy that a) he will come here b) he will take that amount.

So the last salary predictions (so valued here) I saw had Skinner coming in at 8.5MM, Panarin at 11.4MM, Karlsson at 9.9MM and Marner at 9.8MM.
Skinner already in at 9 (.5MM higher)
Karlsson is coming in at the same cap % as Doughty so around 11.5 (1.6MM higher)
Does Panarin sign for 2MM less than an already proven low projection?

I don't take a lot of stock in the projections but anyone who thinks there is 2MM savings to be had by signing Panarin should smoke less crack.

 

[Suntouchable13]

So the last salary predictions (so valued here) I saw had Skinner coming in at 8.5MM, Panarin at 11.4MM, Karlsson at 9.9MM and Marner at 9.8MM.
Skinner already in at 9 (.5MM higher)
Karlsson is coming in at the same cap % as Doughty so around 11.5 (1.6MM higher)
Does Panarin sign for 2MM less than an already proven low projection?

I don't take a lot of stock in the projections but anyone who thinks there is 2MM savings to be had by signing Panarin should smoke less crack.

I don’t want 3 guys over 11mil. It’s not going to work.

 

[Notsince67]

I can't argue with that. As I said previously, Bufallo seems to be at the forefront of setting salary levels. Not sure what to say except that if Panarin gets more than $10M I give up on trying to predict this stuff anymore.

I'm guessing he is close to 12MM

 

[Notsince67]

I don’t want 3 guys over 11mil. It’s not going to work.

Who does?

 

[Mess]

This is why Nylander is obvious choice to be moved

I think the minute they signed Tavares it became an either/or proposition between keeping either Marner or Nylander for cap reasons going forward, if the goal was cup competitiveness.

This required foresight and not hindsight to have the best possible outcome here.. Unfortunately those in power had to first see this play out as it has, and now are in a reactionary position as opposed to proactively handling this, as we witness escalating salaries put pressure on decisons.

Last year while Nylander was still unsigned and names like RHD like Parayko and Werenski were mentioned in trade rumours and upgrading the Defense was a possibility, that was the time to strike knowing that Matthews and Marner would join JT up at the top of the Leafs salary scale, and the $7 mil you were going to have to pay Nylander would be better served as a significant upgrade to the dcore and better cap management for the Leafs.

Do we really need Leafs signing or matching an OS for Marner to realize that it might very well result in missed playoffs, because this is uncharted territory of paying 4 forwards nearly 1/2 you cap and the impact on the rest of the team might result in failure and not success.

Hopefully we're not sitting here a year from now after having missed the playoffs that finally now realizing that saying "We can and We will" sign and keep all 3 kids and needed to be proven wrong first to force change, because then it will be obvious that was once hoped for was not realistic and you've wasted more "Cup windows" getting to the same conclusion.

 

[IPS]

Side A: If you let Marner walk and then use that $10 mil to resign RFAs in AJ and Kapanen and bring back UFA Hainsey and have accumulated a bunch of unknown draft picks in the future does that really help the Leafs in the present?

Side B: If you match the offersheet and keep Marner (within reason), and let Hainsey walk and you deal AJ and Kapanen for a pair of draft picks because of cap issues and does that help the Leafs more in the present?

That is really the 2 sides of the overall equation where the clear majority would fall on the Side B option of the equation. IMO

This is a false dichotomy if I've ever seen one

 

[A1LeafNation]

I wouldnt be sad if Dubas trade this teams fan favorite for a package that makes us better.

Similar to what the Raps did with DeRozen.

Let me know which Raps fans care today that DeRozen isn't a Raptor now.

 

[IPS]

I can't believe how many people think we might miss the playoffs next year. Y'all will be shocked at how well this team will do without Babcock.

 

[ACC1224]

I wouldnt be sad if Dubas trade this teams fan favorite for a package that makes us better.

Similar to what the Raps did with DeRozen.

Let me know which Raps fans care today that DeRozen isn't a Raptor now.

Who is the Leonard they are obtaining in your example?

 

[4thline]

This is a false dichotomy if I've ever seen one

False dichotomy, false premise, just all kinds of false.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Who is the Leonard they are obtaining in your example?

Leafs already have two Leonard’s.

Marner would be moved to create space for the supporting/depth players that the leafs desperately need. Most of whom are already on the team, but would be lost due to cap issues. The money left over would be for a 3-4 D.