Only has to stay on NHL roster for 30 days if claimed then can be placed on waivers again with the Flyers having 1st choice of picking him back up
2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging
- Thread starter Beef Invictus
- Start date
prototypical4thliner
Registered User
- Jan 12, 2017
- 4,110
- 6,203
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,833
- 21,838
I think "the lack of talent" meme for the Flyers is a bit exaggerated.
top 5x5 scoring forwards, 5x5 per 60:
Tippett 2.31 (40)
TK 2.28 (43)
Farabee 2.25 (50)
Michkov and Frost have a chance of breaking into the top 50 this season. Question is how NHL ready Michkov is and whether Frost can take the next step and exploit high scoring wings.
If Couts is healthy, and another year away from his back surgeries, can't see him at 1.53 again, from 2017-2021 he averaged 2.20 pp/60. If he's playing with Farabee and TK/Michkov, and is healthy, should be more like 2.00+. Had great metrics at less than 100% but horrible Sh%.
Guys like Brink (1.59), Foerster (1.28), Cates (1.37 but 1.68 second half at LW) are more iffy.
Not sure how much offense you'll get out of Cates/Foerster - Laughton - Foerster/Brink. Probably 3rd line or so.
And of course, whoever is at LW with Poehling and Hathaway will get chances to score goals b/c they're possession monsters, but you're not getting a lot of assists feeding those two.
On defense, it's trickier.
York - Sanheim was a 2nd pair matched against 1st lines last season, how much upside do they have?
Seeler - Walker was a top 2nd pair, but will Seeler - Drysdale be as productive?
Zamula - Risto depends on Zamula's development and Risto' health.
top 5x5 scoring forwards, 5x5 per 60:
Tippett 2.31 (40)
TK 2.28 (43)
Farabee 2.25 (50)
Michkov and Frost have a chance of breaking into the top 50 this season. Question is how NHL ready Michkov is and whether Frost can take the next step and exploit high scoring wings.
If Couts is healthy, and another year away from his back surgeries, can't see him at 1.53 again, from 2017-2021 he averaged 2.20 pp/60. If he's playing with Farabee and TK/Michkov, and is healthy, should be more like 2.00+. Had great metrics at less than 100% but horrible Sh%.
Guys like Brink (1.59), Foerster (1.28), Cates (1.37 but 1.68 second half at LW) are more iffy.
Not sure how much offense you'll get out of Cates/Foerster - Laughton - Foerster/Brink. Probably 3rd line or so.
And of course, whoever is at LW with Poehling and Hathaway will get chances to score goals b/c they're possession monsters, but you're not getting a lot of assists feeding those two.
On defense, it's trickier.
York - Sanheim was a 2nd pair matched against 1st lines last season, how much upside do they have?
Seeler - Walker was a top 2nd pair, but will Seeler - Drysdale be as productive?
Zamula - Risto depends on Zamula's development and Risto' health.
FLYguy3911
Sanheim Lover
- Oct 19, 2006
- 54,112
- 88,807
But teams aren't claiming guys they don't think will stick in the NHL. Two way contracts didn't stop the Flyers from claiming fourth line plugs like MacEwen and Brown. Hell Brown didn't even start his 2 year contract when the Flyers claimed him.
The way teams piss away money in this league, I really don't think they are too worried about a prorated couple hundred thousand, with no cap implications, in the worst case scenario.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Hollywood Cannon
I'm Away From My Desk
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,833
- 21,838
3 in the top 50 is pretty good.
Now they don't have an elite scorer, but Point at #19 was 2.50, not a big gap.
If Michkov is top 10-20 in a year or two they'd match up pretty well.
Even better if Frost can become a true 2C.
And if Luchanko can upgrade over Laughton.
Same way Sanheim was 23rd among D-men.
Now they need Drysdale or another D-man to step up and be in the top 50 or so, which is about 1.0 pp/60. [Walker was 31st).
They need more talent, but not a huge amount, maybe another forward who's a goal scorer, an offense first LHD. That is, a top 6 and a top 4. They should be able to land that this summer.
They also need to improve the PP, the PK is in pretty good shape.
Now they don't have an elite scorer, but Point at #19 was 2.50, not a big gap.
If Michkov is top 10-20 in a year or two they'd match up pretty well.
Even better if Frost can become a true 2C.
And if Luchanko can upgrade over Laughton.
Same way Sanheim was 23rd among D-men.
Now they need Drysdale or another D-man to step up and be in the top 50 or so, which is about 1.0 pp/60. [Walker was 31st).
They need more talent, but not a huge amount, maybe another forward who's a goal scorer, an offense first LHD. That is, a top 6 and a top 4. They should be able to land that this summer.
They also need to improve the PP, the PK is in pretty good shape.
Magua
Entirely Palatable Product
The PP is the most accurate portrayal of top end talent. It’s curious how the talented Flyers the last 2 seasons have finished dead last in xGF/60 and GF/60. It can’t be coaching because the coaches have had their praises sung and every coach has been retained. This is a mystery alright. And I don’t think the Flyers have another even average future PP producer in the system after Michkov, so this will be as good as it gets.
You clearly haven't seen how dominant Bonk can be in the slot
freakydallas13
Registered User
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,833
- 21,838
No, it's not. A lot of PP QBs are 3rd pair defensemen who are sheltered at even strength.
Some top scoring PP forwards are bottom six at ES.
Reason is simple, you don't need size (except a net front guy) or speed on the PP, it's a "half court" game, so experience and situation specific skill allow certain players to shine who otherwise are mediocre.
Now top offensive talent tends to excel on the PP, but it's "special teams," and the PK is just as important (shutting down good PP units). So when constructing a roster, you can balance between ES, PP and PK.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,833
- 21,838
TB (71): Hedman, Kucherov, Point, Stamkos
Col (68): McKinnon, Maker, Rantanen (Nichuskin)
CAR (67): Aho, Jarvis and a cast of thousands
Rangers (65): Fox, Panarin & Kreider
Edm (64): McDavid, Draisaitl, Bouchard
FLA (63): Reinhart, Barkov, Tkachuk
DET (63): Ghost, Larkin,
MINN (62): Kaprizov, Boldy, Zuccarello
If you have 2-3 three guys who can make plays, you can plug and play the other spots, Carolina is a good example, after Aho and Jarvis PP scoring spread over a half dozen guys.
Ideally, Michkov, Drysdale or another PP QB, Luchanko/Frost, Foerster as the primary goal scorer. Foerster could be a sniper but also net front as he fills out.
Bumper Bonk is a long shot, not confident that will translate at the NHL level.
Farabee if he gets stronger, could be a top PP scorer, he has good hands and shot in close.
Brink is a potential PP playmaker, he's a "half court" guy, has the vision and passing for the PP.
TK and Tippett really aren't PP guys, a lot of their scoring comes off the rush.
Not sure Couts has the hands for the JVR role.
Col (68): McKinnon, Maker, Rantanen (Nichuskin)
CAR (67): Aho, Jarvis and a cast of thousands
Rangers (65): Fox, Panarin & Kreider
Edm (64): McDavid, Draisaitl, Bouchard
FLA (63): Reinhart, Barkov, Tkachuk
DET (63): Ghost, Larkin,
MINN (62): Kaprizov, Boldy, Zuccarello
If you have 2-3 three guys who can make plays, you can plug and play the other spots, Carolina is a good example, after Aho and Jarvis PP scoring spread over a half dozen guys.
Ideally, Michkov, Drysdale or another PP QB, Luchanko/Frost, Foerster as the primary goal scorer. Foerster could be a sniper but also net front as he fills out.
Bumper Bonk is a long shot, not confident that will translate at the NHL level.
Farabee if he gets stronger, could be a top PP scorer, he has good hands and shot in close.
Brink is a potential PP playmaker, he's a "half court" guy, has the vision and passing for the PP.
TK and Tippett really aren't PP guys, a lot of their scoring comes off the rush.
Not sure Couts has the hands for the JVR role.
HeadLiceHatty
Registered User
Apparently Michkov and Frost had some nice chemistry in the scrimmages yesterday, good news. I figured they would look good together though.
Deadpool8812
Registered User
- Feb 10, 2018
- 12,917
- 16,530
HeadLiceHatty
Registered User
Hollywood Cannon
I'm Away From My Desk
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,833
- 21,838
I love it when the HC steals my posts:
"That's the biggest thing with Frosty and I, the up and down we go with is being consistent," Tortorella said Friday. "Important guy, up the middle, a position that we're still trying to find our way with. He makes plays, he has gone through it, has slowly gotten better. I think it's a really big year for him, I really do. I think he has improved, which is really good. But I want to see him in more of a consistent, take charge type of guy. Not with his mouth; with his play."
That's been obvious to anyone honest about what they see when they watch him. And Frost knows this as well,
"I feel stronger," he said Friday. "I think that's definitely one area I can improve on is some of those 1-on-1 puck battles. I'm never going to be a super physical guy out there, but I think if I can win some more 1-on-1 battles and then get the puck to my teammates after that, I think that will help me a lot.
"I'd like to get to a point where I can be relied upon late in the game from a defensive standpoint. I think in the past, that kind of hasn't been there, so that's something I'd like to work on and hopefully get to that point."
Think this is about managing expectations, he's not going to be prime years Panarin or Kucherov at 19. If he has a bad two weeks, don't start labeling him a flop.
"That's the biggest thing with Frosty and I, the up and down we go with is being consistent," Tortorella said Friday. "Important guy, up the middle, a position that we're still trying to find our way with. He makes plays, he has gone through it, has slowly gotten better. I think it's a really big year for him, I really do. I think he has improved, which is really good. But I want to see him in more of a consistent, take charge type of guy. Not with his mouth; with his play."
That's been obvious to anyone honest about what they see when they watch him. And Frost knows this as well,
"I feel stronger," he said Friday. "I think that's definitely one area I can improve on is some of those 1-on-1 puck battles. I'm never going to be a super physical guy out there, but I think if I can win some more 1-on-1 battles and then get the puck to my teammates after that, I think that will help me a lot.
"I'd like to get to a point where I can be relied upon late in the game from a defensive standpoint. I think in the past, that kind of hasn't been there, so that's something I'd like to work on and hopefully get to that point."
Think this is about managing expectations, he's not going to be prime years Panarin or Kucherov at 19. If he has a bad two weeks, don't start labeling him a flop.
Hollywood Cannon
I'm Away From My Desk
Hollywood Cannon
I'm Away From My Desk
blackjackmulligan
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2022
- 3,209
- 1,475
blackjackmulligan
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2022
- 3,209
- 1,475
Top 5- of what? Total points? All these phantom stats mean what at the end of the day? Love PP 60.
blackjackmulligan
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2022
- 3,209
- 1,475
BackToTheBrierePatch
Eff Cancer
I don’t think Michkov really needs to be meeting with the media every day.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,833
- 21,838
5x5 is a good basis for comparison b/c PP scoring often is a matter of being on the right team with a couple really good playmakers setting you up. If Michkov is for real, and Drysdale can fill the PP QB role, everyone else should double their PP scoring this season without being better players.
The other thing to remember is PP/PK are essentially mirror images, if you can build a top ten PK unit you can get by with an average PP (which should be the Flyers' goal right now). A top PK depends on solid goalie play to be effective because even a bad PP will still get a shot or two on goal every PP.
If you can't find a McDavid, you can build a solid offense around three lines (see Dallas). So an extra guy over 40 will balance not having a guy hit 60+.
Top scoring teams, players over 40, players over 30:
COL (304): 4/7 (Makar, Toews) - 5 forwards over 30
TOR (303): 5/8 (Reilly) - 7
Dallas (298): 7/10 (Heiskenan) - 9
EDM (294): 5/8 (Bouchard, Ekholm) - 6
TB (291): 5/7 (Hedman) - 6
NJ (283): 3/6 (Hughes) - 5
NYR (282): 4/6 (Fox) - 5
Van (279): 5/8 (Hughes, Hronek) - 6
CAR (279: 3/8 (Skjei, Slavin) - 6
FLA (268): 4/5 (Forsling) - 4
Bos (267), Winnipeg (259) - you don't need to score if you have top goalies!
Flyers (235): 3/5 (Sanheim) - 4
Couts 29, Laughton 26, Foerster 24, York 22, Atkinson 22, Brink 20, Cates 16.
Out of this group, you need 2-3 to jump into the 30+ group, and Frost from 30 to 40+.
MIchkov replacing Atkinson is a good bet for 1.
The other thing to remember is PP/PK are essentially mirror images, if you can build a top ten PK unit you can get by with an average PP (which should be the Flyers' goal right now). A top PK depends on solid goalie play to be effective because even a bad PP will still get a shot or two on goal every PP.
If you can't find a McDavid, you can build a solid offense around three lines (see Dallas). So an extra guy over 40 will balance not having a guy hit 60+.
Top scoring teams, players over 40, players over 30:
COL (304): 4/7 (Makar, Toews) - 5 forwards over 30
TOR (303): 5/8 (Reilly) - 7
Dallas (298): 7/10 (Heiskenan) - 9
EDM (294): 5/8 (Bouchard, Ekholm) - 6
TB (291): 5/7 (Hedman) - 6
NJ (283): 3/6 (Hughes) - 5
NYR (282): 4/6 (Fox) - 5
Van (279): 5/8 (Hughes, Hronek) - 6
CAR (279: 3/8 (Skjei, Slavin) - 6
FLA (268): 4/5 (Forsling) - 4
Bos (267), Winnipeg (259) - you don't need to score if you have top goalies!
Flyers (235): 3/5 (Sanheim) - 4
Couts 29, Laughton 26, Foerster 24, York 22, Atkinson 22, Brink 20, Cates 16.
Out of this group, you need 2-3 to jump into the 30+ group, and Frost from 30 to 40+.
MIchkov replacing Atkinson is a good bet for 1.
