Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part IV

[Killer Orcas]

How comfortable is he moving on from Toronto though? Often something fans forget when it comes to offer sheets.

It's not about comfort with dollars involved it's about getting what you think your worth. He's not taking less would you? These guys spend off season home anyway. They don't pay him accordingly to what he's worth and what others are willing to pay high chance Toronto has to up offer or he signs offer sheet from someone.

 

[Nineteen67]

To earn a living, yes. But also to be successful and win a championship, no?

I don’t know if winning a championship is that important to all of them. Apparently it matters to Zaitsev as he’s publicly asked to be traded.

 

[ULF_55]

well then if he waits until an offersheet or UFA then he can go play in florida if he likes. Toronto and Canada has taxes everyone pays them, I doubt hockey players (athletes in general) pay the full amount here anyway, due to loopholes. I think I read they can incorperate themselves which lowers their tax etc.

At the end of the day ask to be traded, wait for ufa or tough **** get paid here and pay your taxes. There is no way its as big advantage as its made out to be though higher tax teams wouldn't just allow an advantage like that if it were that big

No one is forcing Marner to sign a contract and pay taxes here in Canada. He won't have a contract July 1st., he can go play overseas.

I'm kind of dumbfounded that anyone thinks Marner is remotely interesting in leaving the Leafs in a giant controversy over money. Like, literally everything about the guy implies the exact opposite.

I have no inside information from Marner, although he is part of his family and they haven't been shy about how poorly he's been treated.
'The Athletic' Wrote A Hit Piece On Mitch Marner's Dad Paul Marner, And He Was More Than Happy To Help — Dean Blundell's Sports, News, Podcast Network

Can anyone here honestly speak for his mindset?

If signing a 9.5 per year deal is beneath him it won't change my opinion of the Leafs.

 

[ULF_55]

It's not about comfort with dollars involved it's about getting what you think your worth. He's not taking less would you? These guys spend off season home anyway. They don't pay him accordingly to what he's worth and what others are willing to pay high chance Toronto has to up offer or he signs offer sheet from someone.

If it gets close to July 1st. with no resolution, I'd be okay with the Leafs dealing him to a team with lots of cap space and patience. I'd be okay with him winning a Cup with another team. I'm not a fan of Marner, heck I hardly know him, I'm a fan of the team.

 

[ShaneFalco]

It's not about comfort with dollars involved it's about getting what you think your worth. He's not taking less would you? These guys spend off season home anyway. They don't pay him accordingly to what he's worth and what others are willing to pay high chance Toronto has to up offer or he signs offer sheet from someone.

Maybe what he thinks he's worth is totally ridiculous
And in that case, let someone else sign him

 

[GrunbeldDragonKnight]

We've paid based on the same kind of factors as everybody else. People just haven't caught on because our guys share ice time to a higher degree than most of their comparables.

Pasternak, more points this season and last than Nylander - Stanley Cup Finals Appearance - Gets paid less than Nylander.

McDavid, most dominant player in the NHL, made the second round of the playoffs once, has eclipsed 100 point plateau twice including winning a scoring title - Matthews gets paid almost as much.

Matthews and Nylander shouldn't be getting near amount the money they are being paid because they are unproven and their comparables are far superior. Same logic applies to Marner. I don't give a shit about cap percentages, and I certainly don't give a shit about comparables but the fact that these guys are getting paid more than actual Stanley Cup winners is a disgrace. Our GM is weak and Nylander should have been traded the moment his contract demands were made to set a precedent. Instead he was rewarded financially for holding out and given a verbal no trade clause by our Peter Pan general manager. This rebuild is over, and this core ain't winning a thing with four players taking up 50 percent or more of our cap space.

 

[ULF_55]

Pasternak, more points this season and last than Nylander - Stanley Cup Finals Appearance - Gets paid less than Nylander.

McDavid, most dominant player in the NHL, made the second round of the playoffs once, has eclipsed 100 point plateau twice including winning a scoring title - Matthews gets paid almost as much.

Matthews and Nylander shouldn't be getting near amount the money they are being paid because they are unproven and their comparables are far superior. Same logic applies to Marner. I don't give a **** about cap percentages, and I certainly don't give a **** about comparables but the fact that these guys are getting paid more than actual Stanley Cup winners is a disgrace. Our GM is weak and Nylander should have been traded the moment his contract demands were made to set a precedent. Instead he was rewarded financially for holding out and given a verbal no trade clause by our Peter Pan general manager. This rebuild is over, and this core ain't winning a thing with four players taking up 50 percent or more of our cap space.

So you're suggesting Dubas has to take a stand now or he isn't learning from past mistakes?

Over the past 2 years, Pastrnak has definitely left Nylander in the dust. Pastrnak has a 1.09 PPG the past 2 seasons. That's better than Marner. Dubas should take that into consideration and look at how much Pastrnak is making and have Marner's contract commensurate with that?

 

[Nithoniniel]

Pasternak, more points this season and last than Nylander - Stanley Cup Finals Appearance - Gets paid less than Nylander.

So you are arguing that we failed to foresee the future then?

I should have seen this coming.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Pasternak, more points this season and last than Nylander - Stanley Cup Finals Appearance - Gets paid less than Nylander.

McDavid, most dominant player in the NHL, made the second round of the playoffs once, has eclipsed 100 point plateau twice including winning a scoring title - Matthews gets paid almost as much.

Matthews and Nylander shouldn't be getting near amount the money they are being paid because they are unproven and their comparables are far superior. Same logic applies to Marner. I don't give a **** about cap percentages, and I certainly don't give a **** about comparables but the fact that these guys are getting paid more than actual Stanley Cup winners is a disgrace. Our GM is weak and Nylander should have been traded the moment his contract demands were made to set a precedent. Instead he was rewarded financially for holding out and given a verbal no trade clause by our Peter Pan general manager. This rebuild is over, and this core ain't winning a thing with four players taking up 50 percent or more of our cap space.

Such a long post and you completely missed the point about ice time.

 

[Gabriel426]

It's not about comfort with dollars involved it's about getting what you think your worth. He's not taking less would you? These guys spend off season home anyway. They don't pay him accordingly to what he's worth and what others are willing to pay high chance Toronto has to up offer or he signs offer sheet from someone.

It is not about what he thinks he is worth, it is about his market value.
Like selling you home, Ofcourse you want it to sell it as high as possible, but will buyers pay that amount is a completely different story. If people are only offering 20%less than your listing price, it is a pretty good indication that your home value is actually 20%less than you think.
If there are teams that is willing to offer Marner 12mil/8yrs, that’s his value. But if other teams at best are offering 9mil/6yrs, why should the Leafs overpaid that amount? Bc Dubas paid Willie a 7mil contract a few months back- where this contract is also looking pretty much considering all the new contracts being signed? Or bc Matthews is getting 11mil plus, where is Matthews is RFA, teams would probably offer 13mil/8yrs for his service?

 

[Gabriel426]

So you're suggesting Dubas has to take a stand now or he isn't learning from past mistakes?

Over the past 2 years, Pastrnak has definitely left Nylander in the dust. Pastrnak has a 1.09 PPG the past 2 seasons. That's better than Marner. Dubas should take that into consideration and look at how much Pastrnak is making and have Marner's contract commensurate with that?

You nailed it. Every RFAs should use Pasternak and Johnny Hockey contract as a ref. If they don’t come close to that, they are all overpaid

 

[Killer Orcas]

Maybe what he thinks he's worth is totally ridiculous
And in that case, let someone else sign him

Maybe in your opinion but his is one that matters good luck hopefully works out.

 

[Killer Orcas]

It is not about what he thinks he is worth, it is about his market value.
Like selling you home, Ofcourse you want it to sell it as high as possible, but will buyers pay that amount is a completely different story. If people are only offering 20%less than your listing price, it is a pretty good indication that your home value is actually 20%less than you think.
If there are teams that is willing to offer Marner 12mil/8yrs, that’s his value. But if other teams at best are offering 9mil/6yrs, why should the Leafs overpaid that amount? Bc Dubas paid Willie a 7mil contract a few months back- where this contract is also looking pretty much considering all the new contracts being signed? Or bc Matthews is getting 11mil plus, where is Matthews is RFA, teams would probably offer 13mil/8yrs for his service?

We'll see but I'd think plenty of teams would be willing to go to 10.5 compensation but im not a GM just guessing like everyone else here.

 

[diceman934]

Ok, Paul.

My lord he is no where near a top 10 d man. And Marner is a Elite player.

 

[diceman934]

If it gets close to July 1st. with no resolution, I'd be okay with the Leafs dealing him to a team with lots of cap space and patience. I'd be okay with him winning a Cup with another team. I'm not a fan of Marner, heck I hardly know him, I'm a fan of the team.

Your a Nylander fan or anyone else from home.

 

[ULF_55]

Your a Nylander fan or anyone else from home.

I was a fan of the team before every player on the team was born. They're all rentals!

 

[Nineteen67]

My lord he is no where near a top 10 d man. And Marner is a Elite player.

OK

 

[Babcocks Marner]

The Score: Projecting Mitch Marner's Next Contract

Projecting Mitch Marner's next contract

After a lost of hoopla they reach
$9.25 x 6 years

Projecting Mitch Marner's next contract

Verdict: 6 years, $55.5 million ($9.25M AAV)

ELC years prior to signing those contracts.

Tarasenko averaged (0.75 PPG)
Johnny Hockey ave. (0.89 PPG) (21yo and 22yo seasons)
Pasta ave (0.72 PPG)
Dri aver (0.72 PPG)

Mitch Marner (0.93)

One of those players stands out a lot more than the others. Pasta and Dri just went on to have great years after signing.

 

[Kiwi]

Your a Nylander fan or anyone else from home.

You ***** about other people being fanboys of certain players while being exactly the same if not worse about guys you like, it's getting bloody old

Marner is a player, nothing more nothing less and he should be treated as such, if that means we get better trading him he should be traded just like every other player on our roster

We aren't the Toronto Maple Marner's or the Toronto Maple Nylander's
We're the Toronto Maple Leafs

 

[MyBudJT]

You ***** about other people being fanboys of certain players while being exactly the same if not worse about guys you like, it's getting bloody old

Marner is a player, nothing more nothing less and he should be treated as such, if that means we get better trading him he should be traded just like every other player on our roster

We aren't the Toronto Maple Marner's or the Toronto Maple Nylander's
We're the Toronto Maple Leafs

You don't trade away a player of Marner's caliber, especially at his current age. You simply don't. You trade the Nylanders/Kadris/Zaitsevs/Marleaus etc to make it work.

 

[Walshy7]

You ***** about other people being fanboys of certain players while being exactly the same if not worse about guys you like, it's getting bloody old

Marner is a player, nothing more nothing less and he should be treated as such, if that means we get better trading him he should be traded just like every other player on our roster

We aren't the Toronto Maple Marner's or the Toronto Maple Nylander's
We're the Toronto Maple Leafs

It is very funny how much of a marner fanboy he is, not that he is a big fan of marner because marner is a great young player.

Just That he resorts to calling people who disagree to even a minor extent fanboys of someone else the hypocrisy is very humorous

 

[Stamkos4life]

Pasternak, more points this season and last than Nylander - Stanley Cup Finals Appearance - Gets paid less than Nylander.

McDavid, most dominant player in the NHL, made the second round of the playoffs once, has eclipsed 100 point plateau twice including winning a scoring title - Matthews gets paid almost as much.

Matthews and Nylander shouldn't be getting near amount the money they are being paid because they are unproven and their comparables are far superior. Same logic applies to Marner. I don't give a **** about cap percentages, and I certainly don't give a **** about comparables but the fact that these guys are getting paid more than actual Stanley Cup winners is a disgrace. Our GM is weak and Nylander should have been traded the moment his contract demands were made to set a precedent. Instead he was rewarded financially for holding out and given a verbal no trade clause by our Peter Pan general manager. This rebuild is over, and this core ain't winning a thing with four players taking up 50 percent or more of our cap space.

Your first paragraph is slightly off.

Still, nylander's best season during his elc was 61 points and 22 goals. Pasta's best was 74 points and 34 goals (in 75 games).

I included goals because many in this thread keep saying that goal scorers are paid more and that marner should be paid less.

Yet those same posters have no problem with nylander being paid more than pasta because he had two 60 point seasons and was therefore more proven. Marner has two 60 point seasons, a 90 point season and has led our team in scoring for two straight years. The hypocracy is astounding.

I agree with the rest though.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Pasternak, more points this season and last than Nylander - Stanley Cup Finals Appearance - Gets paid less than Nylander.

McDavid, most dominant player in the NHL, made the second round of the playoffs once, has eclipsed 100 point plateau twice including winning a scoring title - Matthews gets paid almost as much.

Matthews and Nylander shouldn't be getting near amount the money they are being paid because they are unproven and their comparables are far superior. Same logic applies to Marner. I don't give a **** about cap percentages, and I certainly don't give a **** about comparables but the fact that these guys are getting paid more than actual Stanley Cup winners is a disgrace. Our GM is weak and Nylander should have been traded the moment his contract demands were made to set a precedent. Instead he was rewarded financially for holding out and given a verbal no trade clause by our Peter Pan general manager. This rebuild is over, and this core ain't winning a thing with four players taking up 50 percent or more of our cap space.

ELC - Prior to contract
Pasta (0.72 PPG)
Nylander (0.73 PPG)

They were very comparable. Now that we know the future, Pasta is a MASSIVE bargain. I would have paid more for Nylander after looking at mins played and pp time.

 

[Kiwi]

You don't trade away a player of Marner's caliber, especially at his current age. You simply don't. You trade the Nylanders/Kadris/Zaitsevs/Marleaus etc to make it work.

If it makes the team better you trade him, I'm not keen on trading half the roster so Marner can make what he thinks he's worth (12.5M) which if true is just wow

He's a fantastic player and has a value to the team, once his demands exceed that his head should be on the block however

It is very funny how much of a marner fanboy he is, not that he is a big fan of marner because marner is a great young player.

Just That he resorts to calling people who disagree to even a minor extent fanboys of someone else the hypocrisy is very humorous

It drives me nuts, if your a fan of a certain player go for it, i dont think that way myself but you be you just dont turn around and excoriate people who are doing the exact same thing

 

[MyBudJT]

It absolutely boggles my mind how quick some people are willing to just give up on Marner. Its ridiculous.

This kid has and will continue to break records for this club.

You know how many players have scored more points in a season for the last 25 years by their U22 season? SEVEN.
You know how many players have scored more points in a season in our franchise's history? FIVE.
You know how many players have scored more assists in a season in our franchise's history? TWO.

Not only is Marner one of the most skilled players in the NHL, but he has also become one of our better PK options.

All this by the age of 22! He has shown nothing but growth since his rookie season... imagine what he can do when he is 24, 25, 26!!

But Nooooooo.... people want to trade him, because he wants to be compensated adequately. Ironically enough, these people never called out Nylander and Matthews demanding they get traded for signing above market value.