Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part IV

[thewave]

Saying that Marner is as good as Mathews is not bashing Mathews.
WHEN Auston is playing he is always a threat to score. There is no debating that. Nobody is questioning that.

Matthews is great when motivated. He started the season using his body, driving and scoring like nobody else while tenders were feeling out the equipment changes. He let it on the line, he got injured for the 3rd straight year. He came back, he was not the same, again. The first year injury was known, he did not miss time. If you adjust for the equipment changes the past two years, he has been a pt per game guy. It's good, not like McDavid though. I doubt he will be in the hunt for top 3 in pts over a full season. Great goal scorer though so full marks there.

 

[18leafsfan18]

nobody said Mathews was a bum, thanks for the reasonable response.

But should Mathews be paid Sid money? Why?

He is paid basically the same. 14.5 % vs 14.6.

Without using a contract that is no longer allowed by the league.

 

[thewave]

But what good are you if you only play 60 games a season?

That is supposed to be factored in to contracts, dependability is a thing. Injury prone is as well.

 

[Matthews34]

nobody said Mathews was a bum, thanks for the reasonable response.

But should Mathews be paid Sid money? Why?

Because he is a top 5 player in the world, top 2 under 22. Marner can take off eh!

 

[18leafsfan18]

That is supposed to be factored in to contracts, dependability is a thing. Injury prone is as well.

Is McDavid and Eichel injury prone ?

Both played 209 in ELC, Matthews played 212.

 

[biotk]

I guess Sid shouldn't go in The Hall because the middle of his career was ravaged by concussions. He's only played 82 games once in his career. What a bum!

I think the more important argument here is that claims made over games missed due to injury for Matthews and Marner are meaningless for predicting future games played. There is simply no correlation between getting injured in your first couple years and future health or being healthy for your first couple years meaning that you will healthy for subsequent years. People think there is - but there is not.

Crosby and Malkin have had injury plagued careers - but Crosby only missed 4 games in his first 2 years, and Malkin didn't miss any due to injury in his first 3 seasons. Lupul had great health in his first 3 seasons. Stamkos did for his first 5 seasons. Kessel played more than 70 games once in his first 4 seasons. Hasn't missed a game in 9 years since.

Sure if you have the kind of injuries that Lupul had, or if you play the way Lindros did. But otherwise, nope.

 

[PemIceKing]

No reason for marner to even talk to the leafs until after he's heard from other teams.

Even if there's no official offer sheet, just knowing teams ate willing to go to double digits will force the leafs hand.

Funny this is another example of the young GMs ineffective communication style. He said after the season it was vital they get marner done in June. Doesn't look like that will happen and unless nobody shows interest in marner, it's going to cost us.

Wonder how much he wishes he took that $9M x 8 offer the marner camp pitched last summer. Big league mistake. Big league.

It’s June 13. Are you a GM? Because I’m sure you could probably run the Leafs. They are in such hot water having all these superstars. Whatever will Toronto do. Please save them. I know MLSE has been waiting. Maybe dual roles GM and Coach?

 

[biotk]

Maybe dual roles GM and Coach?

And mascot and Zamboni driver.

 

[thewave]

I think the more important argument here is that claims made over games missed due to injury for Matthews and Marner are meaningless for predicting future games played. There is simply no correlation between getting injured in your first couple years and future health or being healthy for your first couple years meaning that you will healthy for subsequent years. People think there is - but there is not.

Crosby and Malkin have had injury plagued careers - but Crosby only missed 4 games in his first 2 years, and Malkin didn't miss any due to injury in his first 3 seasons. Lupul had great health in his first 3 seasons. Stamkos did for his first 5 seasons. Kessel played more than 70 games once in his first 4 seasons. Hasn't missed a game in 9 years since.

Sure if you have the kind of injuries that Lupul had, or if you play the way Lindros did. But otherwise, nope.

The big concerns are his are back and shoulder. One can end your career and the other take away your shot. Most concerned about the back injury tbh, shoulder may be more a nuisance where it keeps popping on him, both suck at a young age.

 

[MyBudJT]

Is McDavid and Eichel injury prone ?

Both played 209 in ELC, Matthews played 212.

Didn't both only have one injury? Matthews has had 4 or 5 now....

 

[PemIceKing]

People comparing Matthews and Marner is interesting but when you get down to it the Leafs fans and organization wants a cup. My thoughts:

Matthews is a 6’4”, 230lb CENTER who was drafted first overall and has been res-signed. He was the priority signing this year and it got done. He used his size in the playoffs this year and showed some nastiness. He is what this franchise has needed for years. He is only going to get better.

Marner is a 5’11”, 175lb WINGER who was drafted 4th overall. Very good player but very small and had trouble against bigger bodies in the playoffs. This is a problem. I really wonder if he can stand the NHL rigours of four rounds in the playoffs. Unfortunately you can’t teach size. Fun to watch, love his story, but for $12.5......see ya.

 

[93LEAFS]

People comparing Matthews and Marner is interesting but when you get down to it the Leafs fans and organization wants a cup. My thoughts:

Matthews is a 6’4”, 230lb CENTER who was drafted first overall and has been res-signed. He was the priority signing this year and it got done. He used his size in the playoffs this year and showed some nastiness. He is what this franchise has needed for years. He is only going to get better.

Marner is a 5’11”, 175lb WINGER who was drafted 4th overall. Very good player but very small and had trouble against bigger bodies in the playoffs. This is a problem. I really wonder if he can stand the NHL rigours of four rounds in the playoffs. Unfortunately you can’t teach size. Fun to watch, love his story, but for $12.5......see ya.

Small guys have succeeded in playoffs for years. I mean, just look at Patrick Kane. Matthews had trouble vs Bergeron and Marchand, and Marner did this year. Marner lit up the playoffs the year before when he got the easier match-up.

 

[HolyCrap]

People comparing Matthews and Marner is interesting but when you get down to it the Leafs fans and organization wants a cup. My thoughts:

Matthews is a 6’4”, 230lb CENTER who was drafted first overall and has been res-signed. He was the priority signing this year and it got done. He used his size in the playoffs this year and showed some nastiness. He is what this franchise has needed for years. He is only going to get better.

Marner is a 5’11”, 175lb WINGER who was drafted 4th overall. Very good player but very small and had trouble against bigger bodies in the playoffs. This is a problem. I really wonder if he can stand the NHL rigours of four rounds in the playoffs. Unfortunately you can’t teach size. Fun to watch, love his story, but for $12.5......see ya.

And that’s probably being very generous on Marners height and weight. The NHL seems to do that a lot.

 

[PemIceKing]

Small guys have succeeded in playoffs for years. I mean, just look at Patrick Kane. Matthews had trouble vs Bergeron and Marchand, and Marner did this year. Marner lit up the playoffs the year before when he got the easier match-up.

No doubt small Guys sometimes do. Matthews was able to bull through those players this year and provided clutch scoring.
Marner had trouble in playoffs this year in my eyes. At $12.5 not worth it.

 

[93LEAFS]

No doubt small Guys sometimes do. Matthews was able to bull through those players this year and provided clutch scoring.
Marner had trouble in playoffs this year in my eyes. At $12.5 not worth it.

He didn't bull through Bergeron, because Bergeron was matched vs Tavares/Marner, and last year he struggled vs them. Marner excelled getting the easier match-up. There is no proof bigger guys tend to succeed more in the playoffs.

 

[PemIceKing]

He didn't bull through Bergeron, because Bergeron was matched vs Tavares/Marner, and last year he struggled vs them. Marner excelled getting the easier match-up. There is no proof bigger guys tend to succeed more in the


STL says hi

 

[PemIceKing]

He didn't bull through Bergeron, because Bergeron was matched vs Tavares/Marner, and last year he struggled vs them. Marner excelled getting the easier match-up. There is no proof bigger guys tend to succeed more in the playoffs.

STL says Hi

 

[93LEAFS]

STL says Hi

Do you have actual evidence that smaller players scoring goes down more? And, I meant individual players, not overall team construction. Your argument is literally Matthews can produce in the playoffs and Marner can't. Yet, both have excelled when they got the easier match-up and both have struggled when getting the tougher one. I don't see how there is an argument one has been a better playoff player than the other.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Didn't both only have one injury? Matthews has had 4 or 5 now....

Eichel missed time in each of his last 3 seasons

 

[PemIceKing]

Do you have actual evidence that smaller players scoring goes down more? And, I meant individual players, not overall team construction. Your argument is literally Matthews can produce in the playoffs and Marner can't. Yet, both have excelled when they got the easier match-up and both have struggled when getting the tougher one. I don't see how there is an argument one has been a better playoff player than the other.

Do you? Not that I really care. At $12.5 Marner can beat it. I believe in huge centres and huge D. Nothing is going to change that.

 

[BertCorbeau]

People comparing Matthews and Marner is interesting but when you get down to it the Leafs fans and organization wants a cup. My thoughts:

Matthews is a 6’4”, 230lb CENTER who was drafted first overall and has been res-signed. He was the priority signing this year and it got done. He used his size in the playoffs this year and showed some nastiness. He is what this franchise has needed for years. He is only going to get better.

Marner is a 5’11”, 175lb WINGER who was drafted 4th overall. Very good player but very small and had trouble against bigger bodies in the playoffs. This is a problem. I really wonder if he can stand the NHL rigours of four rounds in the playoffs. Unfortunately you can’t teach size. Fun to watch, love his story, but for $12.5......see ya.

He was arguably the Leafs best player in the first round of the playoffs last year against Boston.

 

[Notsince67]

20 point gap. Do you think that's insignificant?

Matthews rate doesnt even get him to 90 in a full season. Edit i just added his last 82 games together

 

[BertCorbeau]

Really hope that Marner paid attention to the Nylander situation, and how the large parts of fanbase (and media) have turned on Nylander and vilified him.

It's pretty easy to see that we're on this path in these threads already.

Marner could at least make himself look better by signing a deal sooner.

 

[Notsince67]

He is there, when he plays he is always a threat to score.

How does this turn into a bashing Matthew's thread. He has the potential to be one of the best Leafs to ever play.

Some Leafs fans will never be happy.

Marner is amazing, but he is not on Matthews level and doesn't play the same position. He shouldn't be paid like it. Plain and simple.

Plays with tougher competition and is more versatile. No he is above his level

 

[Bigmarycombo]

That's assuming Matthews signed when his current deal runs out. I think that's a crazy something to just expect to happen, and ignores why it is so risky to give him 5 years. You walked an elite player right to UFA while making him the 2nd highest paid player in the league. That's a joke.

And on top of that the last year is a nmc

That means we have to know by the end of year four if he is going to sign with us or try free agency.

Just a terrible contract
Nothing for the team there everything favours Matthews.