Salary Cap: Marner contract signing watch discussion.

[17 Clark]

I heard kip mention that Marner asked for 9x8 years and that dubas countered with 7.5x8.

It’s a good idea to play hardball you idiot Kyle was probably the best player on the team.I think William played like shit so he wouldn’t get traded . I don’t think you can give the man away for free

 

[ToneDog]

He always seems to say the thing that will get him the most views. One day it's "Leafs should sign Marner to 15 mil contract", next day it's "Leafs should take the 4 first round picks". Obviously I'm over exaggerating a bit there.

Just getting closer and closer to a click bait hot takes machine.

Yeah he might just be trolling Leaf fans. Pisses me off cause he is making his living off the Toronto market. I wouldn't mind if he was doing it from the prairies.

 

[4thline]

Regardless, having Matthews and Tavares take up a higher cap percentage then what Crosby/Malkin made in their ufa years is a flat out joke.

It's been explained to you twice now.

 

[18leafsfan18]

The simple answer is Nylander but the unknown is what can they get for Marner or Matthews (JT probably has NMC) and how much can they save in cap space??

As another poster mentioned before, the starting ask for Marner is 4 first round picks or equivalent. So he would fetch a very good return.

I really like Marner and want the Leafs to lock him up but if he is going to be unreasonable they unfortunately have to let him go.

For all of the arguments his camp will have for him making Matthews money, the Leafs have as much, maybe more for him making less.

 

[SprDaVE]

I must be smoking some hard drugs but I don't think there's anyway Marner is traded anytime soon and I feel like I'm crazy just saying this reading these comments.

It'll take some time but I feel confident that it will get done by the draft. It's going to be a waiting game between Rantanen, Point and Marner.

 

[Trapper]

The simple answer is Nylander but the unknown is what can they get for Marner or Matthews (JT probably has NMC) and how much can they save in cap space??

The bottom line, Nylander or Marner, it’s what we’ve been saying from the start.
In order to have a fully functional team, it’s very difficult to retain everyone.

If Matthews/Marner/Nylander were all defensemen, what would you be looking for?

You need balance, you need quality depth and you have a cap.

 

[Joedoggy]

Good value for money next year or the year after, piss our pants laughing at how Dubas ripped off the player agents or representatives

Remember- the Leafs have an actual analytics department- a department! - and this is the Golden Age of Reason in Leafs management- why this matters is that they Leafs hope to both project where their players will be in the future and where the salary cap will be. This matters so as to pay players for tomorrow's reasonably anticipated and not merely hoped for production and not pay them for yesterday's production and the future drop -off which is the old way of doing things, over and again.

Paying players today for tomorrow's uncertain success has to be more than guesswork and you need real Newtonian or better calculus and margins of error and think about them long and hard, and fluke things like injuries. But injuries happen randomly, and perhaps that too can be factored in. But what we do know for certain, is that for veterans, and paying veterans for yesterday's success must raise the law of diminishing returns- that player is getting older and slower. Whereas paying for future success, you are paying today for what you project you will have tomorrow. The risk is different- but in a salary cap era, paying for the future today is like playing blackjack and you may need to logically need to double-down, (that means you, Mitch Marner) but if you hit it, and you are counting cards (Analytics) you can win big, and going for veterans and paying for past accomplishments and hope they can be repeated means you are stuck at the end of the deal with dead weight- Praise be to future looking Dubas and the new methods, the Age of Reason, and math as stupid move preventatives

Remember too the explosive growth of the salary cap. If Bettman can keep delivering big US Northeast markets to the Stanley Cup, along with another top 10 or 15 US market, keep the Canadian reality at bay (You know that the Stanley Cup is American property that Canadians culturally worship, right?) resulting that big, fat US TV deal, then that cap is going to keep on booming. Today's stupid deal has great trade value for its cheapness in 2 years time. That's how it is, even if it seems insane.

Paying players for future success is " chrystal ball stuff"...never mind the chance of injury..being a team sport, if line mates do not produce theres a direct impact on player success. Lastly having a coach that thinks he see's the came better than everyone(babcock) the player is at risk of demotion/Lack of TOI / and or sitting you..simply because due to coaching's bowel movement on any given day...Management will also start forcing on ice assets to play together so to prop up stars stats..when this occurs its a downward spiral.

When players do not trust the coach ..the player never gives a home town discount to be part of the future..cause the player does not see any future which is understandable with this coaching. Paying 3 players 10 mil on a single team is crazy thinking anyway...what did the Leafs think they had the Market cornered on stars?
A good chunk of money spent on a Tough bottom 6 would go a lot further than when it comes to being a contender.

Overpaid coach/players often leads to what were seeing

 

[18leafsfan18]

The bottom line, Nylander or Marner, it’s what we’ve been saying from the start.
In order to have a fully functional team, it’s very difficult to retain everyone.

If Matthews/Marner/Nylander were all defensemen, what would you be looking for?

You need balance, you need quality depth and you have a cap.

They can definitely make it work if they sign Marner at a manageable number.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Paying players for future success is " chrystal ball stuff"...never mind the chance of injury..being a team sport, if line mates do not produce theres a direct impact on player success. Lastly having a coach that thinks he see's the came better than everyone(babcock) the player is at risk of demotion/Lack of TOI / and or sitting you..simply because due to coaching's bowel movement on any given day...Management will also start forcing on ice assets to play together so to prop up stars stats..when this occurs its a downward spiral.

When players do not trust the coach ..the player never gives a home town discount to be part of the future..cause the player does not see any future which is understandable with this coaching. Paying 3 players 10 mil on a single team is crazy thinking anyway...what did the Leafs think they had the Market cornered on stars?
A good chunk of money spent on a Tough bottom 6 would go a lot further than when it comes to being a contender.

All those "great contracts" were players who was paid based on potential, not on stats. Otherwise they would have been paid more. Most good teams have hit homeruns on paying someone and having them outplay the contract.

Why is paying 3 players over 10 mil so crazy. The cap goes up every year. Eventually a lot of those contracts get to 10 or over. 5 years ago it would be crazy to pay 3 players over 7 mil, but now there are multiple teams that do that.

The whole double digits contracts is making everyone go crazy. Yes the Leafs have guys in double digits, but wait a couple years there will be plenty of players in double digits.

 

[ULF_55]

As another poster mentioned before, the starting ask for Marner is 4 first round picks or equivalent. So he would fetch a very good return.

I really like Marner and want the Leafs to lock him up but if he is going to be unreasonable they unfortunately have to let him go.

For all of the arguments his camp will have for him making Matthews money, the Leafs have as much, maybe more for him making less.

Yes, a Marner return, either the 4 1st. round picks, or in an auction to the other 30 teams in the league would be substantial.

Trouble with signing him to the same contract as Tavares and Mattews is the Leafs are really placed under major restraints.

You can easily keep Nylander and Johnsson/Kapanen and call up Bracco (Marner light) for that money. Marner is good offensively, but he can't fill more than 1 position.

We'll know within a couple months.

 

[Menzinger]

The bottom line, Nylander or Marner, it’s what we’ve been saying from the start.
In order to have a fully functional team, it’s very difficult to retain everyone.

If Matthews/Marner/Nylander were all defensemen, what would you be looking for?

You need balance, you need quality depth and you have a cap.

But its literally not an either or situation.

There is room to shed cap elsewhere. You dont move a core guy until it becomes almost the only option left

 

[Mugzy97]

In 5 years Marner will likely be an RFA, Matthews too, and likely be moving on.

Hahah yeah ok.

This is far from "likely"

 

[18leafsfan18]

Yes, a Marner return, either the 4 1st. round picks, or in an auction to the other 30 teams in the league would be substantial.

Trouble with signing him to the same contract as Tavares and Mattews is the Leafs are really placed under major restraints.

You can easily keep Nylander and Johnsson/Kapanen and call up Bracco (Marner light) for that money. Marner is good offensively, but he can't fill more than 1 position.

We'll know within a couple months.

I don't think he will get Mattews or Tavares money. They play the premium position and he was gifted a true #1 center to play with all year. He shouldn't get anything over 10.

But, like you say we will know within a few months.

 

[Mugzy97]

Ffs it’s getting painful here. Boy wonder, overpayment, team is screwed, etc etc with even seeing how it all plays out

Good team = complain about high payed players
Bad team = complain about bad team

 

[Nineteen67]

Hahah yeah ok.

This is far from "likely"

I can’t see Marner signing for more than 5 years. At least he shouldn’t.

 

[DarkKnight]

Little tidbit from Dreger this morning, Marner is tops on team in endorsements.

 

[ULF_55]

Good team = complain about high payed players
Bad team = complain about bad team

I'd like to be complaining about how they screw up in the 2nd. round.

But to get there they needed to have their offensive players be offensive.

When it comes to negotiations, Marner's last bit of play isn't something they'll be ignoring on management side, and something they'll want to floss over on Marner's side.

He wasn't very good in the playoffs.

 

[ULF_55]

Little tidbit from Dreger this morning, Marner is tops on team in endorsements.

I'm sure he could get endorsements in Edmonton, Vancouver or Calgary. He could be the new Green Drop guy ...

 

[ACC1224]

Who do you think is better out of these 4?
Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander?

You keep the best 3 and make sure you have a team to support them with the other.

Pretty obvious who the 4th one is there.
Ringo might be a good nickname for Nylander.

 

[ULF_55]

Pretty obvious who the 4th one is there.
Ringo might be a good nickname for Nylander.

Yeah, that's an easy on.

Matthews-Tavares
Marner
Nylander

 

[18leafsfan18]

Pretty obvious who the 4th one is there.
Ringo might be a good nickname for Nylander.

Wonder why he is paid 7 AAV and not 11 AAV.

 

[BlueForever75]

If Marner wanted 9mill x 8 yrs and Dubas was offering 7.5million x 8 yrs. Meet in the middle at 8.25 million on a 8 yr deal and call it a day.

Marner didn't produce enough to ask for higher in my eyes.

 

[TheDoldrums]

. Imagine the reaction last summer if we gave Marner $9.5 million after 69 points in 82 games.

 

[Trapper]

Yeah, that's an easy on.

Matthews-Tavares
Marner
Nylander

The question for Dubas (and us as fans), what’s the rest of the team going to look like.
We barely got anything out of the bottom 6 and Gardiner/Dermott had a few rough moments in the playoffs. Now you are losing 2 D and want to push Dermott higher backed up by more rookies.

 

[ACC1224]

. Imagine the reaction last summer if we gave Marner $9.5 million after 69 points in 82 games.

8.5 would have gotten it done and the reaction today would be favourable.