Salary Cap: Marner contract signing watch discussion.

[nuck]

You are not alone. He is a shooter not a playmaker and Marner is a better overall player and with a lot more up side. His assist totals are high this year as he carried the mail a lot. Similar to JT who always had more assists. Like JT he is a shooter.

Marner has 233 SOG and Panarin had 191 this season so while Panarin may be a better shooter that still looks like pass first to me. JT has 250+ shots most years and 286 this season. Cam Atkinson had 41g on a line with Panarin and Kane had 46g so I think he knows how to support a shooter. Mitch has the bigger upside for sure but I think Panarin would have career high numbers if used the same way.

 

[hullsy47]

But as the previous post showed, the leafs spent a higher cap percentage on their two than any other team ever.

Do you really think the MAtthews Tavares tandem deserves a higher cap percentage than Malkin/Crosby in their primes?

Then leafs are getting hosed in these contracts, and you should be far more concerned.

The fact that the leafs sucked in the past with ****ty centres doesn’t excuse the dramatic overpayments of our current centres.

I think many teams are gonna get hosed
its the cap era

 

[diceman934]

Anyone thinking that a team grabbing Marner would be anywhere near being a bottom team with him playing there for a year, needs a reality check

You are right. What kind of people think this type of stuff.

Scott Stevens cost 5 1st round picks when St. Louis signed him and those 5 picks resulted in only two NHLers taken with those 5 picks that St. Louis gave up were Brendan Witt and Brendan Witt and Sergei Gonchar.

 

[Leafsfan74]

You are right. What kind of people think this type of stuff.

Scott Stevens cost 5 1st round picks when St. Louis signed him and those 5 picks resulted in only two NHLers taken with those 5 picks that St. Louis gave up were Brendan Witt and Brendan Witt and Sergei Gonchar.

That's if the Leafs decided to go to the draft with them all in tow. I might argue they are more apt to flip them to other teams who are looking to unload high priced talent at the deadline and offseason. If the cards are played right you can improve 2-3 positions with the use of those picks along with the other team eating a lower contract or two along the way.

We forget, not every team is making hand over fist as the Leafs are able to. If another team saved $5M by moving a good player and gets solid, low salary possibilities in return, many teams will make the move.

I believe we would have seen many more moves this past deadline if other teams were willing to part with 1st Rounders.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

It’s going to be tough. We had a lot of good players come in at the same time. Not everyone has the luxury of having a superstar trickle in every couple of years. TB, Pitts, Washington, Boston have some aged stars whose large contracts have decreased due to cap increase. We’ll have that too, Just all part of the economics of the NHL. We’ll be good long enough for our star player contracts to be washed out by cap increase. If we follow TB’s path, we’d finish in the basement again a couple times and pick up a couple more high picks for a second generation and a couple low homeruns over a decade.

 

[Buds17]

Malkin/Crosby were in their primes signing ufa years when they signed their CURRENT contracts, which they’re already six years into and they won two cups during.

It’s a joke that the Matthews/Tavares tandem makes a higher cap percentage than them. A complete and utter ****ing joke.

Crosby was signed prior to the contract term not being able to exceed eight years for a re-signing. The heavier term lowers the cap hit. Converting Crosby's contract to an eight year deal pushes his cap hit past Tavares and Matthews, and would make him the league's highest paid player. Sure, Dubas in theory had the opportunity to get Matthews signed for eight years like Malkin is, but Tavares wasn't a possibility there due to not being a re-signing. Tavares' cap hit on an eight year deal looks quite different (lower) as well. The respective situations of the two teams doesn't make for the easiest comparison.

 

[Buds17]

Anyone thinking that a team grabbing Marner would be anywhere near being a bottom team with him playing there for a year, needs a reality check

Think I'd agree. Tendering an offer sheet should still be looked at essentially as a trade would. A team using this method would believe they were giving up the lesser package in comparison to a trade with the Leafs for "known" players and/or prospects and/or picks. The team would also have time to attempt to lower the draft placement of each of the picks.

 

[diceman934]

Weak argument and I bet Dubas bites. Stone is a better player right now and signed 9.5 over 8 all UFA years with knowledge of the cap rising.

Let him sign an offersheet if he wants 10. Take the 4 1sts and sign Panarin at 10mil per. I don’t care if he’s a Toronto kid and plays with heart.

Stone is simply not better. His best year is this year based on Production and he is older and finished 21 points behind Marner. Stone skating is an issue and his contract will be one of the worse in a few years as his skating will deteriorate. He is a lot older and at his peak production at 73 points while Marner is still improving.

 

[diceman934]

That's if the Leafs decided to go to the draft with them all in tow. I might argue they are more apt to flip them to other teams who are looking to unload high priced talent at the deadline and offseason. If the cards are played right you can improve 2-3 positions with the use of those picks along with the other team eating a lower contract or two along the way.

We forget, not every team is making hand over fist as the Leafs are able to. If another team saved $5M by moving a good player and gets solid, low salary possibilities in return, many teams will make the move.

I believe we would have seen many more moves this past deadline if other teams were willing to part with 1st Rounders.

The cap for every team is the same no one is going to flip good players to us for low cost players and even if we could find such a team the cap hit of the player still needs to fit under the cap. We will be the one looking to purge higher paid players for lower paid players not the other way around

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Also in their primes when they signed their original contracts too.
The point still stands.
.....do you actually hate the Tavares contract as well?

I understand having to overpay ufa’s. Not really sure why he got a similar cap percentage as Crosby and Malkin on their ufa contracts... but still. At the very least, I understand having to overpay ufa’s.

Regardless, having Matthews and Tavares take up a higher cap percentage then what Crosby/Malkin made in their ufa years is a flat out joke.

 

[Dragao6]

Bridge him... 3 years at 8.5M...let him prove hes a consist 90+ player. Were expected to pay him now anyways

By then Marleau kessel, and horton is long gone and if hes consistant he gets what he deserves and others move out.

Leafs gave him tavares to play with, has to be worth something...

 

[BertCorbeau]

Keep the conversation about Marner's contract please.

 

[Notsince67]

Bridge him... 3 years at 8.5M...let him prove hes a consist 90+ player. Were expected to pay him now anyways

By then Marleau kessel, and horton is long gone and if hes consistant he gets what he deserves and others move out.

Leafs gave him tavares to play with, has to be worth something...

Just stop. The train has left the station. Marner is getting paid large. It is over. It is done. A vote will not be held.

 

[Ciao]

Keep the conversation about Marner's contract please.

Sorry Bert. Didn't see your post before my last reply. Please delete if need be.

 

[KPower]

8 years, $88 million.

 

[JustJokinenAround]

You spelled Nylander's name wrong! At $5.5M, Nylander could have had a NTC and an NHC. NHC = No hitting clause!

hey, nylander hit cohlman in game 3!

 

[Dragao6]

Just stop. The train has left the station. Marner is getting paid large. It is over. It is done. A vote will not be held.

Why


I dont understand how it's so black and white for these guys there are so many elite players....THIS YEAR outproduced the guy and have been doing it for many years have a much lower cap hit then whats suggested...is this stuff not all about compariables
1 DAMN SEASON OF 90 POINTS...thatsbhis career as an elite right now

 

[Nineteen67]

What an exhaustive list this is.



Puts what into perspective? That the cost of keeping your top talent increases as the cap goes up?

In 5 years from now teams will be looking back on us wishing "damn, wish we could have signed our top talent when the cap was that low". It's a constantly-moving target.

In 5 years Marner will likely be an RFA, Matthews too, and likely be moving on.

 

[diceman934]

Why


I dont understand how it's so black and white for these guys there are so many elite players....THIS YEAR outproduced the guy and have been doing it for many years have a much lower cap hit then whats suggested...is this stuff not all about compariables
1 DAMN SEASON OF 90 POINTS...thatsbhis career as an elite right now

A season and a half in 3 years of his ELC is a good barometer of things to come never mind his rookie season when he was hurt and suffering from mono playing on the 3rd line. He is a star and our internal cap hit is an issue. We have Dubas to thank for this. He has lead our team in scoring the past two years as well none of his comparables have done so.

 

[Dragao6]

A season and a half in 3 years of his ELC is a good barometer of things to come never mind his rookie season when he was hurt and suffering from mono playing on the 3rd line. He is a star and our internal cap hit is an issue. We have Dubas to thank for this. He has lead our team in scoring the past two years as well none of his comparables have done so.

Ok just explain me this then...we apparently could have had marner signed last summer at 9M....even if true...2 years at 60 pts each now warrants 9M?

I'm a huge marner fan, hoping hes a lifer, my fav of team but this is getting ridiculous, specially with NO playoffs success whatsoever

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Bridge him... 3 years at 8.5M...let him prove hes a consist 90+ player. Were expected to pay him now anyways

By then Marleau kessel, and horton is long gone and if hes consistant he gets what he deserves and others move out.

Leafs gave him tavares to play with, has to be worth something...

I would be ok with that. But would Marner?

If it’s a 3 year deal, another team could offer him 10x3 without having to give up too much.

 

[Notsince67]

Why


I dont understand how it's so black and white for these guys there are so many elite players....THIS YEAR outproduced the guy and have been doing it for many years have a much lower cap hit then whats suggested...is this stuff not all about compariables
1 DAMN SEASON OF 90 POINTS...thatsbhis career as an elite right now

Over 90 for 82 consecutive regular season games as of Dec1. He has already proven it. You are moving the goalposts.

 

[Nineteen67]

To anyone worried about Marner getting an offer, I say don't. In fact, rejoice. If someone wants to give me 4 first rounders, I'm willing to part with a number of players.

I can covert those first rounders into top line, even all star players who are not a good fit on another teams rebuild or what have you. Just wait until the deadline and you can find a number of teams willing to part with very good talent for First Rounders. Even if the risk is that they will be low picks in the first round.

It's a business. We can't fall in love with players who might prefer a few bucks more to be somewhere else.

If he gets an offer of 36 million = 12x3 then it wouldn’t be 4 first rounders and with qualifying offers if would be tun to be 12x5 until he’s a UFA.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Over 90 for 82 consecutive regular season games as of Dec1. He has already proven it. You are moving the goalposts.

Rantanen out scored Marner over the past two seasons. Is he also making an 11x8 type contract?

Marners contract needs to be in line with Rantanen, Point, and Aho.

 

[Dragao6]

Over 90 for 82 consecutive regular season games as of Dec1. He has already proven it. You are moving the goalposts.

If you say so

So now were picking dates to make arguments...how many points in April?

k let's see if dubas has grown some balls because I'd be ready to move on from our little superstar.
Well have 3 elite millionaires, a cutie rw millionaire and 0 playoff wins in 7 years time