Salary Cap: Marner contract signing watch discussion.

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Notsince67

Papi and the Lamplighters
Apr 27, 2018
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Ok just explain me this then...we apparently could have had marner signed last summer at 9M....even if true...2 years at 60 pts each now warrants 9M?

I'm a huge marner fan, hoping hes a lifer, my fav of team but this is getting ridiculous, specially with NO playoffs success whatsoever
You sign him based on where he should be producing. He was 69 points but trending over a 90 rate after January of last year. This has already been discussed at length. Based on what he has accomplished he would be a Patrick Kane comparable in his rfa contract 9.6MM x 5 had Dubas not screwed the pooch. 9 MM x8 looks like a steal. Not hard to believe he could have been wrestled down to 8 to 8.5MM x 7
 

Notsince67

Papi and the Lamplighters
Apr 27, 2018
16,376
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Rantanen out scored Marner over the past two seasons. Is he also making an 11x8 type contract?

Marners contract needs to be in line with Rantanen, Point, and Aho.
Internal comparables are always looked at first. Marner would have signed for what was the market if Dubas hadnt of messed stuff up.
 
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Dragao6

Registered User
Dec 25, 2013
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You sign him based on where he should be producing. He was 69 points but trending over a 90 rate after January of last year. This has already been discussed at length. Based on what he has accomplished he would be a Patrick Kane comparable in his rfa contract 9.6MM x 5 had Dubas not screwed the pooch. 9 MM x8 looks like a steal. Not hard to believe he could have been wrestled down to 8 to 8.5MM x 7
Patrick kane...2 Stanley cups
Nylander signed based on your argument..how is that working out?? Can u imagine marner gets 11.5 and same thing happens to him...?
Bye dubas
 

Notsince67

Papi and the Lamplighters
Apr 27, 2018
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Patrick kane...2 Stanley cups
Nylander signed based on your argument..hownisbthat working out?? Can u imagine marner gets 11.5 and same thing happens to him...?
Bye dubas
What does cups have to do with it. Mcjesus didn't win one nor has Matthews. Why does marner get all the barriers?
 
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Dragao6

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Because mcjesus and Matthew's are elite center that scored in nhl from day 1, mcjesus already winning top player awards

Its contracts not based on potential but production
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
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Because mcjesus and Matthew's are elite center that scored in nhl from day 1, mcjesus already winning top player awards

Its contracts not based on potential but production

On the other hand, the Leafs have built a competitive program with Matthews front and center, and the Leafs are where you'd expect the Oilers to be as a group, which I would argue is more significant than McDavid's individual success and largely horrendous team situation.
 
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Dragao6

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On the other hand, the Leafs have built a competitive program with Matthews front and center, and the Leafs are where you'd expect the Oilers to be as a group, which I would argue is more significant than McDavid's individual success and largely horrendous team situation.
So ur blaming Edmonton's poor results on macdavids play?
 

Willchel Marlynder

(philer bozel)
Jul 15, 2010
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Windsor, ON
Because mcjesus and Matthew's are elite center that scored in nhl from day 1, mcjesus already winning top player awards

Its contracts not based on potential but production

Matthews is overpaid. McDavid is the best player in the NHL and should have set a cap on what players should earn for the next little while. I'd rather have Matthews at McDavid's contract than Matthews at his current contract. I love the guy but Dubas got bamboozled. Hopefully market comparables will actually mean something with the Marner contract.
 

AreBe

This is the Real Are Be and not a Burner account!
Apr 1, 2013
880
313
Exactly this.

4 first rounders and $10+ million to spend in numerous other ways just might actually give the team the breathing room and roster flexibility it needs.

I guess that's why I'm not as spooked by Marner's perceived "leverage" that some posters feel he has.

The Leafs should firmly stand their ground and keep their offer in the single digits.
Spring has sprung and the grass has riz

Letting Marner go for 4 constitutive first round picks means an idiot GM has singed Mariner so you got to like where you will be drafting from - maybe be goofy, and get the first overall pick 4 straight years, and insist on always drafting midgets.

But letting Marner get offer sheeted might actually be pretty darn good. "Hello, Edmonton Oilers, you don't have the guts to give us 4 consecutive first round picks," cause that's what it is

Through the Leafs new commitment to the Age of Reason, they are going to hit on a better than average rate in the draft. And with a very poorly run team giving us 4 fist round picks, we may pluck an unrestricted free agent from them, take steps to make them worse to help our picks get better, get something better than a Leafs Nation favorite, a grinding widget!
 
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Dragao6

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Matthews is overpaid. McDavid is the best player in the NHL and should have set a cap on what players should earn for the next little while. I'd rather have Matthews at McDavid's contract than Matthews at his current contract. I love the guy but Dubas got bamboozled. Hopefully market comparables will actually mean something with the Marner contract.
I also agree...even though Matthew's scores for fun at times I also thought his contract was overpaid as he needs to do more, specially playoffs which he started to this year.
 
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DarkKnight

Professional Amateur
Jan 17, 2017
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The more we argue about Marner, the more it becomes apparent just what a ridiculous situation we've put ourselves in. His agent said he wasn't negotiating during the season, that was made quite clear. You knew the kid was poised for a big year, that was also quite clear. So why are we sitting here? Because you had some strategy to sign Nylander first? Sound on one level, but completely lacking pragmatism. Dubas misread the Nylander camp, even though there was every indication from the get go they were playing hardball. As soon as it became apparent that Willie was a real possibility to hold out, I expected some urgency with regard to a Marner, the Dubas strategy now outdated. Many people voiced the dangers letting Marner come into this year without a contract and now here we sit. I'll admit, it's worse than I thought, but that's only because Dubas signed the other two to top dollar, low term, paydays, exasperating the Marner situation.

It's just so disappointing to be sitting here contemplating trading such a treat of a player, when there was another way. I firmly believe we could have locked up Marner for 8ish with term last September. Tons of bonuses, very attractive. And yet...
 

AreBe

This is the Real Are Be and not a Burner account!
Apr 1, 2013
880
313
I also agree...even though Matthew's scores for fun at times I also thought his contract was overpaid as he needs to do more, specially playoffs which he started to this year.

Salalry cap is inflationary

Better to overpay today for tomorrow's increasing return with youth than be punished for paying for yesterday's results with diminishing returns - that is what you should fear.

Today's bad contract is a bargain 2 years from now. The cap and wages keeps going up, it is not stationary

Be grateful for Dubas and his commitment to analytics- we have the best damn front office in hockey - rejoice and celebrate. With more young speedsters coming up from the AHL and no doubt a reclamation project and a speedster from the KHL, we can kick it up a gear!
 

Willchel Marlynder

(philer bozel)
Jul 15, 2010
11,423
4,699
Windsor, ON
The more we argue about Marner, the more it becomes apparent just what a ridiculous situation we've put ourselves in. His agent said he wasn't negotiating during the season, that was made quite clear. You knew the kid was poised for a big year, that was also quite clear. So why are we sitting here? Because you had some strategy to sign Nylander first? Sound on one level, but completely lacking pragmatism. Dubas misread the Nylander camp, even though there was every indication from the get go they were playing hardball. As soon as it became apparent that Willie was a real possibility to hold out, I expected some urgency with regard to a Marner, the Dubas strategy now outdated. Many people voiced the dangers letting Marner come into this year without a contract and now here we sit. I'll admit, it's worse than I thought, but that's only because Dubas signed the other two to top dollar, low term, paydays, exasperating the Marner situation.

It's just so disappointing to be sitting here contemplating trading such a treat of a player, when there was another way. I firmly believe we could have locked up Marner for 8ish with term last September. Tons of bonuses, very attractive. And yet...

We don't know how things really played out. However, if Dubas didn't offer them 6-8 year deals at a reasonable cap hit last summer than that's a problem. Does Nylander still play hardball with Matthews and Marner locked up? Maybe but even then after the holdout, we'd have him back ay 6.9 or better.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
41,277
11,534
Can't really have 3 players making over 10, someone in that snack bracket will have to go.

Not next year but I have a feeling it's going to be Matthews before his 3rd season after the bonus I paid.
 

diceman934

Help is on the way.
Jul 31, 2010
17,370
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NHL player factory
Ok just explain me this then...we apparently could have had marner signed last summer at 9M....even if true...2 years at 60 pts each now warrants 9M?

I'm a huge marner fan, hoping hes a lifer, my fav of team but this is getting ridiculous, specially with NO playoffs success whatsoever
9m x 8 years was his ask. He likely would have took 8.5 x 8 years coming off of a 95 point pace for the last 40 games which included the playoffs. He finished with 69 points last year and in his rookie season he was hurt and had Mono. We will not get 8 years at 11m per now. He will get I feel 10.5 for 5 years of perhaps 6 years in we are lucky. 8 years will cost us more then we can afford. Why we did not sign him last summer for 8 years at 8.5 is beyond me. We just signed JT and they were to play together there was no risk.
 

Willchel Marlynder

(philer bozel)
Jul 15, 2010
11,423
4,699
Windsor, ON
Salalry cap is inflationary

Better to overpay today for tomorrow's increasing return with youth than be punished for paying for yesterday's results with diminishing returns - that is what you should fear.

Today's bad contract is a bargain 2 years from now. The cap and wages keeps going up, it is not stationary

Be grateful for Dubas and his commitment to analytics- we have the best damn front office in hockey - rejoice and celebrate. With more young speedsters coming up from the AHL and no doubt a reclamation project and a speedster from the KHL, we can kick it up a gear!

That's not true. These situations are contingent on the outcome. Was it better for Boston to lock Pasta up at 6.6 or should they have bridged him just to make sure he's the real deal and then proceed to pay him 8 or 9 million?

It's not always better to overpay today for tomorrows increasing return. In the situation that pertains to Matthews and Marner it would have been much better to pay for yesterday's results if their agents would have allowed it.
 
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ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
25,509
24,807
Richmond Hill, ON
The more we argue about Marner, the more it becomes apparent just what a ridiculous situation we've put ourselves in. His agent said he wasn't negotiating during the season, that was made quite clear. You knew the kid was poised for a big year, that was also quite clear. So why are we sitting here? Because you had some strategy to sign Nylander first? Sound on one level, but completely lacking pragmatism. Dubas misread the Nylander camp, even though there was every indication from the get go they were playing hardball. As soon as it became apparent that Willie was a real possibility to hold out, I expected some urgency with regard to a Marner, the Dubas strategy now outdated. Many people voiced the dangers letting Marner come into this year without a contract and now here we sit. I'll admit, it's worse than I thought, but that's only because Dubas signed the other two to top dollar, low term, paydays, exasperating the Marner situation.

It's just so disappointing to be sitting here contemplating trading such a treat of a player, when there was another way. I firmly believe we could have locked up Marner for 8ish with term last September. Tons of bonuses, very attractive. And yet...

Dubas has an out. Get rid of the Marleau, Nylader and Zaitsev contracts before July 1st. We are about to find out how smart/dumb our GM is and how screwed this team will be cap wise.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
80,615
57,639
He has, none says he hasnt but comparing the direction of the 2 franchises I'd starting with the difference in nets but who cares, this isnt the topic here

Like I said, you're paying McDavid for individual success, but a big part of Matthews' paycheque has to do with the success the Leafs have been able to have with him as the cornerstone piece.
 

Dragao6

Registered User
Dec 25, 2013
3,216
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Ontario, Canada
Like I said, you're paying McDavid for individual success, but a big part of Matthews' paycheque has to do with the success the Leafs have been able to have with him as the cornerstone piece.
If that's what ur talking about then yes anderson has as much to do with leafs success or more then 34 so let's not give 34 all the credit cause I can remember very clearly multiple games leafs were aweful but we had freddy.
Edmonton has 2 superstars that have always produced big time but the rest of the roster is a mess.
Matthew's has a good group around d him as there are stretches hes also invisible

Back to topic...marners ask is also for his projected individual success so..
 
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