Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion XX - The Dog Days of August V3

[Nineteen67]

I'd love to see them both still in the Blue and White, but you do you.

Well I’m looking at buying a place in AZ, so yeah, I’ll do that.

 

[zeke]

I feel like I've been told already but I forget so i'll ask again. Don't contracts have higher pay if it's a shorter term deal instead of it being a 8 year deal where the AAV would be lower?

For young players, AAV goes up the longer the contract is.

For older players, AAV goes down the longer the contract is.

 

[Sypher04]

Kucherov 128 points & league MVP .. 8 years @ $9.5 mil (UFA years)
vs
Marner 94 points 3 years @ $9.5 mil (RFA years)

I'm with you as I don't see how those numbers would make any sense for a Marner contract.

I'm not sure using Kucherov really makes sense. It's becoming abundantly clear he took well below what he could have held out for.
I mean, Panarin is making 11.64m per and it's pretty widely reported Columbus offered him more.

 

[LaPlante94]

For young players, AAV goes up the longer the contract is.

For older players, AAV goes down the longer the contract is.

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Marner is worth 9.5-10 max. Kuch JUST signed a 9.5M contract the cap went up what? 1.5M this year? how much inflation is there really Marner is being completely greedy im getting very frustrated with the length this is taking.
I dont think we have all the facts I just feel if it was for a fair price it would be done by now.

 

[ACC1224]

I mean if this rumour was actually true, what it would mean is that this current standoff is now actually between Shanny and Marner, and Dubas is just waiting for them to agree.

Which is silly.

Speculation we may be hearing is the stand off is between Dubas and Shanahan with Marner stuck in no mans land patiently waiting.
Fletcher may or not have to resume his interim GM duties, it's believed sources may say.

 

[ACC1224]

I'll defend Dubas because I think he's a good GM but this is one signing he can't overpay for. Matthews got more than he should but I can defend over paying for a legit elite #1 C over a winger anyday. Let him rot and set a damn number for a contract and say it's not going any higher than this so take it or we can work out a trade and then wait for the right trade to come around. Agent has no leverage or power and for some reason he believes we care if he goes to the Swiss league to make the amount a 4th liner would in the NHL.

Just funny how players won't attend camp because of risk of injury but will go play overseas for not much money and risk injury.

Where are you getting this from?

 

[Sypher04]

Speculation we may be hearing is the stand off is between Dubas and Shanahan with Marner stuck in no mans land patiently waiting.
Fletcher may or not have to resume his interim GM duties, it's believed sources may say.

lol

 

[Mess]

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying.

Other than buying UFA years is more costly than buying RFA years.

UFA years are based on open market supply and demand and RFA are cost controllable years where his team controls and dictates price.

RFA years $$/AAV << UFA years $$/AAV

 

[member 157595]

someone is bitter their career ended in Toronto? lol

Dude I'd trust him. Bolland has a PhD in Overpayment Studies from Dave Nonis Community College.

 

[Fogelhund]

Kucherov 128 points & league MVP .. 8 years @ $9.5 mil (UFA years)
vs
Marner 94 points 3 years @ $9.5 mil (RFA years)

I'm with you as I don't see how those numbers would make any sense for a Marner contract.

A three year deal, should be a number starting with an EIGHT.... no more.

 

[Nineteen67]

Is it possible they are willing to pay x% of the cap today over 3 yrs and then equal (plus a little more) that on the 8 yr deal ( if allowed) in 3 yrs.

12.5% on 3
13 % on 8

I know you can’t negotiate into the next contract.....yada yada

 

[Fogelhund]

Other than buying UFA years is more costly than buying RFA years.

UFA years are based on open market supply and demand and RFA are cost controllable years where his team controls and dictates price.

RFA years $$/AAV << UFA years $$/AAV

That used to be true, but it appears as though it no longer is.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Where are you getting this from?

Salary Expectations – 2112HockeyAgency.com

According to this, NLA players make between 80k-450k Swiss. Swiss is almost identical to USD so the most he'd make would be 450k based on that.

Now I am sure he could be offered more than 450k unless they are not allowed to, but he wouldn't even be making NHL salary if he went over there.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Is it possible they are willing to pay x% of the cap today over 3 yrs and then equal (plus a little more) that on the 8 yr deal ( if allowed) in 3 yrs.

12.5% on 3
13 % on 8

I know you can’t negotiate into the next contract.....yada yada

You can set the qualifying offer though can't you ?

 

[Sypher04]

Other than buying UFA years is more costly than buying RFA years.

UFA years are based on open market supply and demand and RFA are cost controllable years where his team controls and dictates price.

RFA years $$/AAV << UFA years $$/AAV

I think we're likely watching this mindset changing, at least in regards to the higher end RFAs

 

[zeke]

I think UFA years are still more expensive than RFA years, actually.

but that actually doesn't have anything to do with the question that was being asked.

 

[ULF_55]

I'm not sure using Kucherov really makes sense. It's becoming abundantly clear he took well below what he could have held out for.
I mean, Panarin is making 11.64m per and it's pretty widely reported Columbus offered him more.

Only cost money for Panarin, so he could shop himself everywhere without encumbrance.

RFA's cost money and picks, not the same.

 

[ACC1224]

Salary Expectations – 2112HockeyAgency.com

According to this, NLA players make between 80k-450k Swiss. Swiss is almost identical to USD so the most he'd make would be 450k based on that.

Now I am sure he could be offered more than 450k unless they are not allowed to, but he wouldn't even be making NHL salary if he went over there.

I meant where did the poster get the idea that he would actually sign to go play over there and not just train.

 

[ULF_55]

There's weeks before training camp even opens.

I suspect something will get done, and these guys are all overpaid anyway.

Entertainment business is quite the triangle, but I'm sure extra's would love to make minimum NHL money.

 

[Nineteen67]

You can set the qualifying offer though can't you ?

Yes

 

[Mess]

A three year deal, should be a number starting with an EIGHT.... no more.

Agreed and even +$8 for 3 year bridge deal is unprecedented and has no NHL comparables.

Aho accepted an overpriced offersheet for 5 years @ $8.45 mil so Marner getting that similar for a 3 year bridge would be an overpayment based on comparables and 2 years too short.

We might be seeing players like Brayden Point landing a salary/AAV in the $8 range for 6 years.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I'd love to see them both still in the Blue and White, but you do you.

Me too. I couldn't care less about Arizona and Vegas. They both could lose their teams tomorrow, and I wouldn't even bat an eyelash.

 

[LaPlante94]

I meant where did the poster get the idea that he would actually sign to go play over there and not just train.

Dreger reported it and Zurich confirmed it. Yeah it was just to train but what's the point of going over there just to train with a team?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Compare Marner's game to any first line players in the game and see how that washes out.

All he does is kill penalties, runs the powerplay from the right side, back checks full out, blocks shots, elite skater, elite hockey IQ, elite skills. Leads the team in scoring 2 years running. Quality player, Quality person, highly competitive, elite Work ethic, Top 5 right winger in scoring. Durable for his size. Possession beast, positive analytics beast. Captain Material, complete player

He's put up 94 points last year and is not yet fully developed physically. Every year he has improved. One of the great players to watch and very dynamic. Very unpredictable and almost impossible to defend.

I'll just say this again! Thanks Hunter!