Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion XX - The Dog Days of August V3

[zeke]

With nylander and Matthews fiasco; Shanny taking active role in negotiations

Dubas and Ferris had a deal done and Shanny scrapped the deal

s

Never happened.

 

[zeke]

False. Marner played against oppositions’ top lines with Kadri a year prior

False. Matthews faced tougher qoc than kadri that year and Marner had the softest competition in the top 6.

 

[ULF_55]

Never happened.

Probably as likely as marner wants to be paid more than McDavid.

Or, Dubas offered marner 11 for 5 years and paul said he's better than Matthews so has to be paid more.

I'm curious what has been offered by other teams ... not to marner, but to Dubas in a trade.

Say 'Canes offered Terravainen and Pesce, would Dubas even consider that?

 

[member 157595]

Probably as likely as marner wants to be paid more than McDavid.

Or, Dubas offered marner 11 for 5 years and paul said he's better than Matthews so has to be paid more.

I'm curious what has been offered by other teams ... not to marner, but to Dubas in a trade.

Say 'Canes offered Terravainen and Pesce, would Dubas even consider that?

He'd better. Leafs would lose up front but TT is no slouch and they have enough depth at F to make up for it. Meanwhile, take a look at this D: (that's what she said)

Rielly-FishMan
Muzzin-Barrie
Dermott-Ceci

That D is extremely balanced and no one is playing out of position or above their appropriate responsibilities. It's beautiful. Both TT and Pesce are signed long-term at very reasonable deals too. It's unfortunate that Carolina would never consider it.

 

[BlueForever75]

Probably as likely as marner wants to be paid more than McDavid.

Or, Dubas offered marner 11 for 5 years and paul said he's better than Matthews so has to be paid more.

I'm curious what has been offered by other teams ... not to marner, but to Dubas in a trade.

Say 'Canes offered Terravainen and Pesce, would Dubas even consider that?

I think both the Canes and Leafs add in a deal to what you proposed, but I think Dubas should consider it as a starting point. Maybe some picks need to be offered both ways.

If it were I, I would take that deal in a heartbeat, a young replacement winger that will excel with Tavares, and a legit RHD that you place with Reilly long term.

Hyman-Tavares-Terravainen

Reilly-Pesce
Muzzin-Barrie
Dermott-Ceci

Looks good to me.

 

[ACC1224]

Never happened.

Probably not.

There is so much indirect information('I believe' 'I''m hearing') out there.
I find it fascinating what people choose to believe or dismiss.
They'll believe it if it confirms some 'belief' they have and dismiss it if it goes against that.

 

[18leafsfan18]

He'd better. Leafs would lose up front but TT is no slouch and they have enough depth at F to make up for it. Meanwhile, take a look at this D: (that's what she said)

Rielly-FishMan
Muzzin-Barrie
Dermott-Ceci

That D is extremely balanced and no one is playing out of position or above their appropriate responsibilities. It's beautiful. Both TT and Pesce are signed long-term at very reasonable deals too. It's unfortunate that Carolina would never consider it.

Snuck in the Michael Scott.

 

[Sypher04]

Probably not.

There is so much indirect information('I believe' 'I''m hearing') out there.
I find it fascinating what people choose to believe or dismiss.
They'll believe it if it confirms some 'belief' they have and dismiss it if it goes against that.

Agreed. For this reason, when I'm referencing a report out there in the wild, I like to try and preface it by saying "if the report/rumour that xxxxxxxx is true" and then I say whatever I'm going to say

 

[Nineteen67]

It seem many more blindly love him for that reason.
Thankfully there is a large group of us in the middle that judge players/management on what they bring and nothing more.

And if you find players/management (anyone for that matter ) don’t meet your expectations, your a ‘ist’ of some sort.

 

[Bomber0104]

And if you find players/management (anyone for that matter ) don’t meet your expectations, your a ‘ist’ of some sort.

The worst kind of posters are the ones that feel self-important enough to stand up on a soapbox and tell other people the "correct" way to be a fan of the team.

 

[yubbers]

You have no access to reality?

Reality is exactly why I think he's a joke and will waste our Matthews years. I take no joy in saying this.

 

[Mess]

Sportsnet's Chris Johnston provided us with this last week. Chris Johnston provides update on Marner contract negotiations

Chris Johnston provides update on Marner contract negotiations

August 16, 2019

"As it has been speculated for a while now, Marner will most likely end up with a contract that doesn’t represent any comparable players around the league for a winger coming out of their entry-level contract.

Depending on what the term is, the deal will range from either a $8-million or up to a $11-million cap hit — the former being a term around three years, and the latter a six or seven-year deal.

Johnston continues to say that he believes that the Leafs have recently moved closer to what Marner and his agent, Darren Ferris, has been requesting. That could either mean an eventual overpayment and yet another contract negotiation that doesn’t give any benefit for the team’s future cap structure.

No matter what happens, Marner remaining a Leaf signals the philosophy that GM Kyle Dubas and the rest of the Leafs’ management wants to spread throughout their team. To give elite forwards the contracts that they deserve and try to find discounts or deals for defencemen — all-in on offence."

 

[TheOneArmedMan]

Sportsnet's Chris Johnston provided us with this last week. Chris Johnston provides update on Marner contract negotiations

Chris Johnston provides update on Marner contract negotiations

August 16, 2019

"As it has been speculated for a while now, Marner will most likely end up with a contract that doesn’t represent any comparable players around the league for a winger coming out of their entry-level contract.

Depending on what the term is, the deal will range from either a $8-million or up to a $11-million cap hit — the former being a term around three years, and the latter a six or seven-year deal.

Johnston continues to say that he believes that the Leafs have recently moved closer to what Marner and his agent, Darren Ferris, has been requesting. That could either mean an eventual overpayment and yet another contract negotiation that doesn’t give any benefit for the team’s future cap structure.

No matter what happens, Marner remaining a Leaf signals the philosophy that GM Kyle Dubas and the rest of the Leafs’ management wants to spread throughout their team. To give elite forwards the contracts that they deserve and try to find discounts or deals for defencemen — all-in on offence."

Well at least we know now there is progress. I know they are still trying to squeeze every dollar from leafs management

 

[Matthews34]

Sportsnet's Chris Johnston provided us with this last week. Chris Johnston provides update on Marner contract negotiations

Chris Johnston provides update on Marner contract negotiations

August 16, 2019

"As it has been speculated for a while now, Marner will most likely end up with a contract that doesn’t represent any comparable players around the league for a winger coming out of their entry-level contract.

Depending on what the term is, the deal will range from either a $8-million or up to a $11-million cap hit — the former being a term around three years, and the latter a six or seven-year deal.

Johnston continues to say that he believes that the Leafs have recently moved closer to what Marner and his agent, Darren Ferris, has been requesting. That could either mean an eventual overpayment and yet another contract negotiation that doesn’t give any benefit for the team’s future cap structure.

No matter what happens, Marner remaining a Leaf signals the philosophy that GM Kyle Dubas and the rest of the Leafs’ management wants to spread throughout their team. To give elite forwards the contracts that they deserve and try to find discounts or deals for defencemen — all-in on offence."

In the first sentence of that quote it states "it has been speculated" so there's no more truth to Johnston's reporting than any other NHL reporter on Marner so how can you come to any conclusion until the contract is signed? The answer is you can't.

 

[ACC1224]

Sportsnet's Chris Johnston provided us with this last week. Chris Johnston provides update on Marner contract negotiations

Chris Johnston provides update on Marner contract negotiations

August 16, 2019

"As it has been speculated for a while now, Marner will most likely end up with a contract that doesn’t represent any comparable players around the league for a winger coming out of their entry-level contract.

Depending on what the term is, the deal will range from either a $8-million or up to a $11-million cap hit — the former being a term around three years, and the latter a six or seven-year deal.

Johnston continues to say that he believes that the Leafs have recently moved closer to what Marner and his agent, Darren Ferris, has been requesting. That could either mean an eventual overpayment and yet another contract negotiation that doesn’t give any benefit for the team’s future cap structure.

No matter what happens, Marner remaining a Leaf signals the philosophy that GM Kyle Dubas and the rest of the Leafs’ management wants to spread throughout their team. To give elite forwards the contracts that they deserve and try to find discounts or deals for defencemen — all-in on offence."

Probably not.

There is so much indirect information('I believe' 'I''m hearing') out there.
I find it fascinating what people choose to believe or dismiss.
They'll believe it if it confirms some 'belief' they have and dismiss it if it goes against that.

Forgot our old favourites, 'it has been speculated' and 'most likely'

 

[81Leafs50]

Dave Bolland: Leafs' Mitch Marner should 'wait out to get what he wants' - Sportsnet.ca

someone is bitter their career ended in Toronto? lol

 

[81Leafs50]

I think it'll be 10.5 x 5.

Savage overpayment to say the least.

GROSS over payment.

My money is on 9.5M for 3 years.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

I’d love to see Arizona and Vegas both good and develop a rivalry. Mitch in AZ and AM in Vegas would be fun.

I'd love to see them both still in the Blue and White, but you do you.

 

[Clark4Ever]

GROSS over payment.

My money is on 9.5M for 3 years.

That is also a gross overpayment on only a 3 year term. It would be worse than the Matthews contract in my opinion.

 

[jaric1862]

If the Leafs ran a 20-man roster, and Marner signed before the regular season started, the absolute most the Leafs could offer without moving somebody is about 11.5m, though the realities of making that work are probably a bit unrealistic.

They wouldn’t be able to do that since they would need cap space to call someone up if there’s an injury. I think the absolute most would be having just enough for one call up at all times. They would also likely call up a player who’s waiver exempt. So probs 11.5ish minus 0.9ish

 

[LaPlante94]

I'll defend Dubas because I think he's a good GM but this is one signing he can't overpay for. Matthews got more than he should but I can defend over paying for a legit elite #1 C over a winger anyday. Let him rot and set a damn number for a contract and say it's not going any higher than this so take it or we can work out a trade and then wait for the right trade to come around. Agent has no leverage or power and for some reason he believes we care if he goes to the Swiss league to make the amount a 4th liner would in the NHL.

Just funny how players won't attend camp because of risk of injury but will go play overseas for not much money and risk injury.

 

[LaPlante94]

That is also a gross overpayment on only a 3 year term. It would be worse than the Matthews contract in my opinion.

I feel like I've been told already but I forget so i'll ask again. Don't contracts have higher pay if it's a shorter term deal instead of it being a 8 year deal where the AAV would be lower?

 

[Mess]

That is also a gross overpayment on only a 3 year term. It would be worse than the Matthews contract in my opinion.

Kucherov 128 points & league MVP .. 8 years @ $9.5 mil (UFA years)
vs
Marner 94 points 3 years @ $9.5 mil (RFA years)

I'm with you as I don't see how those numbers would make any sense for a Marner contract.

 

[zeke]

Probably not.

There is so much indirect information('I believe' 'I''m hearing') out there.
I find it fascinating what people choose to believe or dismiss.
They'll believe it if it confirms some 'belief' they have and dismiss it if it goes against that.

I mean if this rumour was actually true, what it would mean is that this current standoff is now actually between Shanny and Marner, and Dubas is just waiting for them to agree.

Which is silly.

 

[Bomber0104]

I'll defend Dubas because I think he's a good GM but this is one signing he can't overpay for. Matthews got more than he should but I can defend over paying for a legit elite #1 C over a winger anyday. Let him rot and set a damn number for a contract and say it's not going any higher than this so take it or we can work out a trade and then wait for the right trade to come around. Agent has no leverage or power and for some reason he believes we care if he goes to the Swiss league to make the amount a 4th liner would in the NHL.

Just funny how players won't attend camp because of risk of injury but will go play overseas for not much money and risk injury.

Like Nylander, I'd assume that Marner wouldn't see game-action and would only be going over to Zurich for training sessions.