Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVII (continued)

[Gabriel426]

What's the betting line on Marner being signed before the season starts? I'm leaning he won't be signed. Lots of players won't be signed.

If that’s the case I think trades will be coming.
Imagine Point and Tkschuk swap colours.
Boeser and Laine trade places in Canada.
Rantanen and Marner switch teams.

 

[hfman]

Case and point.

Both Sundin and Marner used/are using the levers they had/have for their own personal advantage to the possible detriment of the team.

...right.

I had to read that 4 or 5 times to decipher what exactly you were trying to say there

your whole backslash thing is throwing me off (or is it a forward slash)


...do you talk like that at parties? You must be a blast at social gatherings (assuming you've ever been to one?)

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Interesting to compare this saga to the past.

Marner is greedy.

Yet Mats Sundin, refuses to waive his NTC saying he doesn’t believe in joining a team through the season.

Then, after “retiring,” accepts a deal to play in Vancouver and joins them well into the season.

Leafs get absolutely nothing as a result of Mats’ choices.

Both players used their contract status to influence their own destiny. Maybe even battle with management.

Sundin is a fan fav. Marner is a greedy jerk.

Makes .... uh..... sense?

I've vocally criticized the Sundin situation on this forum. I lost a lot of respect for him when that happened and I don't understand what he was thinking.

I guess the captain/face of the franchise for a decade gave him a little more leeway with fans than a 22 year old who had one good season.

I'm just trying to imagine getting offered a contract that will make you among the richest 0.00001% of society... and then turning it down to fight for every single solitary penny I could milk. Money that would be coming from my teammates pockets.

I just don't understand it. I don't understand why it's defended so much here as well. It's baffling.

I'm not saying these guys should even take discounts. But turning down fair market value that will put you among the 0.000001% richest of society?

I don't care how it's rationalized here. It's GREED. It's gross. It's disgusting to watch.

 

[Cor]

Interesting to compare this saga to the past.

Marner is greedy.

Yet Mats Sundin, refuses to waive his NTC saying he doesn’t believe in joining a team through the season.

Then, after “retiring,” accepts a deal to play in Vancouver and joins them well into the season.

Leafs get absolutely nothing as a result of Mats’ choices.

Both players used their contract status to influence their own destiny. Maybe even battle with management.

Sundin is a fan fav. Marner is a greedy jerk.

Makes .... uh..... sense?

This is some revisionist history.

Mats was criticized strongly for that, as were Kaberle, McCabe, Tucker, and Kubina all of who had trade protections and rejected a trade of some sort. They were called the Muskoka Five.

In fact, even before that incident, there was a portion of the fanbase and media who, for whatever reason, felt Mats was the issue with the team, and never gave him the respect he deserved.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Since some people still give a lot of if not most of Tavares' goals credit to Marner, I decided to do a quick breakdown of JTs goals last year:

1. Goal #1: Tavares dekes out Habs player while cutting to the middle, snipes it on Price in the slot. - No Marner
2. Tavares follows the rebound off Ward from a point shot, and puts it in the net. - No Marner
3. Redirects a pass in the air from Marner into the net. - Good pass from Marner, mostly JT as it was a redirect in midair.
4. Knocks put out of air from Marner, and snipes one for the hattrick. - Again Marner kept the puck in, but mostly JT with the crazy hand eye and then snipe
5. Marner fakes the shot and passes to JT in the crease. - This was mostly Marner, tap-in from JT
6. Marner passes to JT, who fakes the goalie out and makes a wrap around for the goal. - Was mostly JT here, and Hyman on the forecheck.
7. Marner makes a dirty move, backhands it off the goalie, and JT cleans up. - Credit to Marner, this was mostly him.
8. Marner shoots the puck from far out, and JT deflects it from the low-slot. - Some credit to Marner, but this was mostly JT.
9. Hainsey makes a nice pass to JT for basically an open net on the PP. - No Marner
10. Marner makes a nice pass across the ice to JT for basically an open net/not a tap-in though. - Mostly Marner here.
11. Rielly with the point-shot and a nice deflection from JT in the circle. - No Marner
12. Marner passes it to JT at the blue-line, JT goes around the net, and goes off the dman and in. - No Marner
13. Marner with a nice break who makes a backhand shot, goalie saves it, Marner passes it back, and JT put it in the net after. - Mostly Marner, not a tap-in
14. JT breaks up a pass at opposing blueline, rushes in on a break and snipes. - No Marner
15. Marner dangles his way to the slot but loses the puck, JT comes in and snipes; goalie was in position. - 50/50 credit
16. Matthews with the pass to an open JT at the side of the net. - Marner made the pass to Matthews, but wasn't the pass to JT here
17. Hyman to Marner to an open JT for the tap-in. - Marner deserves the most praise here, but credit to JT for beating his man to put him in good position.
18. Rielly to JT at the top circle, who snipes on the goalie. - No Marner
19. Marner goes around the net and passes it to JT who puts it past the goalie. - Mostly Marner but not a tap-in
20. Gardiner shoots from the point, and JT with the redirect on his backhand. - No Marner
21. 3 on 1. Matthews to Kadri to JT and puts it in. - No Marner
22. JT cleans up the rebound from a Matthews shot. - Marner made the pass to Matthews but it was a basic PP pass, no credit.
23. Nice play by Marner who fakes going around the net and finds JT on the short side. - Credit to Marner but not a tap-in
24. Gardiner point shot tipped in by JT. - No Marner
25. Marner slap pass to Kadri and pucks goes off JT and in. - I guess credit to Marner, but it was a pretty broken play.
26. Jt breaks up the rush, passes to Marner who passes it back at the top circle who snipes it. - This is mostly JT
27. Rielly point shot tipped in by JT. - No Marner
28. Gardiner shoots it and tipped into the goalie by JT, JT grabs the puck and goes around everyone and puts the puck in. - No Marner
29. Marner backhands a pass to Rielly, who fakes the shot and makes the goalie bite and then feeds JT across. - Marner was involved but this was mostly Rielly.
30. Off the draw Marner makes a 5 foot pass to JT, who one times it in. - Marner made the pass, but this was mostly JT's shot.
31. JT receives a broken pass, takes the puck into the zone and snipes one past the goalie. - No Marner
32. Marner makes a dirty move and finds an open JT at the side of the net. - This was mostly Marner
33. Marner crosses with JT, who feeds a little pass to JT who backhands it top shelf. - 50/50 credit
34. Rielly shot blocked, JT picks up the puck in the slot and snipes it in. - No Marner
35. Muzzin point shot redirected in by JT at the net. - No Marner
36. 5 on 3, Marner makes the open pass to JT in the slot who snipes it in. - Marner made the pass but JT was wide open, and the shot was the best part.
37. Point shot tipped by Marner high. Bounces around, goalie thinks he has it, but JT cleans up. - Broken play, credit to JT but neither did much
38. Hyman make the pass to JT at the blue line, who beats the D and then dekes the goalie before putting it in. - No Marner
39. Marner keeps the puck in and then passes to JT who goes down low, and beats the goalie shortside. - Marner made a nice play to keep it in, but I'd give credit to JT here or 50/50
40. Matthews tried finding JT in the slot, pucks makes it way to him and JT puts it in. - No Marner
41. Nylander goes around the world before shooting it off the crossbar, puck bounces off Eichel before JT taps it in. - No Marner, but a tap-in
42. Marner point shot stopped before JT shoots it between the legs. - 50/50 credit, pretty broken play
43. Hyman makes a nice move before making a backhand pass to JT. - No Marner
44. Rielly shoots the puck off the goalie which creates a rebound to JT who puts it into the net. - No Marner
45. Marner shoots the puck off the goalie after a broken play, JT in the right spot for the open net. - Mostly Marner, but not a tap-in
46. Marner crosses with JT while drop passing to him, JT absolute snipes it. - I'd give more credit to JT because of the shot, but it could go 50/50
47. Rielly point shot that goes to JT, who shoots but gets stopped, gets his own rebound and puts it in. - No Marner

- So there we go.

• So 21 goals, Marner wasn't a factor at all.
• 11 goals I'd give credit to mostly Marner; only about 4-5 goals from Marner to JT I'd say were tap-ins
• 15 goals I'd put into the the Marner was involved but it was mostly JT or it was 50/50 credit.

 

[horner]

Since some people still give a lot of if not most of Tavares' goals credit to Marner, I decided to do a quick breakdown of JTs goals last year:

1. Goal #1: Tavares dekes out Habs player while cutting to the middle, snipes it on Price in the slot. - No Marner
2. Tavares follows the rebound off Ward from a point shot, and puts it in the net. - No Marner
3. Redirects a pass in the air from Marner into the net. - Good pass from Marner, mostly JT as it was a redirect in midair.
4. Knocks put out of air from Marner, and snipes one for the hattrick. - Again Marner kept the puck in, but mostly JT with the crazy hand eye and then snipe
5. Marner fakes the shot and passes to JT in the crease. - This was mostly Marner, tap-in from JT
6. Marner passes to JT, who fakes the goalie out and makes a wrap around for the goal. - Was mostly JT here, and Hyman on the forecheck.
7. Marner makes a dirty move, backhands it off the goalie, and JT cleans up. - Credit to Marner, this was mostly him.
8. Marner shoots the puck from far out, and JT deflects it from the low-slot. - Some credit to Marner, but this was mostly JT.
9. Hainsey makes a nice pass to JT for basically an open net on the PP. - No Marner
10. Marner makes a nice pass across the ice to JT for basically an open net/not a tap-in though. - Mostly Marner here.
11. Rielly with the point-shot and a nice deflection from JT in the circle. - No Marner
12. Marner passes it to JT at the blue-line, JT goes around the net, and goes off the dman and in. - No Marner
13. Marner with a nice break who makes a backhand shot, goalie saves it, Marner passes it back, and JT put it in the net after. - Mostly Marner, not a tap-in
14. JT breaks up a pass at opposing blueline, rushes in on a break and snipes. - No Marner
15. Marner dangles his way to the slot but loses the puck, JT comes in and snipes; goalie was in position. - 50/50 credit
16. Matthews with the pass to an open JT at the side of the net. - Marner made the pass to Matthews, but wasn't the pass to JT here
17. Hyman to Marner to an open JT for the tap-in. - Marner deserves the most praise here, but credit to JT for beating his man to put him in good position.
18. Rielly to JT at the top circle, who snipes on the goalie. - No Marner
19. Marner goes around the net and passes it to JT who puts it past the goalie. - Mostly Marner but not a tap-in
20. Gardiner shoots from the point, and JT with the redirect on his backhand. - No Marner
21. 3 on 1. Matthews to Kadri to JT and puts it in. - No Marner
22. JT cleans up the rebound from a Matthews shot. - Marner made the pass to Matthews but it was a basic PP pass, no credit.
23. Nice play by Marner who fakes going around the net and finds JT on the short side. - Credit to Marner but not a tap-in
24. Gardiner point shot tipped in by JT. - No Marner
25. Marner slap pass to Kadri and pucks goes off JT and in. - I guess credit to Marner, but it was a pretty broken play.
26. Jt breaks up the rush, passes to Marner who passes it back at the top circle who snipes it. - This is mostly JT
27. Rielly point shot tipped in by JT. - No Marner
28. Gardiner shoots it and tipped into the goalie by JT, JT grabs the puck and goes around everyone and puts the puck in. - No Marner
29. Marner backhands a pass to Rielly, who fakes the shot and makes the goalie bite and then feeds JT across. - Marner was involved but this was mostly Rielly.
30. Off the draw Marner makes a 5 foot pass to JT, who one times it in. - Marner made the pass, but this was mostly JT's shot.
31. JT receives a broken pass, takes the puck into the zone and snipes one past the goalie. - No Marner
32. Marner makes a dirty move and finds an open JT at the side of the net. - This was mostly Marner
33. Marner crosses with JT, who feeds a little pass to JT who backhands it top shelf. - 50/50 credit
34. Rielly shot blocked, JT picks up the puck in the slot and snipes it in. - No Marner
35. Muzzin point shot redirected in by JT at the net. - No Marner
36. 5 on 3, Marner makes the open pass to JT in the slot who snipes it in. - Marner made the pass but JT was wide open, and the shot was the best part.
37. Point shot tipped by Marner high. Bounces around, goalie thinks he has it, but JT cleans up. - Broken play, credit to JT but neither did much
38. Hyman make the pass to JT at the blue line, who beats the D and then dekes the goalie before putting it in. - No Marner
39. Marner keeps the puck in and then passes to JT who goes down low, and beats the goalie shortside. - Marner made a nice play to keep it in, but I'd give credit to JT here or 50/50
40. Matthews tried finding JT in the slot, pucks makes it way to him and JT puts it in. - No Marner
41. Nylander goes around the world before shooting it off the crossbar, puck bounces off Eichel before JT taps it in. - No Marner, but a tap-in
42. Marner point shot stopped before JT shoots it between the legs. - 50/50 credit, pretty broken play
43. Hyman makes a nice move before making a backhand pass to JT. - No Marner
44. Rielly shoots the puck off the goalie which creates a rebound to JT who puts it into the net. - No Marner
45. Marner shoots the puck off the goalie after a broken play, JT in the right spot for the open net. - Mostly Marner, but not a tap-in
46. Marner crosses with JT while drop passing to him, JT absolute snipes it. - I'd give more credit to JT because of the shot, but it could go 50/50
47. Rielly point shot that goes to JT, who shoots but gets stopped, gets his own rebound and puts it in. - No Marner

- So there we go.

• So 21 goals, Marner wasn't a factor at all.
• 11 goals I'd give credit to mostly Marner; only about 4-5 goals from Marner to JT I'd say were tap-ins
• 15 goals I'd put into the the Marner was involved but it was mostly JT or it was 50/50 credit.

Wow that's a lot of work buddy.
We all know Taveras is a great player , that is why he signed for what he did.
Most people know that Taveras and Marners were great together and made each other better.
Taveras is an elite goal scorer
Marner is an elite passer
I believe a marner video was used in the presentation to entice Taveras to sign here.

6 goal marner made a great pass to JT through the crease

8 goal even the commentator mentioned what a beautiful play marner made prior to the goal.

You see we can all pick of stuff .

He'll hyman was a big part of that line doing the dirty work ( which he usually dosent get credit for )

 

[Scott Stevens]

DO THE RIGHT THING MITCH!!!!!

 

[ottomaddox]

This is some revisionist history.

Mats was criticized strongly for that, as were Kaberle, McCabe, Tucker, and Kubina all of who had trade protections and rejected a trade of some sort. They were called the Muskoka Five.

In fact, even before that incident, there was a portion of the fanbase and media who, for whatever reason, felt Mats was the issue with the team, and never gave him the respect he deserved.

I believe they were called the Muskoka 5 because of losing (cottage + golfing in May). I don't think it had to do with discounts or waiving trade clauses.

 

[Pookie]

This is some revisionist history.

Mats was criticized strongly for that, as were Kaberle, McCabe, Tucker, and Kubina all of who had trade protections and rejected a trade of some sort. They were called the Muskoka Five.

In fact, even before that incident, there was a portion of the fanbase and media who, for whatever reason, felt Mats was the issue with the team, and never gave him the respect he deserved.

So he was criticized by some fans and media?

And yet now he has a statue ... despite lying to the fan base and screwing the team over for personal reasons.

The only thing Marner has done is start with a high opening position in a contract negotiation. Just like every other player before him.

And look at the crap his character has been painted with.

Just saying ... one player did actually hurt the team and lie. The other is negotiating.

If the “don’t want to be a rental guy has a statue,” let’s not jump on the negotiating guy this early

 

[The Apologist]

I believe they were called the Muskoka 5 because of losing (cottage + golfing in May). I don't think it had to do with discounts or waiving trade clauses.

You can believe so but Im fairly confident youd be wrong. The Muskoka 5 came directly from their unwillingness to leave the team and their comfortable cottage country lifestyles apparently. It was a stupid term then and sounds even more ridiculous ridiculous now.

And holy revisionist history on Sundin batman! Not you but the general discussion.

 

[PromisedLand]

Personally I do not care too much about ES vs PP points. When they hand out the Rocket Richard and Art Ross, there is no mention of ES or PP goals and assists.

no but they do mention Corsi and xGF%

 

[Pookie]

If I remember rightly people weren't exactly thrilled with Sundin at the time that was going down either, and that's for a guy that captained the team for years and held practically every major Leaf record

I'm sure if Marner ends up staying and has the same career Sundin had for the Leafs he's going to get himself a statue as well when all is said and done

Fans are down on a guy during a tough contract dispute, more shocking revelations at 11 so stay tuned

Jes Pookie your losing your touch, the fire has really gone out since Kadri left hasn't it

See here’s the problem.

You want me to beat up on Marner for simply being in the process of a negotiation in the offseason.

You even call it a contract “dispute.”

Where’s the dispute?

The fact he hasn’t signed what the team offered so far? Keeping company with the +90 NHLers that are still unsigned?

That’s not a dispute good sir.

 

[Notsince67]

Since some people still give a lot of if not most of Tavares' goals credit to Marner, I decided to do a quick breakdown of JTs goals last year:

1. Goal #1: Tavares dekes out Habs player while cutting to the middle, snipes it on Price in the slot. - No Marner
2. Tavares follows the rebound off Ward from a point shot, and puts it in the net. - No Marner
3. Redirects a pass in the air from Marner into the net. - Good pass from Marner, mostly JT as it was a redirect in midair.
4. Knocks put out of air from Marner, and snipes one for the hattrick. - Again Marner kept the puck in, but mostly JT with the crazy hand eye and then snipe
5. Marner fakes the shot and passes to JT in the crease. - This was mostly Marner, tap-in from JT
6. Marner passes to JT, who fakes the goalie out and makes a wrap around for the goal. - Was mostly JT here, and Hyman on the forecheck.
7. Marner makes a dirty move, backhands it off the goalie, and JT cleans up. - Credit to Marner, this was mostly him.
8. Marner shoots the puck from far out, and JT deflects it from the low-slot. - Some credit to Marner, but this was mostly JT.
9. Hainsey makes a nice pass to JT for basically an open net on the PP. - No Marner
10. Marner makes a nice pass across the ice to JT for basically an open net/not a tap-in though. - Mostly Marner here.
11. Rielly with the point-shot and a nice deflection from JT in the circle. - No Marner
12. Marner passes it to JT at the blue-line, JT goes around the net, and goes off the dman and in. - No Marner
13. Marner with a nice break who makes a backhand shot, goalie saves it, Marner passes it back, and JT put it in the net after. - Mostly Marner, not a tap-in
14. JT breaks up a pass at opposing blueline, rushes in on a break and snipes. - No Marner
15. Marner dangles his way to the slot but loses the puck, JT comes in and snipes; goalie was in position. - 50/50 credit
16. Matthews with the pass to an open JT at the side of the net. - Marner made the pass to Matthews, but wasn't the pass to JT here
17. Hyman to Marner to an open JT for the tap-in. - Marner deserves the most praise here, but credit to JT for beating his man to put him in good position.
18. Rielly to JT at the top circle, who snipes on the goalie. - No Marner
19. Marner goes around the net and passes it to JT who puts it past the goalie. - Mostly Marner but not a tap-in
20. Gardiner shoots from the point, and JT with the redirect on his backhand. - No Marner
21. 3 on 1. Matthews to Kadri to JT and puts it in. - No Marner
22. JT cleans up the rebound from a Matthews shot. - Marner made the pass to Matthews but it was a basic PP pass, no credit.
23. Nice play by Marner who fakes going around the net and finds JT on the short side. - Credit to Marner but not a tap-in
24. Gardiner point shot tipped in by JT. - No Marner
25. Marner slap pass to Kadri and pucks goes off JT and in. - I guess credit to Marner, but it was a pretty broken play.
26. Jt breaks up the rush, passes to Marner who passes it back at the top circle who snipes it. - This is mostly JT
27. Rielly point shot tipped in by JT. - No Marner
28. Gardiner shoots it and tipped into the goalie by JT, JT grabs the puck and goes around everyone and puts the puck in. - No Marner
29. Marner backhands a pass to Rielly, who fakes the shot and makes the goalie bite and then feeds JT across. - Marner was involved but this was mostly Rielly.
30. Off the draw Marner makes a 5 foot pass to JT, who one times it in. - Marner made the pass, but this was mostly JT's shot.
31. JT receives a broken pass, takes the puck into the zone and snipes one past the goalie. - No Marner
32. Marner makes a dirty move and finds an open JT at the side of the net. - This was mostly Marner
33. Marner crosses with JT, who feeds a little pass to JT who backhands it top shelf. - 50/50 credit
34. Rielly shot blocked, JT picks up the puck in the slot and snipes it in. - No Marner
35. Muzzin point shot redirected in by JT at the net. - No Marner
36. 5 on 3, Marner makes the open pass to JT in the slot who snipes it in. - Marner made the pass but JT was wide open, and the shot was the best part.
37. Point shot tipped by Marner high. Bounces around, goalie thinks he has it, but JT cleans up. - Broken play, credit to JT but neither did much
38. Hyman make the pass to JT at the blue line, who beats the D and then dekes the goalie before putting it in. - No Marner
39. Marner keeps the puck in and then passes to JT who goes down low, and beats the goalie shortside. - Marner made a nice play to keep it in, but I'd give credit to JT here or 50/50
40. Matthews tried finding JT in the slot, pucks makes it way to him and JT puts it in. - No Marner
41. Nylander goes around the world before shooting it off the crossbar, puck bounces off Eichel before JT taps it in. - No Marner, but a tap-in
42. Marner point shot stopped before JT shoots it between the legs. - 50/50 credit, pretty broken play
43. Hyman makes a nice move before making a backhand pass to JT. - No Marner
44. Rielly shoots the puck off the goalie which creates a rebound to JT who puts it into the net. - No Marner
45. Marner shoots the puck off the goalie after a broken play, JT in the right spot for the open net. - Mostly Marner, but not a tap-in
46. Marner crosses with JT while drop passing to him, JT absolute snipes it. - I'd give more credit to JT because of the shot, but it could go 50/50
47. Rielly point shot that goes to JT, who shoots but gets stopped, gets his own rebound and puts it in. - No Marner

- So there we go.

• So 21 goals, Marner wasn't a factor at all.
• 11 goals I'd give credit to mostly Marner; only about 4-5 goals from Marner to JT I'd say were tap-ins
• 15 goals I'd put into the the Marner was involved but it was mostly JT or it was 50/50 credit.

23 % of clear credit is actually quite large
There were also a bunch of goals that should have gone in.
It would be interesting to see if Marner got 23% of his goals attributed to Tavares

 

[PromisedLand]

Player agents ruined sports. You wanna know why 1M more a year makes a difference on a 50-60M contract? Bigger commission for Ferris and his ilk. There is no "for the love of the game" for them.

Nope. It's all about the Hamiltons baby.

That is my theory as well. My assumption is that Marner is fine with the deal offered but Ferris' commission is taking the hit; Marner is probably the only elite talent he represents so ferris is trying to milk the situation; it was very evident in how ferris handled the situation especially in the media.


Also quite frankly I think it is a freakin' JOKE how Marner bashing is going on in this thread.

If one did a simple hypothetical example it goes on to show who freakin' stupid all the marner bashing is

Suppose you did your job pretty good wherever it is you are employed and you come out first compared to your colleagues; the firm says good job but we cannot give you the highest salary because we have already given the money to two of your other colleagues; here is a salary less than them take it or leave it.

how would you feel? You bust your behind for the work; work very hard and you have results to back that up only to be told by the MORON (dubas) that we don't have money for you that we gave to the colleague even though you produce the best results.

Do you stay with that firm or tell them to F-OFF and go somewhere where your work is valued and compensated accordingly?

Dubas is the guy to be blamed in all of this alot more than anybody else.

 

[Cor]

So he was criticized by some fans and media?

And yet now he has a statue ... despite lying to the fan base and screwing the team over for personal reasons.

The only thing Marner has done is start with a high opening position in a contract negotiation. Just like every other player before him.

And look at the crap his character has been painted with.

“Screwing over the team” is quiet an overreaction.

Also, Mats Sundin is arguably the greatest player in franchise history. He gave us over a decade of his career. He brought us closer to the Cup, more frequently, than any other captain since Keon. Sundin turned down a trade, and he wanted to sign for another year with us. It was Cliff Fletcher who told him no, and thus he was either forced to retire by Fletcher, or he could make a run at the Cup.


That’s such a complete different scenario.


It’s lunacy to even bring it up TBH

 

[Joey Hoser]

That is my theory as well. My assumption is that Marner is fine with the deal offered but Ferris' commission is taking the hit; Marner is probably the only elite talent he represents so ferris is trying to milk the situation; it was very evident in how ferris handled the situation especially in the media.


Also quite frankly I think it is a freakin' JOKE how Marner bashing is going on in this thread.

If one did a simple hypothetical example it goes on to show who freakin' stupid all the marner bashing is

Suppose you did your job pretty good wherever it is you are employed and you come out first compared to your colleagues; the firm says good job but we cannot give you the highest salary because we have already given the money to two of your other colleagues; here is a salary less than them take it or leave it.

how would you feel? You bust your behind for the work; work very hard and you have results to back that up only to be told by the MORON (dubas) that we don't have money for you that we gave to the colleague even though you produce the best results.

Do you stay with that firm or tell them to F-OFF and go somewhere where your work is valued and compensated accordingly?

Dubas is the guy to be blamed in all of this alot more than anybody else.

So Marner is fine with the offered deal, and it's his greedy and desperate agent who is holding out for a bigger commission. So in conclusion, blame Dubas?

WTF?

 

[Clark4Ever]

Since some people still give a lot of if not most of Tavares' goals credit to Marner, I decided to do a quick breakdown of JTs goals last year:

1. Goal #1: Tavares dekes out Habs player while cutting to the middle, snipes it on Price in the slot. - No Marner
2. Tavares follows the rebound off Ward from a point shot, and puts it in the net. - No Marner
3. Redirects a pass in the air from Marner into the net. - Good pass from Marner, mostly JT as it was a redirect in midair.
4. Knocks put out of air from Marner, and snipes one for the hattrick. - Again Marner kept the puck in, but mostly JT with the crazy hand eye and then snipe
5. Marner fakes the shot and passes to JT in the crease. - This was mostly Marner, tap-in from JT
6. Marner passes to JT, who fakes the goalie out and makes a wrap around for the goal. - Was mostly JT here, and Hyman on the forecheck.
7. Marner makes a dirty move, backhands it off the goalie, and JT cleans up. - Credit to Marner, this was mostly him.
8. Marner shoots the puck from far out, and JT deflects it from the low-slot. - Some credit to Marner, but this was mostly JT.
9. Hainsey makes a nice pass to JT for basically an open net on the PP. - No Marner
10. Marner makes a nice pass across the ice to JT for basically an open net/not a tap-in though. - Mostly Marner here.
11. Rielly with the point-shot and a nice deflection from JT in the circle. - No Marner
12. Marner passes it to JT at the blue-line, JT goes around the net, and goes off the dman and in. - No Marner
13. Marner with a nice break who makes a backhand shot, goalie saves it, Marner passes it back, and JT put it in the net after. - Mostly Marner, not a tap-in
14. JT breaks up a pass at opposing blueline, rushes in on a break and snipes. - No Marner
15. Marner dangles his way to the slot but loses the puck, JT comes in and snipes; goalie was in position. - 50/50 credit
16. Matthews with the pass to an open JT at the side of the net. - Marner made the pass to Matthews, but wasn't the pass to JT here
17. Hyman to Marner to an open JT for the tap-in. - Marner deserves the most praise here, but credit to JT for beating his man to put him in good position.
18. Rielly to JT at the top circle, who snipes on the goalie. - No Marner
19. Marner goes around the net and passes it to JT who puts it past the goalie. - Mostly Marner but not a tap-in
20. Gardiner shoots from the point, and JT with the redirect on his backhand. - No Marner
21. 3 on 1. Matthews to Kadri to JT and puts it in. - No Marner
22. JT cleans up the rebound from a Matthews shot. - Marner made the pass to Matthews but it was a basic PP pass, no credit.
23. Nice play by Marner who fakes going around the net and finds JT on the short side. - Credit to Marner but not a tap-in
24. Gardiner point shot tipped in by JT. - No Marner
25. Marner slap pass to Kadri and pucks goes off JT and in. - I guess credit to Marner, but it was a pretty broken play.
26. Jt breaks up the rush, passes to Marner who passes it back at the top circle who snipes it. - This is mostly JT
27. Rielly point shot tipped in by JT. - No Marner
28. Gardiner shoots it and tipped into the goalie by JT, JT grabs the puck and goes around everyone and puts the puck in. - No Marner
29. Marner backhands a pass to Rielly, who fakes the shot and makes the goalie bite and then feeds JT across. - Marner was involved but this was mostly Rielly.
30. Off the draw Marner makes a 5 foot pass to JT, who one times it in. - Marner made the pass, but this was mostly JT's shot.
31. JT receives a broken pass, takes the puck into the zone and snipes one past the goalie. - No Marner
32. Marner makes a dirty move and finds an open JT at the side of the net. - This was mostly Marner
33. Marner crosses with JT, who feeds a little pass to JT who backhands it top shelf. - 50/50 credit
34. Rielly shot blocked, JT picks up the puck in the slot and snipes it in. - No Marner
35. Muzzin point shot redirected in by JT at the net. - No Marner
36. 5 on 3, Marner makes the open pass to JT in the slot who snipes it in. - Marner made the pass but JT was wide open, and the shot was the best part.
37. Point shot tipped by Marner high. Bounces around, goalie thinks he has it, but JT cleans up. - Broken play, credit to JT but neither did much
38. Hyman make the pass to JT at the blue line, who beats the D and then dekes the goalie before putting it in. - No Marner
39. Marner keeps the puck in and then passes to JT who goes down low, and beats the goalie shortside. - Marner made a nice play to keep it in, but I'd give credit to JT here or 50/50
40. Matthews tried finding JT in the slot, pucks makes it way to him and JT puts it in. - No Marner
41. Nylander goes around the world before shooting it off the crossbar, puck bounces off Eichel before JT taps it in. - No Marner, but a tap-in
42. Marner point shot stopped before JT shoots it between the legs. - 50/50 credit, pretty broken play
43. Hyman makes a nice move before making a backhand pass to JT. - No Marner
44. Rielly shoots the puck off the goalie which creates a rebound to JT who puts it into the net. - No Marner
45. Marner shoots the puck off the goalie after a broken play, JT in the right spot for the open net. - Mostly Marner, but not a tap-in
46. Marner crosses with JT while drop passing to him, JT absolute snipes it. - I'd give more credit to JT because of the shot, but it could go 50/50
47. Rielly point shot that goes to JT, who shoots but gets stopped, gets his own rebound and puts it in. - No Marner

- So there we go.

• So 21 goals, Marner wasn't a factor at all.
• 11 goals I'd give credit to mostly Marner; only about 4-5 goals from Marner to JT I'd say were tap-ins
• 15 goals I'd put into the the Marner was involved but it was mostly JT or it was 50/50 credit.

Please forward this to Paul Marner.

It's been stated before, but it's not a coincidence that Marner's point totals skyrocketed after being united with Tavares.

 

[DanM]

Please forward this to Paul Marner.

It's been stated before, but it's not a coincidence that Marner's point totals skyrocketed after being united with Tavares.

The bolded above is not mentioned enough tbh.

People on HFboards act like Tavares is some 4th line sack of shit that Marner somehow magically tuned into a great player, even some of our own fans talk like this.

JT has a history of making other players great on his lines, and is also one of the very best players in the NHL. Marner 100% benefitted from this.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

We will definitely get to XXX threads

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You just answered your question. Marner may believe he is as good as Matthews, and deserves that contract. To him (or his agent), that's fair market value. Anything less is a discount.

Matthews camp was able to negotiate far above market value. I find it gross as well... but it's an outlier.

Marner's camp refused to negotiate all season. The pie isn't big enough for him to also get paid far above market value.

He'll have to "sacrifice" (lol) by becoming among the richest 0.00001% of society at (gasp) market value. The horror. How will he survive?

 

[ULF_55]

Have you ever told your boss to reduce your salary, compared to your market value? Every company has a budget.

Actually, we've had discussions about reducing our hourly change to avoid layoffs. Even guys with seniority supported that option rather than laying off junior employees.

 

[X66]

Matthews camp was able to negotiate far above market value. I find it gross as well... but it's an outlier.

This is not true.

This narrative needs to end.

 

[Mess]

Here is the contract problem holdup as I see the stalemate.

Dubas: Hey Mitch .... "We before Me, and ignore JT, as team discounts is all I see".

So support me !!!

vs

Marner: Hey Kyle .... "Auston and Me, & Johnny make 3, at the top of the Leafs salary tree".

So pay me !!!

 

[ULF_55]

How about primary points/60?

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...er=gamesPlayed,gte,40&sort=pointsPer60Minutes

P/60

Marner - 3.47
Matthews - 3.47

G/60

Marner - 0.96
Matthews - 1.76

 

[PromisedLand]

Actually, we've had discussions about reducing our hourly change to avoid layoffs. Even guys with seniority supported that option rather than laying off junior employees.

But in your example the reduction is applied to everyone equally; its not like you are singling out one person to take the reduction while giving other employee an increase