Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVII (continued)

[Notsince67]

why far better?
we have no idea if marner outperforms aho playing with AHOs linemates

Really? Is this what we have come to?

 

[Blueboy]

3 x 8.6

Or

6 x 10.5

Are my best guesses

I’d much rather the 6 yr deal

 

[Kiwi]

yeah it's a bit of an overpay but our cap situation is so good and marner is such a good fit on and off the ice that he's a guy i wouldn't nickel and dime to harshly.

but Marner has been far more productive than Aho and it's not all that close, really.

ELC

Marner: ES 2.39p/60, 1.94p1/60 --- PP 6.94p/60, 4.63p1/60
Aho: ES 1.99p/60, 1.55p1/60 -------- PP 5.30p/60, 3.56p160
Willy: ES 2.11p/60, 1.56p160 -------- PP 5.93p/60, 4.92p1/60

The problem with that thinking Zeke is that in a hard cap league if you are overpaying for your talent, eventually other teams will amass more talent than you with the extra cap space they have accrued since they aren't overpaying there guys like we are

I wouldn't let Marner walk over 1M either but you do have to be careful with that line of thinking, we've already done that with Matthews and Nylander (to a lesser extent) already so that does add up very quickly

I think Marner is better but I don't think it's that significant, Aho was PPG, lead his team through a long playoff run and he was the franchise center that wingers were attached to, at his age that's bloody amazing

 

[zeke]

The problem with that thinking Zeke is that in a hard cap league if you are overpaying for your talent, eventually other teams will amass more talent than you with the extra cap space they have accrued since they aren't overpaying there guys like we are

I wouldn't let Marner walk over 1M either but you do have to be careful with that line of thinking, we've already done that with Matthews and Nylander (to a lesser extent) already so that does add up very quickly

I think Marner is better but I don't think it's that significant, Aho was PPG, lead his team through a long playoff run and he was the franchise center that wingers were attached to, at his age that's bloody amazing

no doubt.

I'm just so damn pleased with our entire cap situation right now that a tiny (<$1m) overpay on one of our elite youngsters won't break my heart, especially since i can't wait to have the closure of him finally signing on the dotted line.

I'm still riding the high of Dubas ditching the marleau and zaitsev contracts so easily, tbh.

 

[Kiwi]

no doubt.

I'm just so damn pleased with our entire cap situation right now that a tiny (<$1m) overpay on one of our elite youngsters won't break my heart, especially since i can't wait to have the closure of him finally signing on the dotted line.

I'm still riding the high of Dubas ditching the marleau and zaitsev contracts so easily, tbh.

I'd agree with you on that, Dubas did some nice work over the summer cleaning up the contract situation

If Ceci isn't a complete tyre fire and Marner signs something around 10M×6 (that's definitely a best case) I'd consider this one of the finest Leafs off-seasons in living memory

 

[HolyCrap]

• we just gave a team a 1st to take Marleau
• we traded Kadri for a guy that's a UFA next summer
• we traded a lot for Muzzin who is a UFA next summer
• Matthews is on a 5 year deal

Leafs are going to cave soon or Dubas should be fired at season start

Hahahahaha

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Really? Is this what we have come to?

People are just being consistent. This is what others were saying with Nylander vs Pastrnak and Matthews vs other 15% of the cap players.

Aho was arguably better than Marner last year (depends if one considers goals more valuable than points or not) playing with Teravainen as opposed to Jonathon f***ing Tavares.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

The problem with that thinking Zeke is that in a hard cap league if you are overpaying for your talent, eventually other teams will amass more talent than you with the extra cap space they have accrued since they aren't overpaying there guys like we are

I wouldn't let Marner walk over 1M either but you do have to be careful with that line of thinking, we've already done that with Matthews and Nylander (to a lesser extent) already so that does add up very quickly

I think Marner is better but I don't think it's that significant, Aho was PPG, lead his team through a long playoff run and he was the franchise center that wingers were attached to, at his age that's bloody amazing

If the leaf players had far better real stats and far worse advanced stats than comparables, make no mistake that people like Zeke would only be talking about real stats.

They've dug through just about everything there is to find advanced stats that rationalize leaf overpayments based on real stats.s And that's what they're clinging to.

 

[hullsy47]

Really? Is this what we have come to?

well aho accepted 8.5 marner isnt 3 mill better
that's what it comes down to

 

[ULF_55]

yeah it's a bit of an overpay but our cap situation is so good and marner is such a good fit on and off the ice that he's a guy i wouldn't nickel and dime to harshly.

but Marner has been far more productive than Aho and it's not all that close, really.

ELC

Marner: ES 2.39p/60, 1.94p1/60 --- PP 6.94p/60, 4.63p1/60
Aho: ES 1.99p/60, 1.55p1/60 -------- PP 5.30p/60, 3.56p160
Willy: ES 2.11p/60, 1.56p160 -------- PP 5.93p/60, 4.92p1/60

Over the past 2 seasons:

Rantanen 60 goals, 171 points (155 games )
Marner 48 goals, 163 points (164 games)

 

[Jozay]

Over the past 2 seasons:

Rantanen 60 goals, 171 points (164 games )
Marner 48 goals, 163 points (155 games)

Marner has played 164 games and Rantanen has played 155 games.

 

[ULF_55]

Marner has played 164 games and Rantanen has played 155 games.

Yeah, I had them opposite, ...

 

[zeke]

Over the past 2 seasons:

Rantanen 60 goals, 171 points (155 games )
Marner 48 goals, 163 points (164 games)

Marner: ES 2.46p/60, 2.06p1/60 --- PP 7.11p/60, 4.79p1/60
Rantanen: ES 2.17p/60, 1.48p1/60 -- PP 6.87p/60, 5.12p1/60

I kinda feel bad for the avalanche here - they're gonna be forced to overpay Rantanen by a lot simply becase they gave handed him so much damn ice time. Marner is much, much more productive than Rants. Younger, too.

Well, I feel bad for them until I remember what a steal they lucked into with Mackinnon's deal, then I don't feel bad anymore.

 

[LeafSteel]

I think Dubas is going to wait out the other RFA’s and make a final offer, making him sit if necessary.

Nylander was a learning experience. We didn’t get our money’s worth last season and burned a year off the new contract.

I can see Dubas sitting Marner out before he let’s him try to come in December. Once the other RFA’s start to sign, and none of them coming near $11m, I can see Marner caving quickly. They clearly are misreading the market and the lack of offer sheets are a clear indicator that Marner’s contract demands are out of whack.

I have no issues with a hearty serving of humble pie coming with his next contract.

 

[ULF_55]

Marner: ES 2.46p/60, 2.06p1/60 --- PP 7.11p/60, 4.79p1/60
Rantanen: ES 2.17p/60, 1.48p1/60 -- PP 6.87p/60, 5.12p1/60

I kinda feel bad for the avalanche here - they're gonna be forced to overpay Rantanen by a lot simply becase they gave handed him so much damn ice time. Marner is much, much more productive than Rants. Younger, too.

Well, I feel bad for them until I remember what a steal they lucked into with Mackinnon's deal, then I don't feel bad anymore.

How about Goals per 60?

 

[zeke]

How about Goals per 60?

Marner: ES .79 / PP 1.55
Rants: ES .64 / PP 2.87

 

[ToneDog]

Personally I do not care too much about ES vs PP points. When they hand out the Rocket Richard and Art Ross, there is no mention of ES or PP goals and assists.

 

[Kiwi]

Personally I do not care too much about ES vs PP points. When they hand out the Rocket Richard and Art Ross, there is no mention of ES or PP goals and assists.

I'm with you on that, I don't care how you get points as long as you get them
Making your teammates better and driving a line is a nice bonus as well

 

[hfman]

you mean to say that Morener STILL hasn't signed yet?

what in the heavens is going on

 

[Marshy]

you mean to say that Morener STILL hasn't signed yet?

what in the heavens is going on

Big list of RFAs still unsigned. Seems nobody wants to go first.

 

[Notsince67]

you mean to say that Morener STILL hasn't signed yet?

what in the heavens is going on

He told Ferris to show me the money

 

[hfman]

Big list of RFAs still unsigned. Seems nobody wants to go first.

oh the greed


greed is evil


10 million isn't good enough, it's gotta be 11


it's sickening when you get right down to it


why oh why do we support this

 

[Marshy]

Player agents ruined sports. You wanna know why 1M more a year makes a difference on a 50-60M contract? Bigger commission for Ferris and his ilk. There is no "for the love of the game" for them.

Nope. It's all about the Hamiltons baby.

 

[Dough72]

Personally I do not care too much about ES vs PP points. When they hand out the Rocket Richard and Art Ross, there is no mention of ES or PP goals and assists.

I think Even-Strength is more valuable because it's a lot easier to replace a guy's production on your Power-Play. For eg I bet there are tons of unheralded players who are just as useful as Auston Matthews on a PP. He doesn't seem to process things quickly enough to be a PP guy he's more of a methodical kind of player. We might have someone better at it in Kerfoot by the sounds of it and he was just a trade throw-in. Also wouldn't be surprised if Johnsson proves to be more useful at it thanks to his quick one-timers from out front which I assume Matthews can't do as well in practice otherwise he'd probably have taken that role ages ago but instead johnsson and kadri took it.

 

[ToneDog]

I think Even-Strength is more valuable because it's a lot easier to replace a guy's production on your Power-Play. For eg I bet there are tons of unheralded players who are just as useful as Auston Matthews on a PP. He doesn't seem to process things quickly enough to be a PP guy he's more of a methodical kind of player. We might have someone better at it in Kerfoot by the sounds of it and he was just a trade throw-in. Also wouldn't be surprised if Johnsson proves to be more useful at it thanks to his quick one-timers from out front which I assume Matthews can't do as well in practice otherwise he'd probably have taken that role ages ago but instead johnsson and kadri took it.

Get what you are saying but I doubt it. Kadri for example was terrible on the PP last year as were the players on our #2 PP.